AP: Elisabeth Smart Found Alive

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Millennium
Since this thread is already sidetracked...

Just a little bit...

Hopper if you think brainwashing is an excuse to commit a crime then a lot of terrorists should go free. Many of them have been brainwashed(just like Patty Hearst) and some were brainwashed without volunteering.

How many of them were just sitting at home, watching TV and doing homework when their door was knocked down, automatic weapons fire sprayed into their apartment, and were smashed in the fact with the buttstock of an assualt rifle, then thrown into the trunk of a car and brainwashed for months?

If any terrorist has that happen to them, then I'm prepared to absolve them of their crimes as well.

You are on a slippery slope when you think brainwashing absolves someone from the crimes they commit.

Depends on what you call "brainwashing".

"When you are under the power and influence of another person to the point where you no longer have free will, you're simply not responsible because you have been brainwashed by someone else to the point where you simply obey them without question."

Yes, I said that...

The hijackers on 9/11 did what they did by choice, for personal reward. Their familes were given money and they believed they were going to heaven to be with 72 virgins.

You don't think terrorists are the same? Especially those who were FORCED into joining.

How many terrorists are "forced" to join?

From what I have read about Hamas for example, they only take the willing to be sucide bombers. They wait for people to come to them, they don't try and talk anyone into it.

: ) Hopper

 

[weezergirl]

oh please, you're comparing terrorists to a 15 YEAR OLD KID?!?!!?

give this girl a break. no matter what part she played in this she was A FREAKING KID. i honestly don't think she planned this but even if she did, it doesn't matter to me.

why don't you guys just wait a few days and then hear all the facts? she was just found yesterday and everybody is frantically wanting the whole story and in some cases making up their own weird wacked out theories. just have some patience geez. yes a spoiled 15 year old girl devised this godawful plan with a homeless guy who scares me with just his picture and tells him she wants to him to fake a kidnap so she can run away with him and be married to him. ok guys! let's just think with our heads just a little bit k?

yes, the story is weird. but brainwashing happens ALL the time. look at all the cults there are. but in this case, it's a little kid..who is prolly even easier to brainwash. i'm not surprised she is spewing out all those weird verses or whatever. but anyway, i think we should wait on the facts, or at least if u are gonna come up with your own theory make it just ALITTLE BIT PLAUSIBLE. please...its' rediculous some of the stuff said in here.

 

[LeStEr]

Originally posted by: Jmman
AMAZING!! What a miracle!!

Indeed!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: weezergirl
oh please, you're comparing terrorists to a 15 YEAR OLD KID?!?!!?

give this girl a break. no matter what part she played in this she was A FREAKING KID. i honestly don't think she planned this but even if she did, it doesn't matter to me.

why don't you guys just wait a few days and then hear all the facts? she was just found yesterday and everybody is frantically wanting the whole story and in some cases making up their own weird wacked out theories. just have some patience geez. yes a spoiled 15 year old girl devised this godawful plan with a homeless guy who scares me with just his picture and tells him she wants to him to fake a kidnap so she can run away with him and be married to him. ok guys! let's just think with our heads just a little bit k?

yes, the story is weird. but brainwashing happens ALL the time. look at all the cults there are. but in this case, it's a little kid..who is prolly even easier to brainwash. i'm not surprised she is spewing out all those weird verses or whatever. but anyway, i think we should wait on the facts, or at least if u are gonna come up with your own theory make it just ALITTLE BIT PLAUSIBLE. please...its' rediculous some of the stuff said in here.

Elizabeth Smart was NEVER compared to terrorists in this thread. I suggest you go back and read the whole line of arguments between Grasshopper and I before you jump to such a conclusion. We were talking about Stockholm Syndrome and whether it absolves you from criminal liability in the case of Patty Hearst. The only reason the thread was sidetracked to Patty Hearst was because both were kidnapped and exhibit signs of Stockholm Syndrome. I highly suggest you read a whole thread next time before you jump down someones throat.

Yes, the words terrorists were used in this thread. What do you think the SLA were? If you are bitching about people WAITING on the facts, I suggest you reread several of the last fifteen posts. Alienwho and I have been saying that people need to see the facts before jumping to a conclusion of what transpired. Take some of your own advice and reread the thread before you fall off your soapbox and injure yourself.

*sigh*

 

[rahvin]

Good post...didn't really think of it that way. When I think of 14 year old girl I think of loud mouth bratty "wannabe independant" I'll do what I want when I want kind of attitude.

The attitude you speak of is often unheard of in Devout mormon families of wealth. I grew up in a fairly wealthy mormon dominated area and I can tell you the kids are generally not bratty, they are EXTREMELY innocent and naive. At 14 she would have been extremely easy to maniuplate emotionaly.

 

[Storm]

After reading more posts by Hopper, I'm a little worried about your emotional state. You most definitely wear your heart on your sleeve. You get extremely emotional about this sort of thing. I can't imagine if you and Thumper had children and something bad were to happen to one of them. You would literally go fvcking nuts and off the deep end. You might end up in jail after killing him. You need to chill and not get so emotionally attached man. I do think its normal for people to get angry about this sort of thing but I'm getting a vibe from you that you're getting too attached to it almost vigilante style.

The basic facts are good enough for you and many others. I personally would like to hear as many factual details as possible relevant to the case. Now I do not think that making public any type sexual misconduct that she might have been exposed to will be a good idea for her. It certainly may help explain the motives of her captors but it will scar her mentally even more.

The news media today works on sensationalism, because our society has been totally desensitized by whatever is on tv. The only way to get our attention is to continually try to force-feed the same news story over and over. That way it might just get our attention. Whether or not she've been sexually molested or raped, the news media will most certainly be re-visiting her story in 10-15 years who knows. Why? Because we've been bombarded about the story. Yes this bombardment has aided in catching Brian David Mitchell and his wife. By getting our attention now, chances are they will have our attention when they revisit this her story.

Sadly I do not think it will be possible to bar the media from getting a story it wants. The higher powers at the various news networks knows her story is going to equal ratings and more people viewing their news network. Its just not possible to totally bar the media from getting a story it wants. No freaking way, not even with the connections that the Smart family has. Some idiot will in fact leak more stuff out for their own exposure and for the American dollar.

Simply it sucks either way .

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Storm
After reading more posts by Hopper, I'm a little worried about your emotional state.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not... I'm glad that people care about me, not so glad that I've given this impression.

You most definitely wear your heart on your sleeve.

Funny you should put it that way. Thumper said the exact same thing to me yesterday when we were talking about Elisabeth. It is very true...

You get extremely emotional about this sort of thing.

That's putting it mildly...

I can't imagine if you and Thumper had children and something bad were to happen to one of them. You would literally go fvcking nuts and off the deep end.

It turns my stomach to even think about it... Thumper and I have talked about kids a lot in the past few months, and we want to have maybe 4 kids over the next 7 to 10 years.

I can't even imagine the pain of losing a child, I can try, but I have a feeling that I have no clue really...

Horrible, just horrible...

You might end up in jail after killing him.

That might very well happen, but if I have a family and kids, it wouldn't serve them to go to prison over killing that scumbag. Why give him that last bit of power over me?

l could live with life in pound-me-in-the-ass-prison for the slimeball who hurt my child, but you're right, I would prefer to kill him myself.

: ) Hopper

 

[Storm]

Originally posted by: Grasshopper27

Originally posted by: Storm
After reading more posts by Hopper, I'm a little worried about your emotional state.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not... I'm glad that people care about me, not so glad that I've given this impression.

: ) Hopper

"Worried" in the sense you can give people the impression of how you are and your mindset.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Storm
"Worried" in the sense you can give people the impression of how you are and your mindset.

Oh...

I'm really one of the nicest, sweetest, men you'll ever meet. I have a heart of gold the size of the Titanic, I do all those wonderful sweet things women love, I don't do too many stupid guy things, and I'm a family guy...

: ) Hopper