Another Philips Accoustic Edge Review...

[OneOfTheseDays]

Look none of these soundcards can top the live in terms of overall package. The live offers great sound, GREAT PERFORMANCE, and GREAT COMPATIBLITY. Now you tell me what sound card other than the live can offer all of these things. The santa cruz can EMULATE EAX but it just doens't sound the same. Also the performance hit with all other cards other than the live is just plain awful. The phillips card takes an enormous hit that makes it unappealing to gamers.

 

[Insane3D]

"The phillips card takes an enormous hit that makes it unappealing to gamers"

Huge peformance hit? In todays world of 1ghz+ cpu's, 5% is nothing. This is the first drivers for a brand new card with a brand new sound engine, and Philips has already stated that this is something that will be adressed in new drivers. Also, if the Live or Santa Cruz did some of these effects that the Phillips do, it would be much higher for those cards. The Tbird DSP is designed to offload almost all sound from the CPU, and even has a back up engine to cover when it doesn't. To quote the review I posted...


"(up to 5% of the CPU, vs. 0.5-2.5% on the other cards). Philips intends on continuing to optimize drivers, but 5% CPU usage is actually quite good, when considering that on the multi speaker tests the QMSS was actually in effect."

"This audio accelerator can process 256 sounds simultaneously and actually offloads digital mixing and Directsound processing from your CPU. This becomes important when you consider that the card has some sophisticated features that would otherwise put added stress on your system. As it is, many of the card?s special processing features are ?free?. The chip can also process 96 streams of 3D accelerated audio including positional reverb, so it is a fairly powerful and full featured DSP chip. "

Considering this card actually creates distinct 6 channel output when all other 5.1 cards just duplicate the ouput of the front channels to the extra speakers, I can deal with a measly 5% CPU usage. I haven't noticed any slow down in games and it sounds way better.

 

[holdencommodore]

I have a Aztech PCI368-DSP soundcard. It has the Philips/QSound ThunderBird Q3D DSP. It is the same as the new Philips Seismic Edge (4 Speaker). The DSP is not new - been around since 1998 (only now getting the recognition it deserves).
Even this card is great! I love the QMSS feature that this card has. Everything is turned into beautiful surround sound - DVD's, CD's, MP3's, hell - even MIDI sounds great!!
Only trouble was with Aztech - they were SO scarce with Driver updates....maybe I will get newer ones from Philips!!
If the ThunderBird Q3D is anything to go by, then the TBird Avenger will excell in way. I just wish Philips would sell the s/c in Australia instead of America only!!

 

[Wingznut]

Well first of all, EAX sucks in gaming. And also, the Santa Cruz does EAX better than the Live!. It's not so overwhelming of an effect, as it is on the Live!.

Second, I'm not saying that the Live! isn't a perfectly competant card. It's a fine card. It's just that it does nothing exceptionally well.

Compatibility? Does it cover all audio API's, like the Philips and the Santa Cruz do?

Hey SA... Don't take this personally, but if you haven't experienced each of the cards first hand, then you really can't compare them.

 

[LXi]

<<Well first of all, EAX sucks in gaming. And also, the Santa Cruz does EAX better than the Live!. It's not so overwhelming of an effect, as it is on the Live!.>>

How do you define &quot;sucks&quot; for gaming? 3D positioning? Special effects? CPU usage? Or what? Live! does EAX naturally and I fail to see how an emulated EAX can sound better than the original. Thats like saying playing with Bleem! is better than PSX. Yes I agree its not very good at 3D positioning, but the board was never meant to do that, its meant to do &quot;Environmental&quot; sounds, I dont see how you can blast them for doing what they're suppose to do. CPU usage is among the lowest, just as low or lower than Santa Cruz and Acoustic Edge.


<<Second, I'm not saying that the Live! isn't a perfectly competant card. It's a fine card. It's just that it does nothing exceptionally well.>>

Again, we recommend it because it suits everyone well, it does not do anything exceptionally well, but it does what everyone needs.


<<Compatibility? Does it cover all audio API's, like the Philips and the Santa Cruz do?>>

Do you understand the word compatibility? No it has nothing to do with APIs. We recommend Live! because its compatible with virtually all hardware, software, and operating systems. It is the least troublefree soundcard there is, the drivers are the most complete, and it will work right out of the box with Windows 9x, Windows NT and Windows 2K. The compatibility is so far unsurpassed. Thats what we mean by compatibility.

Finally, get off your high horse, just because your soundcard has a little bit more features doesnt mean that the Live! series is overrated.

 

[Possum]

Just want to criticize your choice of example for the analogy
Bleem! can be better than PSX (e.g. Tekken 3 and other games with 3D rendering, if they're supported by Bleem!).

 

[LXi]

Oh yea? Try Final Fantasy 8. Boom! Your battle menus are gone with 3D rendering turned on.

 

[joeryu]

hmm, i've had within the last year have gone through practically every type of major sound card chipsets out there, including:

SoundBlaster 128 PCI
SoundBlaster Live! Value
Aureal Vortex2 SQ2500 SPDIF out
SoundBlaster Live! Platinum
Diamond Monster Sound MX400
Guillemot Maxi Sound Fortissimo
Aureal Vortex2 SQ2500 Optical out
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz

So far, i say the best cards COMPATIBILITY wise were the SB 128 PCI, and the Santa Cruz. The Live! had bunch of problems with my old kx133 chipset with IRQ's and crap. So did the MX400, and the votex2 cards. Fortissimo didnt like Win2K when i tried it when it first came out, dont know about it now. I personally like the Santa Cruz the best becuase of all its features, which surpasses the Live! hands down. Dont get me wrong though, the Live! is a great card, its just getting outdated. What can you expect from a sound card thats been out a couple of years now. I really like my Santa Cruz now, but Im switching to the Acoustic Edge this week. I have heard nothing but praise for it and it looks like a winner.

 

[Possum]

Come on, just read every word I wrote. I worded it meticulously so you wouldn't have to do that &quot;oh yeah?&quot; thing. The key in my sentence is the words &quot;can be better.&quot;

 

[LXi]

Can be? Some games, maybe, but emulations can never be 100% correct. Some games may look slightly better, but there are a lot more games that dont even work right with Bleem!.

 

[Techno]

LoL... I love listening to LXi...... He always gives me a reason to recommend Birth Control.

 

[Wingznut]

I own no horse, let alone a &quot;high&quot; one. It's just my opinion, and I am very much entitled to it. I don't give much of a rat's @ss what hardware other people buy, and I have no &quot;agenda&quot; behind my opinion.

As I stated before, why I prefer the SC's EAX over the Live!'s is because it's not overwhelming. And yeah, the Live!'s 3d positional is horrid. You turn your back to a sound, and it simply disappears (in many cases.) Whether or not they intended to provide at least acceptable positional audio is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that it sucks.

If I had the choice between a sound card that does everything &quot;ok&quot;, versus one that does many things very well with no comprimises... Well, it's a no-brainer.

Look... Enjoy your Live!. And please don't be threatened (or upset, or whatever) just because I don't share the same views on it.

 

[Becks2k]

Does anyone know if in win2k the philips card has spdif out?

 

[Insane3D]

&quot;Does anyone know if in win2k the philips card has spdif out?&quot;

Yes. I am running my AE in Win2K and I use the spdif in for my H+ card. The Spdif out works fine as well.

 

[ElFenix]

but which card is going to make music (CDs and MP3s, mostly) sound better than my vortex2? thats the only question i want answered. i only have a 2.1 speaker setup (ACS-48s, still the best altec ever made) and my computer is in a bad position, acoustically (next to a window so the left reflects a lot while the right disapates out into the room).

 

[LXi]

Techno:

Feeling bad that I dont appreciate your Santa Cruz zealotry? I pity you.

Techno's moto, &quot;If you dont have arguments, use personal attacks instead!&quot;, way to go dude!


Wingznut PEZ:

If you dont care, stop your &quot;Live! overrated&quot; propaganda and try not to get into people's way of choosing a soundcard. Live! is popular for a reason and I see little complaints about them, stop sounding like whoever bought Live! is a dumbass.

 

[holdencommodore]

QMSS rules!!!
It is great for all sound sources. In my opinion it (QMSS) sounds sweeter than the Live. But then again, the Live may have other advantages.....you really need to test both to see which one is right for you. Sound is a very personal thing.

 

[ElFenix]

i guess i should &quot;rent&quot; a couple different cards from best buy. maybe audition some new speakers while i'm at it.

 

[Insane3D]

There is one reason, in my opinion, why the AE is better than the Live or Santa Cruz. The Live 5.1 and the Santa Cruz, to my knowledge, take the right and left channels and just duplicate them for the remaining channels. For instance, the Live will take the information for the front and left front channels and just duplicate the output to the rears and center. The Santa Cruz does the same I believe. The AE actually puts different distinct parts of the audio stream to the different speaker channels using QMSS technology. The difference is amazing in my opinion, and it can not be appreciated without experiencing it. When I had my Live, if I put my ear to the front left or right channel and then listened to the rear left or right channel, I heard the exact same thing. The AE is much different. The sounds soming from the rear channels are different than those coming out of the front channels. The QMSS algorythms actually pick what information to send to the rear, front, and center/sub channels. It also does a far superior job at positioning than the Live, but I can't speak for the SC because I have never had one. Overall, I have been very happy with this card, and I have found myself listening to music and watching movies I haven't used in awhile just to hear the difference with QMSS. The Live is a great card, don't get me wrong, but it has really been essentially unchanged for awhile now due to lack of competition. The new 5.1's don't really do much different than the original Live did, with the exception of the handy Live drive. My point is that a &quot;new&quot; technology has come along in AE, and it just performs better than the competing cards for the same $$$. This reason alone should be a good reason to give it a try. Just my .02.

 

[Techno]

Was that a personal attack?? I was just being honest!

I have a &quot;what if&quot; question. Lets say Anandtech Reviewed the Santa Cruz and AE... and they rated them better then the SBlive.... are you then going to say they don't know what there talking about like the others that already have them and swear they are better or is it going to finally click in?

Also, you keep doing something very irratating... you keep saying i haven't given you any examples to how the SC is better... Why not do a search for all the SC treads... i seem to remember me posting a 1-16 on why i thought the SC was better then the SB... you should look it up some time...

BTW, just wondering is your motto &quot;Loser eXpressing Ignorance?&quot;

I count about 30+ (i'd figure out the real number but, even i have better things to do) people on Anandtech that has a new &quot;alternative&quot; sound card each one saying it is better then the live (even over 20 reviews that say it to boot) and yet it doesn't click in.

 

[holdencommodore]

Insane3d: I think QMSS is cool too. I love the way is seperates the sounds into different speakers. QSound are true masters in the sound industry, and so they should - they have been around for a while. I just hope Philips don't ruin it and include a driver update page.

 

[LXi]

<<I have a &quot;what if&quot; question. Lets say Anandtech Reviewed the Santa Cruz and AE... and they rated them better then the SBlive.... are you then going to say they don't know what there talking about like the others that already have them and swear they are better or is it going to finally click in?>>

Oh please, dont put words into my mouth that I never said. Have I ever denied the Santa Cruz and AE being better than SB Live! NO! All I was trying to do is defending the SBLive! against people like you and Wingznut PEZ who disses such a outstanding product into dipshit.


<<Also, you keep doing something very irratating... you keep saying i haven't given you any examples to how the SC is better... Why not do a search for all the SC treads... i seem to remember me posting a 1-16 on why i thought the SC was better then the SB... you should look it up some time...>>

I read it, wasnt convincing enough to throw my Live! away in favor of the SC. I recommend SBLive! for my reasons, and you recommend your SC for your reasons. Lets not play mind games such as the &quot;Live! overrated&quot; propaganda.


<<BTW, just wondering is your motto &quot;Loser eXpressing Ignorance?&quot;>>

That is totally irrelevent, first of all I didnt come in here as a loser, second there is no ignorance in what Im entitled of.

 

[Becks2k]

No, I'm wondering if it can output DD in win2k. I have a sblive and the spdif out works, but you can't output DD encoded out the spdif.

 

[Insane3D]

Becks2K:


I don't have any DD devices near enough to hook up and test it. I think you are right though, I believe Win2K does not support AC3/DTS encoding. I may be wrong though. If I find anyone else using the card I will ask for you.

 

[Conroy9]

i have a complaint about the sblive..

i use a line-in, cdaudio in, and a microphone.. only the one that's selected as the recording device will play!
i.e. when i use the mic to talk to someone, the cd and line-in will be muted, etc.
The only way to work around this was to mess with the &quot;digital output only&quot; switch which made no sense to me

and from what i read somewhere else, the 5.1 cards still have this problem
does anybody know if the philips or santa cruz also have this problem???

Conroy