Application of Thermal Paste

[Tim]

Share your views on the best way to apply thermal paste
Specifically this Diamond IC7 stuff
Also AS5

Anyone have a link for me? Yes I'm too lazy to use the search feature, besides I always end up with bunk results, my fault probably.

 

[tuksonrider]

IC Diamond 7 creator recommends a single "pea-sized" glob in the middle of the CPU ihs. Do NOT spread it, do not use Arctic Silver's "rice-grain" method.

IC7 is thicker and the bond material does not spread will using manual methods. The best way to spread it is to just install the heatsink. The pressure itself will spread out the TIM.

http://www.innovationcooling.com/article1.htm

 

[Tullphan]

I recently purchased a "syringe" of IC7 after reading the rave reviews. I had also read about how difficult it was to install & some recommended to heat some water & let the syringe sit in it for awhile to "soften" it up. I must say that greatly aided in the installation.
Like tuksonrider stated, IC Diamond recommends a "pea-sized" glob in the center of the CPU. They're talking your basic "Jolly Green Giant" frozen pea-sized glob & let it sit for 5-10 minutes before setting the HS/F on it & twisting it slightly before bolting it (or whatever your mounting method is) down.
After using AS Ceramique for awhile on my Tuniq Tower (non-lapped) & my lapped E6300 @ 3.15gHZ, I decided to lap my Tuniq Tower, reposition it (fan blowing up towards top exhaust on P180B) & try the IC7.
I was disappointed in the results. Temperatures didn't change...as a matter of fact, they may be 1-2c higher.
I may try & reposition the HSF again, this time positioned to blow out towards rear exhaust & see if that helps. I hope it does.

 

[OfficeLinebacker]

Originally posted by: Tullphan
I recently purchased a "syringe" of IC7 after reading the rave reviews. I had also read about how difficult it was to install & some recommended to heat some water & let the syringe sit in it for awhile to "soften" it up. I must say that greatly aided in the installation.
Like tuksonrider stated, IC Diamond recommends a "pea-sized" glob in the center of the CPU. They're talking your basic "Jolly Green Giant" frozen pea-sized glob & let it sit for 5-10 minutes before setting the HS/F on it & twisting it slightly before bolting it (or whatever your mounting method is) down.
After using AS Ceramique for awhile on my Tuniq Tower (non-lapped) & my lapped E6300 @ 3.15gHZ, I decided to lap my Tuniq Tower, reposition it (fan blowing up towards top exhaust on P180B) & try the IC7.
I was disappointed in the results. Temperatures didn't change...as a matter of fact, they may be 1-2c higher.
I may try & reposition the HSF again, this time positioned to blow out towards rear exhaust & see if that helps. I hope it does.

That's why experimenters change only one thing at a time.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Tullphan
I recently purchased a "syringe" of IC7 after reading the rave reviews. I had also read about how difficult it was to install & some recommended to heat some water & let the syringe sit in it for awhile to "soften" it up. I must say that greatly aided in the installation.
Like tuksonrider stated, IC Diamond recommends a "pea-sized" glob in the center of the CPU. They're talking your basic "Jolly Green Giant" frozen pea-sized glob & let it sit for 5-10 minutes before setting the HS/F on it & twisting it slightly before bolting it (or whatever your mounting method is) down.
After using AS Ceramique for awhile on my Tuniq Tower (non-lapped) & my lapped E6300 @ 3.15gHZ, I decided to lap my Tuniq Tower, reposition it (fan blowing up towards top exhaust on P180B) & try the IC7.
I was disappointed in the results. Temperatures didn't change...as a matter of fact, they may be 1-2c higher.
I may try & reposition the HSF again, this time positioned to blow out towards rear exhaust & see if that helps. I hope it does.

I don't know if it's necessary with IC7 but, did you do a good burn-in on it? given the thickenss it may be beneficial to run at 100% load for atleast 24 hours to help the distribution of the thermalpaste. Besides that, just take good note of well the TIM is distributed when you remove your heatsink, better yet, take a picutre of the bottom of the base and the IHS so we can look at your distribution and maybe help you out.

 

[Tullphan]

Originally posted by: OfficeLinebacker

Originally posted by: Tullphan
I recently purchased a "syringe" of IC7 after reading the rave reviews. I had also read about how difficult it was to install & some recommended to heat some water & let the syringe sit in it for awhile to "soften" it up. I must say that greatly aided in the installation.
Like tuksonrider stated, IC Diamond recommends a "pea-sized" glob in the center of the CPU. They're talking your basic "Jolly Green Giant" frozen pea-sized glob & let it sit for 5-10 minutes before setting the HS/F on it & twisting it slightly before bolting it (or whatever your mounting method is) down.
After using AS Ceramique for awhile on my Tuniq Tower (non-lapped) & my lapped E6300 @ 3.15gHZ, I decided to lap my Tuniq Tower, reposition it (fan blowing up towards top exhaust on P180B) & try the IC7.
I was disappointed in the results. Temperatures didn't change...as a matter of fact, they may be 1-2c higher.
I may try & reposition the HSF again, this time positioned to blow out towards rear exhaust & see if that helps. I hope it does.

That's why experimenters change only one thing at a time.

Lapping a HS/F & positioning it according to manufacturer's specifications is experimenting?

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
I don't know if it's necessary with IC7 but, did you do a good burn-in on it? given the thickenss it may be beneficial to run at 100% load for atleast 24 hours to help the distribution of the thermalpaste. Besides that, just take good note of well the TIM is distributed when you remove your heatsink, better yet, take a picutre of the bottom of the base and the IHS so we can look at your distribution and maybe help you out.

I didn't do a 24 hour burn-in, but I did run 2 instances of Prime95 overnight.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
I don't know if it's necessary with IC7 but, did you do a good burn-in on it? given the thickenss it may be beneficial to run at 100% load for atleast 24 hours to help the distribution of the thermalpaste. Besides that, just take good note of well the TIM is distributed when you remove your heatsink, better yet, take a picutre of the bottom of the base and the IHS so we can look at your distribution and maybe help you out.

I didn't do a 24 hour burn-in, but I did run 2 instances of Prime95 overnight.

Hrm, i should think that would just about do it, though I know with AS5 even at full load i don't usually see temperatures hit bottom for a few days.

 

[OfficeLinebacker]

Tullphan--I never said you were experimenting.

 

[overbyte]

I was just looking at the IC site's troubleshooting guide and they say that towers can be a particular problem as well as any sink with a weak mounting system. They even have a pressure/ performance chart. you can lose a few degrees because of that according to the graph they have up. try beefing up your HS mount.

 

[tuksonrider]

ICD7 requires NO cure or break-in time. Temps you get right away are the temps you get months from now. It is thicker and the creater recommends a high pressure mount of the HSF. Heavier heatsinks, when mounted and placed on it's side (like most upright cases) will tend to have uneven mounting pressure due to weight and gravity. A bolt-through mount is preferred.

Here's a user review I did on it. Bottom line, I did see an improvement over ASC

Artic Silver Ceramique vs. IC Diamond 7 Carat

I?m not one that received the free thermal compound from IC, but a quick google search while I was bored at work brought up the ocforums.com. It piqued my interest because I ran out of my favorite thermal interface material, Arctic Silver Ceramique (which coincidently, I received free in the past).

I liked Artic Silver Ceramique because of its non-conductive, easy to work with material. It also provided a faster curing time than its more famous brother, Arctic Silver 5. Not to mention, it?s usually a bit cheaper than AS5 and can be found at hundreds of vendors. While that's all good, it also showed a slight improvement by an avg of 1C over AS5.

I decided to go with a new TIM for my personal gaming PC (Q6600 B3 @ 3.2GHz). The IC Diamond 7 (IC7) is fairly new, and I could only find it at 3 vendors (Directron.com Petrastechshop.com & Heatsinkfactory.com)

What drew me to IC7 were 2 things, diamonds and thicker bond material. Diamond thermal conductivity rates up better than silver. That?s a very good thing when our goal is transfer heat effectively from the CPU to heatsink. The other is the thickness of bond material. IC7?s site provided a view that thinner grease is susceptible to grease pump out. Mainly, as the material heats up, it expands, and eventually, this action pumps it out to the edges of the heatsink. Due to this pumping action by thermal cycling, the amount of TIM between the CPU and HSF becomes a problem of enough TIM to effectively transfer heat and months later, have to be re-applied.

So, with my head filled with IC?s sales pitch, I pulled out my trusty credit card and plucked down $7.50 ($6 + $1.50sh USPS 1st Class) for this diamond TIM. Two days later, I find it in my mailbox. It was the first time I ordered anything from Petrastechshop.com and they shipped out my order the same day.

Opening the small envelope, I find the IC7 TIM inside. It?s not in any packaging, no fancy blister pack, no plastic sleeve, nothing. That?s fine, anything to cut costs. It arrived safely.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...r/TIM_Shootout/ic7.jpg
--------------------

Arctic Silver Ceramique:
First up is Arctic Silver Ceramique. I applied this to my HSF/CPU about a month ago (when I upgraded to a TR Bolt-Thru kit for my HSF) so it?s had plenty of time to cure.
It comes in a non-see thru plunger applicator. Apply Ceramique is very easy to deal with. It reminds me of the generic silicon TIM you see everywhere.

IC Diamond 7 Carat:
This comes in a rather large plunger applicator. My first impression was ?Wow! That?s a lot!?. Then I decided to peel off the label. Yeah, them my reaction was, ?Hrm. That doesn?t seem like a whole lot?.

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.../TIM_Shootout/ic7a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.../TIM_Shootout/ic7b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.../TIM_Shootout/ic7c.jpg


Reading about how thick this was on the Internet, I was wondering how my experience was going to go. Surprisingly, it wasn?t as thick or as hard to apply as I thought it would be. It was a bit thicker than Ceramique, and did require a little bit more ?oomph? to push down the plunger, but if I didn?t have that to compare it to, then I really wouldn?t have even thought about it. (I actually had a more trouble dealing with Cooler Master TIM)

TEST BENCH:
Intel Q6600 (B3) @ 2.4GHz, 3.0GHz, 3.2GHz)
Kingwin RVT-12025 Heatsink w/ 120mm fan (max rpm)
*Note: Using a Thermalright 775 Bolt-Thru Mounting Kit
eVGA 650i motherboard
eVGA 8800GT 512MB Video
Antec 900 case (closed)
AMBIENT ROOM TEMP: 21C
AMBIENT CASE TEMP: 24C

A note about the setup. The Kingwin RVT-12025 (also known as a rebadged Xigmatek HDT-1283) is a unique HSF. It incorporates what?s called a ?Heat-pipe Direct Touch? system. Basically, it uses the 3x 8mm heatpipes to come in direct contact with the CPU to transfer the heat rather than the heatpipes buried into a solid copper or aluminum base. This makes applying any TIM a bit different than what manufacturers recommend.

I used the same process for both TIMs tested here. Artic Silver recommends a single line between the cores on the CPU and a thin layer rubbed on the HSF. IC7 recommends a ?pea-sized? glob on top of the CPU. I felt that neither of these methods work with a HDT design. What I did was apply a thin line on each of the heatpipes.

After applying three lines to the HSF, I found I used up about 1/3 of the available material.

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.../TIM_Shootout/ic7d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.../TIM_Shootout/ic7e.jpg

TESTING

CASE FAN CONFIGURATION:
I?m just a simple end-user. There?s no special set-up, it?s what I use 24/7 as my gaming platform. My system is buttoned up in an Antec 900 case and kept with case covers on. Max RPM was set on the HSF fan for both TIMs.

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...temps/antec_flow02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/alb.../case_mod/DSCF1198.jpg

RESULTS:
Ambient Room Temperature was kept at a CONSTANT 21.0C. Load tests were conducted with PRIME95, Small FFTs for about 15 minutes each. Tests were conducted at speed/volts: 2.4GHz/AutoV, 3.0GHz/1.312V, 3.2GHz/1.343V

Artic Silver Ceramique:
2.4GHz - Auto Volts
IDLE: / LOAD:
Core1: 36C/ 57C
Core2: 36C/ 57C
Core3: 36C/ 54C
Core4: 36C/ 54C

3.0GHz ? 1.312V
IDLE: / LOAD:
Core1: 37C/ 62C
Core2: 36C/ 59C
Core3: 36C/ 59C
Core4: 37C/ 62C

3.2GHz ? 1.343V
IDLE: / LOAD:
Core1: 37C/ 63C
Core2: 36C/ 64C
Core3: 36C/ 64C
Core4: 37C/ 63C


IC Diamond 7 Carat:
2.4GHz ? Auto Volts
IDLE: / LOAD:
Core1: 35C/ 54C
Core2: 34C/ 51C
Core3: 35C/ 54C
Core4: 35C/ 51C

3.0GHz ? 1.312V
IDLE: / LOAD:
Core1: 36C/ 58C
Core2: 35C/ 55C
Core3: 34C/ 55C
Core4: 36C/ 58C

3.2GHz ? 1.343V
IDLE: / LOAD:
Core1: 36C/ 61C
Core2: 36C/ 58C
Core3: 35C/ 58C
Core4: 36C/ 61C

To my surprise, the IC7 trumped Ceramique. Usually, I was expecting a 1C degree difference in either direction between these 2 TIMS. What I got was a ?4C difference using IC7 over Ceramique at 3.2GHz under load. That?s an impressive improvement between TIMs. At all speeds under Idle/Load, the IC7 wins out.
IDLE: .75C Average Difference (2.4GHz, 3.0GHz, 3.2GHz) IC7 Wins
LOAD: 3.333C Average Difference (2.4GHz, 3.0GHz, 3.2GHz) IC7 Wins

The graph below represents the Average Temperature of all 4 Cores.
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...ootout/tim_results.jpg

I tried my best to simulate a constant environment condition between the two TIMS, from keeping the same ambient temperatures to the way I applied the tims. The bottom line is that I?m using it as any other end-user would use the product. There was no special test bench setup I used, no tweaks, no special measuring equipment (other than a thermometer, Core-Temp, and Prime95).

 

[Rubycon]

Why compare to Ceramique? AS5 is the premier product and is bested by a few competitors such as TX2, etc. If you compared the diamond dust stuff to those I'd think you'd be disappointed in the results. Or the differences would simply be lost in the noise of the benchmarking metric. Good effort to compare, however.

 

[tuksonrider]

Actually, tests on the net have been showing that Ceramique, MX-2, and others have bested AS5 for months now.

I used Ceramiqe because:
1.) I've already had it installed
2.) It's been installed for a month now (allowing for break-in and cure time)
3.) It's a better performer than AS5

 

[georgeszi]

ICD7 Looks to be doing well against AS5, MX2 over at Hardwarelogic

 

[Rubycon]

LOL one of those testers shows a big difference in idle and smaller difference in load which means it's actually worse overall than AS5. Ambient temps dropped perhaps?

Fact is NO thermal compound is going to make up for bad mating of surfaces. If all was perfect, no compound at all would be the best but outside of expensive machining on both fronts - a 'JO block match' of parts is impossible unfortunately.

 

[tuksonrider]

As long as the constants of a controlled enviroment stay the same, the raw data is still valid.

If the same system, with the same bad mount is used to test two different tims, they are valid. The temps may be off, but the offeset is the same to compare the two. The temps are just a number show the relationship between the two. You can remove the temp number all together, and just gold stars to represent the performce. It's the same.

If two tims were tested in two different systems, one with a bad mount, and one with a good mount, then the data would be invalid because the the data has been influenced.

 

[georgeszi]

Comparison of before and after load temps Looks a Little different here.

Better to look at the average result than try to focus on a cherry picked result . waste of time

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: tuksonrider
As long as the constants of a controlled enviroment stay the same, the raw data is still valid.

A desk is hardly a controlled environment. This is what laboratories are for.

Originally posted by: georgeszi
Comparison of before and after load temps Looks a Little different here.

Better to look at the average result than try to focus on a cherry picked result . waste of time

Shill

 

[tuksonrider]

And these are "USER" reviews. You have to read them like that. You really don't need a "Labratory", as long as you take deligence to control the enviroment as best you can. If you don't trust any "user" review, then the best thing is just ignore them and read the manufacturer label on the packaging to make your best educated judgement.

You can always find an arguement to throw out the data.

My "test comparison", I did my best to control the enviroment. I made sure that the Ambient room temperature was a constant 21C through out the tests. Any devience from +/-.1C and I halted and waited for the temps to stabalize back to 21C.

I used the same HSF, case, airflow, and TIM application (for my particular HSF).

Still, there is certain things that I couldn't control. The biggest was mounting pressure. I have the TR 775 bolt-thru kit. Now I applied ASC about a month ago. Then I applied IC7. There could have been a difference on how much torque I applied to spring mounted screws. For one, i do not have a Torque screw driver so there was no way to record it. I did my best in my judgement.

 

[georgeszi]

Now that's about as lame as you can get. This kind of a small topic. A little over the top maybe?

Name calling is the last resort of somebody who has no argument

Whatever

tuksonrider is no different than a million other people that post their results if you do not like his data that's OK, at least appreciate his effort to share his results.

You got a lab? give him a break, he did a pretty good job whatever his numbers are

 

[Rubycon]

Sorry but a new member comes here pushing unproven NEW products using promotions is shilling. It could be snake oil for all I care. There is little difference between products these days. I have plenty of argument and advice from folks with engineering degrees that strongly disagree with what has been said.

 

[georgeszi]

Excuse me, You know some engineers? Holly moley you are using that as your creds? that's really, really weak

New and unproven products and performance and are always discussed in the forums without the input of somebody who has a distant relation to an engineer. How else are people going to educate themselves? If the forums did not have new and unproven products there would be nothing left to discuss except maybe the weather

thepladfad started the discussion with a new product, is he a shill too?

Posting a link to a forum that has a number of people that are actively applying and testing and the paste and may have the answer he is looking for is shilling?

Contradicting your interpretation of results and because you do not like the result is shilling?

Somebody taking their time to extensively test and post their results is shilling because you do not like how long they are a member? Not very welcoming to the community coming from a senior member.

Let's extend the paranoia, Who are you shilling for? Arctic silver, MX-2, OCZ? This is kind of a light subject so what bone are you picking on? I mean is all this righteous indignation real? Are you serious ?Time to chill

 

[overbyte]

Yeah, well.... ah, well.......Anybody see a comp's of ICD7 vs Tuniq TX-2?

 

[tuksonrider]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Sorry but a new member comes here pushing unproven NEW products using promotions is shilling. It could be snake oil for all I care. There is little difference between products these days. I have plenty of argument and advice from folks with engineering degrees that strongly disagree with what has been said.

Dude, as Georgeszi said, "chill".

Look, it seems you have your mind made up on what works for you and what is your favorite. That's fine. I'm not here to knock what you use. Bottom line, if whatever you use works, then that's all that matters.

I did a test comparison between 2 TIMS using methods I thought was fair. I posted this review for the sake of the creator of ICD7 over at ocforums.com

I didn't receive it free, I ordered it and paid just like anyone else would. (I actually received the ASC free, but it was a gift).

I measured my results and posted them. You can attack the data all you want, that's cool too. You can critique my testing and that's fine, but please just use common sense and a little respect. If you don't beleive my data, then don't beleive it.

The creator of ICD7 wanted as many testers as possible to get some data. Not everyone's testing procedure is "the best", but with enough data, you can plot out a graph to show an avg and throwing out wild results. Basic statistics is all.

If it sounded like I was attacking you, then it's a miscommunication with text. I was just pointing out why I did what I did in the envireoment I did it in.

 

[Tullphan]

Originally posted by: overbyte
I was just looking at the IC site's troubleshooting guide and they say that towers can be a particular problem as well as any sink with a weak mounting system. They even have a pressure/ performance chart. you can lose a few degrees because of that according to the graph they have up. try beefing up your HS mount.

I don't think my Tuniq Tower with its' bolt-through mounting system is weak, but I may be wrong.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Tullphan

I don't think my Tuniq Tower with its' bolt-through mounting system is weak, but I may be wrong.

The thumbscrews are the weakest point with a fair amount of reports of users having the screws heads separate. I've never had that problem even with numerous re-installation. Always used the springs and tightened till they bottom. One must remember that you NEVER continue to apply force to a fastener that's bottomed. It's not going to increase plate pressure and the risk of ringing it off is very real. Perhaps this is what has happened - I don't know. The TT plate is sufficiently sturdy, however.