Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[FlameTail]

That would require a really really high data rate between the "processing block" and the headset. They couldn't use fiber due to durability concerns so it would have to be electrical but that's a tremendous data rate to be carrying - basically equivalent to HDMI 2.1's max rate. Notice how stiff and thick a good HDMI cable is due to the shielding to avoid interference. You could make it thinner but that increases the chances of data drop outs which ruins the user experience.

I don't think doing this would be at all practical. This is Apple, they don't want an external box AT ALL but they had no choice based on the power needs and current battery technology. If they could spend $300 for a battery that's 1/10th of the size and weight so it could be integrated into the headset you better believe they'd do it even if it meant raising the price of the already expensive Vision Pro.

Considering the price of the Vision Pro, I would want them pack in some exotic tech.

Including some.spicy batteries. Solid-State? Graphene battery? ,Some exotic stuff.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Considering the price of the Vision Pro, I would want them pack in some exotic tech.

Including some.spicy batteries. Solid-State? Graphene battery? ,Some exotic stuff.

Wireless Tesla energy from the atmosphere

 

[Doug S]

Considering the price of the Vision Pro, I would want them pack in some exotic tech.

Including some.spicy batteries. Solid-State? Graphene battery? ,Some exotic stuff.

I'm not aware of any technology that would get you 10x better power per volume/weight at any price, let alone that can be manufactured in the hundreds of thousands soon and would have to be manufacturable in the millions if Vision Pro takes off.

 

[mikegg]

You’re still grasping. Before you were using sale prices or inflation fudges, and now you’re quoting a sketchy rumour as gospel.

As others have said repeatedly, it doesn’t exist until it does.

New 'Scary Fast' Macs May Launch on Wednesday, November 8

Apple may be planning to launch new Mac models announced at its "Scary Fast" event on Wednesday, November 8, MacRumors has learned. At the...

www.macrumors.com

Probably, but I already posted about that myself several days ago in this thread. In fact, that’s what most of this thread has been about for days. You’re behind in this thread.

It doesn't matter if I'm late. The point is that you're always so confident in your predictions but you're almost always WRONG. I also believe that you said Apple won't update Apple Silicon for Macs yearly, but we're clearly trending that way. If I my memory is correct, then that's the 3rd prediction you're likely to be very wrong about.

BTW, I decided to look up those old posts from 2020. Here's my statement from back then:

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And this one before that:

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$699 did not happen by 2022, and it turns out we are still at $999 regular retail in 2023 for that same M1 MacBook Air 8 GB / 256 GB , which is now 3 years old. Maybe prices will change next week, but not to $699.

You were staunchly against any cheap Macbooks. For example:

You keep digging yourself deeper with non-sensical arguments. Yes, Apple has great margins. However, that doesn’t mean suddenly will start selling Mac laptops at near cost pricing to the general public just to flood the market. They want to keep those margins high after all.

Apple has always sold Macs at deep discounts to institutions, but that has never translated to bargain basement pricing to the general public direct from Apple.

Your arguments aren’t supported by anything except wishful thinking.

I take credit for actually convincing you that an inexpensive Macbook is a possibility. Don't give yourself too much credit.

PS. It's perfectly fine to just inflation-adjusted numbers. After all, if I could predict that we'd have massive inflation during and after covid back in 2020, I'd be rich. Unfortunately, I missed that. The fact that you're even arguing against this shows how much you're grasping at straws.

 

[mikegg]

I'm not aware of any technology that would get you 10x better power per volume/weight at any price, let alone that can be manufactured in the hundreds of thousands soon and would have to be manufacturable in the millions if Vision Pro takes off.

If Apple can get a battery tech with 10x better performance/weight ratio, they'd sell it in a $3,500 iPhone "Ultra" first.

 

[Eug]

M3 family
- CPU P-core 30% faster than M1, 15% faster than M2
- CPU E-core 50% faster than M1, 30% faster than M2
- New GPU architecture with "Dynamic Caching" for memory
- Hardware mesh shading
- Hardware ray tracing
- GPU rendering 2.5X M1, 1.8X M2 with hardware ray tracing
- Neural engine 60% faster than M1, 15% faster than M2
- Hardware AV1 decode

M3
- 25 billion transistors
- 8 (4+4) / 10 cores
- CPU 35% faster than M1, 20% faster than M2
- GPU 65% faster than M1, 20% faster than M2
- 24 GB RAM

M3 Pro
- 37 billion transistors
- 12 (6+6) / 18 cores
- CPU 20% faster than M1 Pro, no mention of M2 Pro
- GPU 40% faster than M1 Pro, 10% faster than M2 Pro
- 36 GB RAM

M3 Max
- 92 billion transistors
- 16 (12+4) / 40 cores
- CPU 80% faster than M1 Max, 50% faster than M2 Max
- GPU 50% faster than M1 Max, 20% faster than M2 Max
- 128 GB RAM

14" MacBook Pro starts with M3 (not M3 Pro), now $1599
13" MBP is now gone (finally)
14" M3 Pro MacBook comes with 18 GB RAM (not 16)

24" iMac jumps to M3, still $1299.

M1 MacBook Air still being sold, still at $999
M2 still current model - no M3 MBA yet

 

[Thibsie]

Funny how the old Intel 4 cores for everyone went to AMD 6 cores for everyone and now Apple (most vendors in fact but e-cores spamming) 8 cores to everyone.
Still only 8. :/

 

[jpiniero]

I get the impression that there was more to the presentation and it got cut last minute?

 

[Eug]

I get the impression that there was more to the presentation and it got cut last minute?

I didn't get that impression at all. And it was edited to exactly 30 mins.

 

[Tigerick]

Damn Apple, all M3 lineup still using LPDDR5 with reducing memory bus. M3 SoC remains same config, M3 Pro is using 192-bit memory bus. M3 Max is having two type of memory bus support, 30-core GPU is using 384-bit memory bus while 40-core GPU is using 512-bit memory bus. Damn, only Apple can do it.

 

[smalM]

The M3 Pro is now a pumped up version of the M3 instead of a choped version of the M3 Max.
M3 Pro and M3 Max both have 6 core P-core clusters. M3 Pro just added two E-cores to the E-core cluster, same L2.

 

[Tigerick]

The M3 Pro is now a pumped up version of the M3 instead of a choped version of the M3 Max.

I think it is even worse version of M3 Max with 192-bit memory bus support

 

[poke01]

8GB RAM is dissapointing

 

[adroc_thurston]

And the inevitable cost-cutting comes, huh.

 

[gdansk]

8p to 6p and memory bandwidth reduced too?
M3 Pro looking less pro than M2 Pro

 

[smalM]

I think it is even worse version of M3 Max with 192-bit memory bus support

Nope. Take a look at the die shots.

 

[poke01]

M3 lineup seems be total catch up to Nvidia

 

[Eug]

8GB RAM is dissapointing

But not surprising IMO.

8p to 6p and memory bandwidth reduced too?
M3 Pro looking less pro than M2 Pro

Apple declined to compare the CPU speed of M3 Pro against M2 Pro, even though they compared M3 vs M2 and M3 Max vs M2 Max.

Also, it's sad that the M1 MacBook Air is still for sale, esp. at the original retail price of $999. This is a machine that will soon enter its 4th year on this earth. Also, the M2 Air came out July 8, 2022, and I suspect the M3 Air won't come out until the first half of 2024.

 

[StinkyPinky]

M3 looks very uninspiring. The M3 Pro looks like it may even lose performance.

 

[Ajay]

M3 looks very uninspiring. The M3 Pro looks like it may even lose performance.

M3 Max looks pretty good. It’ll have a not so pretty price I think.

 

[StinkyPinky]

M3 Max looks pretty good. It’ll have a not so pretty price I think.

The M3 Max Studio would be nice if they ever release one. Not sure they will though.

 

[Eug]

The M3 Max Studio would be nice if they ever release one. Not sure they will though.

They absolutely will release an M3 Family Mac Studio, but it won't be until next year. They released the M2 Max/Ultra Mac Studio just a few months ago, so it's still too early. Next year look for the M3 Max and M3 Ultra Mac Studio and the M3 Ultra Mac Pro. Dunno about an M3 Extreme Mac Pro, but probably not.

 

[Henry swagger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719150797273825310

N3 is not a big improvement from N4

 

[repoman27]

Damn Apple, all M3 lineup still using LPDDR5 with reducing memory bus. M3 SoC remains same config, M3 Pro is using 192-bit memory bus. M3 Max is having two type of memory bus support, 30-core GPU is using 384-bit memory bus while 40-core GPU is using 512-bit memory bus. Damn, only Apple can do it.

View attachment 88094

What you've got there is mostly right, but to be totally pedantic...

The actual DRAM devices (dies) are all x16, and as you noted, still LPDDR5-6400.

The M3 and M3 Pro use quad-die x64 packages, 2 and 3 respectively. The M3 Max uses octal-die x128 packages, either 3 or 4 depending on the configuration.

The M3 packages each contain 4x 8, 16, or 24 Gbit dies. The M3 Pro packages each contain 4x 12 or 24 Gbit dies. And the M3 Max packages each contain 8x 12, 16, or 32 Gbit dies, although 16 Gbit aren't available for the cut down version.

 

[repoman27]

And the inevitable cost-cutting comes, huh.

Where exactly are you seeing cost cutting here? Apple did three separate designs, rather than two plus a chop. And they're shipping a ~400mm die on TSMC N3 less than 12 months after reaching volume production. That doesn't sound like a recipe for saving money to me.