Apple needs to revamp iCloud

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
I don't feel that iCloud is all it's cracked up to be. Case in point: my buddy just asked me to do file recovery (which was unsuccessful) on his iPhone 4S. The story: He saw an update available (iOS 8), downloaded & installed it, and halfway through the installation, it had a fatal error & crashed. It started back up again, but said that it had to be setup as a new phone since it crashed during the upgrade. Long story short, it lost all his stuff - contacts, photos, everything. iCloud had nothing for him, which turned the story from bad to worse.

He is not a technical user - all he did was see an update & run it. He doesn't plug it in on a regular basis to back it up to iTunes (and iTunes has its own set of backup glitches...the last two backup/restores I've done have had issues like not restoring the Apps & so on). He had iCloud setup under his email address when he originally bought the 4S back in like 2011, but nothing was synced up there, so he had no idea even his last 1,000 photos weren't being backed up to PhotoStream or anything, regardless of his free 5GB iCloud account.

Needless to say, he is extremely frustrated. He doesn't want to switch to Android, but he lost a couple thousand photos, ALL of his contacts, etc. There was no alert on his phone telling him things weren't syncing to iCloud or reminding him to do a backup. He thought everything was fine until the upgrade install borked & forced him to do a fresh install, and again, he's not technical enough to know that he should have done a full phone backup to iTunes on his PC before doing a major system update...after all, it's an Apple phone...plug it into the wall, hop onto Wifi, and push the update button. Should be easy!

I think there should be 2 changes:

1. A clear status indicator on the phone regarding iCloud sync, including a dashboard for checking what you have (x number of photos, y number of contacts, etc.)
2. A better-defined product page for iCloud that explains what it actually does

As far as he knew, his iCloud was working fine, until he hit a hiccup & lost everything. So now we have PhotoStream, iCloud, etc. I'm still trying to get my head around the differences between "My Photo Stream", "iCloud Photo Sharing", "Camera Roll", etc. because it's just not clear. Plus the Photos app is garbage now because there's no way to scroll through a list of ALL of your photos - the Albums switched to "Recently added", which only shows the last 30 days or whatever, and now you've only got the crappy "Collections" and "Moments" view. Some more info on iCloud & photos here:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4858

http://help.apple.com/icloud/

This is really confusing to me. In iOS 8, I cannot simply open my Photos app and see ALL of my photos. All I really wanted Apple to do was make it so the Camera roll had a speed-scroll bar on the right side so that I could hop through all of the photos easily, but instead, they've made it more complicated. I have no idea what is even backing up to PhotoStream or iCloud because on iOS 7, I constantly got the "not enough space" issue every night from iCloud as an alert, even when I'd have less than 5 gigs of photos & not have any other programs synced to iCloud for data backup.

Anyway, it's just not clear, and I have no easy way to tell exactly what I'm backing up. I play it safe & do my own photo backups on a weekly basis to my desktop computer because I don't trust Apple's system, partially because I don't fully understand how it works. I also don't know how the pay-for iCloud service works...if you have a 16GB iPhone and take 150 gigs of photos, does it automatically back those up to your $4-a-month iCloud service & delete the oldest ones? Basically, I don't feel that this is very clear at all, and I don't know how to easily verify that all of my stuff is actually being backed up. I'll stick with DiskAid for now since I've been burnt by iTunes backups several times as well.
 

rsutoratosu

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2011
2,716
4
81
yeah thats a fving huge problem. i dont know how many times i seen that happen... you really need a full backup before you even do anything. I do get an annoying pop up that my storage hits but im on 7.1.2.. my instructions to any upgrade involves upgrade to the 200gb storage

 

FoxFifth

Member
Feb 16, 2010
139
0
0
There currently isn't an option for photos that is verifiable other than importing them to a computer http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4083 or using a 3rd party service such as Flickr.

I do use both iCloud backup and iTunes backup but do not completely trust either.

I also think that Apple has done a horrible job of making it easy for users to understand what to expect with Photo Stream.

I have hopes for improvement soon if they release iCloud Photo Library: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/12/apple-demotes-icloud-photo-library-beta/
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
For photos you just can't beat the simplicity of Google + photo backup, though it is my secondary backup. Dropbox is my main.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
What I would really like is a green dot next to my battery icon (or orange if syncing or red if not . Green means that all of your photos are synced, all of your contacts are synced, and so on. Then I would like an iCloud Dashboard app - you can open it, see your stats (ex. 2,532 photos synced, contacts are 100% synced, etc.). That would give me confidence in the system because then I could SEE that it's working and be confident at a glance at the homescreen with the green dot. I'm also confused on some other issues:

1. Why can't I see "All Photos" in my Photos app? If I attach photos in another app, it shows me all photos (as well as the newer stuff like "Recently Added") - why can't I just scroll through my photos anymore?

2. In addition to missing "All Photos", why don't I have a speed-scroll bar on the right side to quickly jump through thousands of pictures? Most other apps have something like that.

3. If I purchase the iCloud backup plan, let's say 200 gigs for $4 a month, does it automatically delete my old photos & keep them in the cloud? Or do I have to manage them manually? I'm willing to pay for it if I can just keep on shooting forever and not have to worry about syncing, deleting, etc.

Like, it'd be cool if I could set a threshold on my phone - like the Photos app can use a maximum of 5 gigs of space, the rest is allocated for app usage, and the oldest photos get deleted off the phone. And I'd like a section under "Recently added" for "iCloud Stored Photos" so if I want to go back & snag that photo, I can do so.

So that way, my phone doesn't get eaten alive by photos, and if I drop my phone in the toilet, I lose NOTHING. And I know that I'd lose nothing because the little status indicator is green & I can verify that in the iCloud Dashboard app (both of which don't exist right now). A lot of people I know, especially women who are mothers, keep ALL of their photos on their phone - they hardly use their computer and just use their phone as their camera, photo album to show people photos, etc. So there are plenty of people who would pay for the new iCloud services, assuming it auto-managed the old photos for them, but I can't seem to find a clear answer on anything!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
yeah thats a fving huge problem. i dont know how many times i seen that happen... you really need a full backup before you even do anything. I do get an annoying pop up that my storage hits but im on 7.1.2.. my instructions to any upgrade involves upgrade to the 200gb storage


Yes, and after getting bitten by iTunes Backup several times (much to my embarrassment when I did it for work clients for either iOS upgrades or phone upgrades), I only use DiskAid now, which just got rebranded to iMazing:

http://imazing.com/

It's annoying to have to pay for a tool to do what you want ($30), which should be factory stock, and also to have to sync it manually (at least it has Wifi sync in iMazing), but I can verify that my stuff is backed up properly this in app (it is a trusted solution for me), unlike iTunes & especially unlike iCloud.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,028
1,646
126
Yes, I agree, Apple's attempt at oversimplifying in this case just makes things more complicated. All Apple would need is a single check box page on iCloud saying what was being sync'd and what wasn't, but for some reason Apple refuses to implement something like this.

I tell people it's always ideal to make sure the photos are separately backed up when switching phones. Then make a complete backup in iTunes.

As contacts, you can sync that to iCloud and then access the web interface, so you know if it's there or not. Not so for photos.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
Yes, I agree, Apple's attempt at oversimplifying in this case just makes things more complicated. All Apple would need is a single check box page on iCloud saying what was being sync'd and what wasn't, but for some reason Apple refuses to implement something like this.

I tell people it's always ideal to make sure the photos are separately backed up when switching phones.

As contacts, you can sync that to iCloud, so you know it's there or not. Not so for photos.

Yup exactly! I know there's some new iCloud Photo Sharing stuff, and also iCloud Drive stuff, but none of the settings make any immediate sense to me. I think an iCloud Dashboard app would be perfect:

1. Lets you choose what to sync
2. Lets you select thresholds for local storage (especially photos) before they get auto-deleted & only stored in the cloud
3. Lets you browse what is stored in iCloud
4. Gives you a sync status: percentage & numbers. Ex. if you take 100 photos at an event, it would say 70% synced, and you have a total of 1,574 photos in your iCloud locker.
5. A status indicator in the top menu bar, visible from both the lockscreen & homescreen

It could be so simple...I'm looking at my iPhone's "iCloud" section in Settings right now and it makes no sense to me. I click on my phone under BACKUPS and it says 4.7GB used, but only gives me the option to delete the backup instead of manage it. What's taking up the space, exactly?

The only thing I think they did right is the on/off switches for everything, but again, I don't have status access to everything (how many contacts? is it actually synced up?) Like you said, I can go to iCloud.com and check my contacts, but I'm not going to remember to do that on a weekly basis & I don't really want to.

It's just not clear. It would be so easy for them to make it clear. Also, when you go to iCloud.com, the left half should explain what it is (and why you should buy it), and the right half should have the login boxes. Netflix is the perfect example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5qkGUF8oc

Sign-in on the right, "$7.99 for movies & TV shows" on the left. I get it! iCloud, I don't get it. I've had people ask me "should I get the 200GB or 1TB or whatever backup plan on iCloud?" I can't recommend it because I don't understand exactly how it works & how it manages your data, especially your photos, and I've had so many bad experiences with it that I don't really trust it all that much.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
I actually haven't used Carousel yet, but thanks for reminding me! I'm more concerned with just backing up the ton of photos and video (mostly from the wife).

Yeah, I tried out Amazon's app, which is similar:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/amazon-cloud-drive-photos/id621574163?mt=8

Per their website:

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/learnmore

Extra Storage for your Phone

You can delete photos from your phone and still see them via the Cloud Drive iOS or Android app. Fire phone users get free storage for all photos taken with their Fire phone.

With the extra access that developers get in iOS 8, I'd really like for these third-party apps to be able to go in & delete the oldest photos automatically once it reaches the storage threshold you set on the phone's memory itself. Fortunately there are apps coming out to help fix the problem of the missing Camera Roll:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/myroll-smart-camera-roll-organizer/id513097075?mt=8

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/liferoll-smart-photo-organizer/id642317535?mt=8
 

fr

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
6,408
2
81
Is he never connected to Wi-Fi? Some people are always on mobile data and it won't backup photos.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
Is he never connected to Wi-Fi? Some people are always on mobile data and it won't backup photos.

He was constantly on wifi. He was also setup on iCloud several years ago. Double glitch...bad install plus faulty iCloud link. Really bad combination
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,019
156
106
Yes, and after getting bitten by iTunes Backup several times (much to my embarrassment when I did it for work clients for either iOS upgrades or phone upgrades), I only use DiskAid now, which just got rebranded to iMazing:

http://imazing.com/

It's annoying to have to pay for a tool to do what you want ($30), which should be factory stock, and also to have to sync it manually (at least it has Wifi sync in iMazing), but I can verify that my stuff is backed up properly this in app (it is a trusted solution for me), unlike iTunes & especially unlike iCloud.

Holy crap, that looks like a solution I can actually understand and use effectively, unlike the iTunes piece of junk. Thank you!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,481
6,589
136
Holy crap, that looks like a solution I can actually understand and use effectively, unlike the iTunes piece of junk. Thank you!

Yeah, it's an awesome tool! I can't say enough good things about it. I like the DiskAid better than the new "iMazing" name (sounds cheesy) but it's a solid tool. Plus it works on OS X AND Windows! It has so many great benefits:

1. Faster & more user-friendly than iTunes for managing iOS data, with no jailbreak required
2. Lets you do full backups, restores, and phone to phone clones, as well as archival backups (keep multiple versions, like if an app you like screws something up, you can revert back to the previous version piecemeal without having to do a full restore)
3. Lets you sync wirelessly (or via USB)
4. Custom rebuilding of iTunes library, including syncing music TO iTunes, which you can't do in iTunes (super useful if you get a new computer or reformat your computer - had to use Senuti before), and also rebuilding playlists (it will only copy the missing songs, not do a FULL sync that takes forever), as well as duplicate detection
5. FULL backup of phone data (Voicemail, Voice Memos, Call History, Notes, SMS, etc.), which iTunes/iCloud sometimes wipes or "forgets" during backups/restores

imo Apple should buy them & replace iTunes with it. Adobe had a similar problem in the past - remember how bloated Adobe PDF Reader used to be, then Foxit Reader came along with super-fast PDF opening & viewing, and then Adobe stepped up & made the reader fast again? (particularly on Windows OS)

Seriously, if they integrated iMazing with iTunes, and beefed up iCloud (clearer instructions, status icon by the battery, and iCloud Dashboard app), my complaints with iTunes/iCloud would pretty much be over.
 
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