Another day, another school shooting

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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I'm not sure any reasonable person thinks that's even possible. As far as your recommendations, they'd be nice, but it's 2014 and we seem to be getting worse at all that.

You should stop watching the "news" and start looking at the actual data then. We are not getting worse. In fact, we are getting better. The number of gun murders has been on the decline for a long while. We are around 1/3rd of what we were in the early 80s.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,544
924
126
Gun murders are made easier by ready availability of guns, sure. In Switzerland where basically everyone has guns, gun violence is disproportionately high relative to places like the UK as well. Murder on a whole in Switzerland, however, is still comparable to the rest of Western and Northern Europe. Europe doesn't have gang issues like the USA does, which are thanks to another case of failed government bans, the war on drugs.

EDIT: Per Wikipedia, firearm homicides in Switzerland are 10 times that of those in the UK. In spite of that, their murder rate is about half that of the UK.

By the way, guns are far more regulated in Switzerland than they are in the United States.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
The above sounds correct. People will always be people and people will always kill, have issues, etc etc. But the gun problems in this country is because of guns. We can't face that, admit to it, accept it, and sure as hell won't do anything about it.
That said, I will be buying a hand gun in the near future. Call me the problem, that's fine. At least I admit it. I also accept that we are stuck in this shit pot for a good long while. Might as well enjoy those guns.

I own a number of firearms, none of which have killed a single person while in my possession.

Now I can't speak to whether or not which, if any, of my rifles have killed anyone at the direction of a foreign government. But mine are quite peaceful.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
You should stop watching the "news" and start looking at the actual data then. We are not getting worse. In fact, we are getting better. The number of gun murders has been on the decline for a long while. We are around 1/3rd of what we were in the early 80s.

Facts have a factual bias.

"Liberals" are only interested in facts when it suits them.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Liberals:

but but the constitution, but but the courts.

oh wait, guns? fuck the constitution.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Do you put liberals in quotes because you don't mean actual liberals? Just liberals in name only?

A put it in quote because American "liberals" are not really liberal. They're quite authoritarian, they just want to control you in different ways than "conservatives", who are in quotes because they aren't really trying to conserve anything.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,953
1,264
126


It's clear there is a correlation between gun ownership rates and gun related deaths.

Of course there are other factors at play here. Poverty and mental health screening being other key factors, but the link is undeniable. People that suggest otherwise are just lying through their hillbilly teeth.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,953
1,264
126
But don't worry guys, gun proof mats will protect your kids...



If it wasn't so tragic you could make a comedy sketch out of it.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
I don't believe this is accurate. It would take a while, but if they shut down all private gun and ammunition sales of everything but long barreled hunting rifles in this country and executed gun buybacks with amnesty periods for complying, I think you would see a marked decline in gun violence within 10 or so years, particularly as ammunition became scarce. Criminals might find it's worth more to them to turn their guns in. Hell, give them drugs in exchange for all I care. The sad thing is that so many people would read what I just wrote and call it crazy, even though we are the only developed country in the world with a major gun violence problem. There is nothing uniquely American about it. The only thing unique is the sheer number of firearms available here and the ease of obtaining them.

Right. My best deer rifle is a carbine. It fires .44 Magnums and was made by Ruger in 1964. Been in my family for years. So you want to take away my right to use a rifle to deer hunt that has been used in my family since 1964 to do so?

That is the problem with gun grabbers like you. You know practically nothing about firearms or firearm owners to make any reasonable debate in regard to what you perceive as a gun issue in the country.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
106
You should stop watching the "news" and start looking at the actual data then. We are not getting worse. In fact, we are getting better. The number of gun murders has been on the decline for a long while. We are around 1/3rd of what we were in the early 80s.

Agreed.

I would posit that gun murders are down because law-abiding citizens are carrying more, hence, discouraging brazen killers.

I don't think the gun murder rate is down because people are deciding to be less murderous -- the no resistance opportunities aren't there anymore, in my opinion.

So I wouldn't say we're "improving"...I'd say opportunities aren't readily available like they used to be.

Don't have an issue being wrong on that, though.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
People always look at me in a weird way when I tell them that I love living in Asia. Also, when I tell them the quality of life is better in Asia they usually scoff at my statement.

Leaving China out of the picture when was the last time a school in Asia was attacked by underage gunman/men? Never! Case closed. I don't care if it only happens once a year. This type of sh*t should never happen in a civilized society. NEVER!!

I left China out because they had a knife wielding maniac last year attack a grade school. Also, the smog is awful so obviously the quality of life isn't that great.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
Agreed.

I would posit that gun murders are down because law-abiding citizens are carrying more, hence, discouraging brazen killers.

I don't think the gun murder rate is down because people are deciding to be less murderous -- the no resistance opportunities aren't there anymore, in my opinion.

So I wouldn't say we're "improving"...I'd say opportunities aren't readily available like they used to be.

Don't have an issue being wrong on that, though.

It shouldn't happen at all. One time is too many.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
Agreed.

I would posit that gun murders are down because law-abiding citizens are carrying more, hence, discouraging brazen killers.

I would say that petty crimes might have gone down because citizens are carrying more. We don't know though. We need 10-20 years of comprehensive research and we aren't at that point yet.

When we are talking about mass murders I think they just don't care. Most kill themselves at the end anyway. If people were carrying guns in California would it have deterred Elliot Rodger? Doubt it.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Right. My best deer rifle is a carbine. It fires .44 Magnums and was made by Ruger in 1964. Been in my family for years. So you want to take away my right to use a rifle to deer hunt that has been used in my family since 1964 to do so?

That is the problem with gun grabbers like you. You know practically nothing about firearms or firearm owners to make any reasonable debate in regard to what you perceive as a gun issue in the country.

You have no right to own high powered military weapons.

/mind if the liberal
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126


It's clear there is a correlation between gun ownership rates and gun related deaths.

Of course there are other factors at play here. Poverty and mental health screening being other key factors, but the link is undeniable. People that suggest otherwise are just lying through their hillbilly teeth.

Now look at gun ownership rates between states and gun related deaths and tell me if the comparison still holds up.
 
Last edited:

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
It's clear there is a correlation between gun ownership rates and gun related deaths.

Yes, the correlation is that the more a country restrict guns, the more they under-report gun violence as to not shine a light on the failure of their policies.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,259
16,580
136
Yes, the correlation is that the more a country restrict guns, the more they under-report gun violence as to not shine a light on the failure of their policies.

Well that's what you tell yourself so you can ignore the facts!
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
I've about had enough of these. It's a pathetic statement about our country when this is now the norm.
To quote John Oliver
"One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns."

Police: Injuries reported in Oregon high school shooting

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/10/justice/oregon-high-school-shooting/index.html

We need to wake up, realize something needs to be done, and fucking do it.
These gun nutters obsessions need to take a back seat to common sense once and for all

Dumbass, a gun didn't commit the crime. Legislating it to next to impossible to go get a firearm tomorrow will do absolutely nothing to stop stop this. Take your bullshit emo driven garbage and shove it.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Something should be done, but banning guns isn't it. We need to enact a culture change. Stop plastering these fucktards who shoot up schools on the news 24/7. I can't name a single person killed in a school shooting, but I sure can name quite a few school shooters.

Perhaps, we should stop making them martyrs for the "oppressed". Perhaps, we should work to combat poverty and the illegal drug trade. Perhaps, we should do something to stop kids from needing to join gangs to get a sense of community and family. Perhaps, we should hold parents accountable for them not raising their children better. Gross criminal negligence resulting in a homicide sounds like something I'd get behind.

But, none of that is easy and involves blaming ourselves for being the problem. Much easier, and more popular, to just blame guns.

+1

/thread
 
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