APU faster than GPU?

[AtenRa]

Exactly. AMD has a proven track record of not being able to execute. Do you have any evidence they have changed?

The last years is the opposite, Intel has a record of not being able to execute in major projects.

AMD
Llano Q3 2011, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Trinity Q3 2012, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Ritchland Q2 2013, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Kaveri Q1 2014, fastest APU in the market(desktop)

Four years consistency of being the leader in APUs. And things will remain the same for the years to come.

On the other hand,

Intel
32nm Sandybridge Q1 2011
22nm IvyBridge Q2 2012
22nm Haswell Q3 2013
22nm Haswell refresh Q3 2014 (oups, bye bye tick-tock)

14nm Broadwell Q2 2015?

Intel mobile group
2011 577M losses
2012 1,377M losses
2013 2,445M losses
2014 (3 quarters) 3,096M losses

They consistently increasing loosing money per year in that sector. They will reach more than 4B losses in 2014. From 2011 to end of 2014 their Mobile group will have close to 9B losses. :whiste:

So, not everything is as you want to present it

 

[Phynaz]

You sure had to put a lot of qualifiers in there. As a matter of fact you don't even state how you defined fastest - which will be a corner case I'm sure.

How did AMD actually do selling those so called fastest APUs? Again, they fired their CEO due to company performance.

Just more deceit from the ADF.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, doesnt much matter if you are the fastest at something nobody wants to buy, as proven by their pathetic market share in every category except cheap desktops.

 

[Gikaseixas]

prove a negative?

That's all you do in threads that talk about Intel competitors. Agenda clear as water. Keep fighting hard dude...

 

[Gikaseixas]

Yea, doesnt much matter if you are the fastest at something nobody wants to buy, as proven by their pathetic market share in every category except cheap desktops.

What matters then? Why do you care about market share when what we discussing here is performance? Any bonuses from that???? I bet you would cry for nights if AMD does well sales wise. Another clear agenda uncovered

 

[Gikaseixas]

Again, they fired their CEO due to company performance

This is sign that they wanna improve, they want to do better. Why keep a guy that couldn't turn business around? That's how it is.

 

[BSim500]

"Fastest APU" is a bit meaningless when it includes 90% of PC users who are non-gamers, office PC's, ultra-portables, etc, who don't care about 3D GFX performance beyond basic Youtube / DVD / Blu-Ray acceleration (which any +2010 CPU/"APU" can do). It's like arguing over 4TB vs 3TB HDD's for someone who has all of 15GB of personal data + a 20-30GB basic Windows & Office install. An Intel Iris Pro is also overkill for those who "play" Word, Excel, Outlook & Powerpoint...

 

[frozentundra123456]

"Fastest APU" is a bit meaningless when it includes 90% of PC users who are non-gamers, office PC's, ultra-portables, etc, who don't care about 3D GFX performance beyond basic Youtube / DVD / Blu-Ray acceleration (which any +2010 CPU/"APU" can do). It's like arguing over 4TB vs 3TB HDD's for someone who has all of 15GB of personal data + a 20-30GB basic Windows & Office install. An Intel Iris Pro is also overkill for those who "play" Word, Excel, Outlook & Powerpoint...

Exactly, and for those who want a powerful gpu, no igp yet on the market is close to a discrete card. So it is either too much gpu or not enough.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Fastest CPU (i7 5960x) is a bit meaningless when it inludes 90% of PC users who are non-gamers bla bla bla
Thing is, some gamers do buy APUs. It's fun to actually test these things and push them hard. I have one and I got it for my HTPC but I enjoy some Steam games there. What's been said is true but you guys can't deny that one of the uses for a A10 7850K is gaming.

I understand it won't outpace discret solutions, that's not my argument but we're closer to a breakthrough according to some leaks and I know that in this industry you need lots of salt hehehe but why be so negative towards this just because it's not made by a certain brand?

 

[AtenRa]

How did AMD actually do selling those so called fastest APUs? Again, they fired their CEO due to company performance.

Just more deceit from the ADF.

Let me remind you what you said,

Exactly. AMD has a proven track record of not being able to execute. Do you have any evidence they have changed?

AMD
Llano Q3 2011, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Trinity Q3 2012, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Ritchland Q2 2013, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Kaveri Q1 2014, fastest APU in the market(desktop)

FOUR CONSECUTIVE fastest and on time APU releases the last 4 years.

Now that is a track record of them being able to DELIVER and they will do the same with Carrizo.
You can change the goalposts every time your argument falls flat but that will not change the fact they have already been able to execute.

 

[AtenRa]

"Fastest APU" is a bit meaningless when it includes 90% of PC users who are non-gamers, office PC's, ultra-portables, etc, who don't care about 3D GFX performance beyond basic Youtube / DVD / Blu-Ray acceleration (which any +2010 CPU/"APU" can do). It's like arguing over 4TB vs 3TB HDD's for someone who has all of 15GB of personal data + a 20-30GB basic Windows & Office install. An Intel Iris Pro is also overkill for those who "play" Word, Excel, Outlook & Powerpoint...

Exactly, and for those who want a powerful gpu, no igp yet on the market is close to a discrete card. So it is either too much gpu or not enough.

Then a dual core 2GHz CPU will be fine for that 90% of the users out there, why then AMD CPUs are not good enough for those same people ???

If 90% of the users are fine witn Intel iGPUs then the same users are fine with AMD CPUs. You see, this goes both ways.

 

[BSim500]

Fastest CPU (i7 5960x) is a bit meaningless when it inludes 90% of PC users who are non-gamers bla bla bla

Not really since people do buy i7's for video encoding, professional work, etc. And I guess you missed the part where I said "An Intel Iris Pro is also overkill for those who "play" Word, Excel, Outlook & Powerpoint" in your funny "anti-anti-AMD" witchhunt?...

Then a dual core 2GHz CPU will be fine for that 90% of the users out there, why then AMD CPUs are not good enough for those same people ???

You do realize that most of that 90% actually DO use 2-3GHz dual-cores (laptops outsell desktops)? AMD's mobile problem there is still much lower perf-per-watt due to being stuck on 28nm. As for desktops, it's hardly rare to require high CPU performance without needing high GPU performance. I hope AMD do improve and "stacked RAM" (and 22nm) does work out. Point is - High end APU's like the A10-7850K have for a long time always been constantly stuck between a rock (speed not needed at all for non-gamers, even a $70 Pentium's iGPU will do for a basic office / net box) and a hard place (many "budget gamers" don't pick the absolute cheapest chip, they go for the "best bang per buck" and when a $180 A10-7850K was only $30 cheaper than an $210 i3 + 7790 dGPU that could get +150-200% the fps and made the difference between upscaled 720p vs native 1080p gaming, it really was a no brainer - and is why AMD were forced to massively slash prices on the A10-7850K in the first place - they *weren't* selling as well as expected).

 

[Abwx]

AMD's mobile problem there is still much lower perf-per-watt due to being stuck on 28nm.

Yet another urban legend...

Same laptops with same batteries, differently powered, A8 6410 on one side and a i3 4030U on the other side, i post notebookcheck conclusion when speaking of the Beema ba&ttery life in respect of the i3, a must read :

Overall, the Pavilion delivers good battery runtimes. The sister model performs better while idle and under load, but the two models are on par in the realistic WLAN test

Check the runtimes, the i3 also consume 30% more than the A8 6410, so much for Haswell super perfs/watt, seems that notebookcheck got a...check..

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a093na-x360-Convertible-Review-Update.130928.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-13-a000ng-x360-Convertible-Review.127351.0.html

 

[Gikaseixas]

Then a dual core 2GHz CPU will be fine for that 90% of the users out there, why then AMD CPUs are not good enough for those same people ???

If 90% of the users are fine witn Intel iGPUs then the same users are fine with AMD CPUs. You see, this goes both ways.

Oh don't be so logical and correct. If it's from AMD it's not good enough regardless. And i thought i've seen it all

 

[Gikaseixas]

Not really since people do buy i7's for video encoding, professional work, etc

You must be confused. What about APU buyers then? Each has their own purposes and of course i only used your own logic. It's funny how you guys try so hard to justify one brand cpus and try to show the other the worst possible way. You and co is what's funny hahaha

 

[AtenRa]

Not really since people do buy i7's for video encoding, professional work, etc. And I guess you missed the part where I said "An Intel Iris Pro is also overkill for those who "play" Word, Excel, Outlook & Powerpoint" in your funny "anti-anti-AMD" witchhunt?...



You do realize that most of that 90% actually DO use 2-3GHz dual-cores (laptops outsell desktops)? AMD's mobile problem there is still much lower perf-per-watt due to being stuck on 28nm. As for desktops, it's hardly rare to require high CPU performance without needing high GPU performance. I hope AMD do improve and "stacked RAM" (and 22nm) does work out. Point is - High end APU's like the A10-7850K have for a long time always been constantly stuck between a rock (speed not needed at all for non-gamers, even a $70 Pentium's iGPU will do for a basic office / net box) and a hard place (many "budget gamers" don't pick the absolute cheapest chip, they go for the "best bang per buck" and when a $180 A10-7850K was only $30 cheaper than an $210 i3 + 7790 dGPU that could get +150-200% the fps and made the difference between upscaled 720p vs native 1080p gaming, it really was a no brainer - and is why AMD were forced to massively slash prices on the A10-7850K in the first place - they *weren't* selling as well as expected).

You do know that AMD APUs are not only the High-End models, there are Entry level models as cheap as $35. The APUs cover a large portion of the market, A10-7850K only covers the top-end of the APU coverage.

Again, AMD have executed for four years in a row the best APUs in the industry. No matter how you are going to downplay it, it is a fact.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Again, AMD have executed for four years in a row the best APUs in the industry. No matter how you are going to downplay it, it is a fact.

AtenRa guarantees it!

 

[AtenRa]

AtenRa guarantees it!

Thread crap much ??

 

[Phynaz]

Let me remind you what you said,



AMD
Llano Q3 2011, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Trinity Q3 2012, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Ritchland Q2 2013, fastest APU in the market(desktop)
Kaveri Q1 2014, fastest APU in the market(desktop)

FOUR CONSECUTIVE fastest and on time APU releases the last 4 years.

Now that is a track record of them being able to DELIVER and they will do the same with Carrizo.
You can change the goalposts every time your argument falls flat but that will not change the fact they have already been able to execute.

All you do is repeat yourself and fail to actually reply to what I wrote.

 

[mrmt]

Fastest CPU (i7 5960x) is a bit meaningless when it inludes 90% of PC users who are non-gamers bla bla bla
Thing is, some gamers do buy APUs. It's fun to actually test these things and push them hard. I have one and I got it for my HTPC but I enjoy some Steam games there. What's been said is true but you guys can't deny that one of the uses for a A10 7850K is gaming.

Fastest CPU is not meaningless, especially when there's a market for it without any substitutes. If you need a certain level of CPU performance you *must* go Xeon/i7 5xxx. But what if you need APU levels of performance? You can have it on mobile, you can have it on desktops, all that using AMD, Intel or a combination of Intel/Nvidia solutions.

I understand it won't outpace discret solutions, that's not my argument but we're closer to a breakthrough according to some leaks and I know that in this industry you need lots of salt hehehe but why be so negative towards this just because it's not made by a certain brand?

What's the evidence that we're close to that breakthrough beyond your faith that AMD can somehow execute it, something that they wasn't able for years?

Have a look at AMD roadmaps in 2012:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/02/amd-2012-2013-roadmap-apus-galore/

Have a look at AMD roadmap in 2010:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NzI0MTd8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

AMD works like a clock, doesn't it? And do you expect that with less personnel, less R&D money and less experienced personnel they will somehow be able to do better? I think it's reasonable to expect them to survive and refocus on other markets, but I really have doubts about AMD supporting competition against Intel and Nvidia. They are way too FUBAR'ed for that.

 

[BSim500]

You do know that AMD APUs are not only the High-End models, there are Entry level models as cheap as $35. The APUs cover a large portion of the market, A10-7850K only covers the top-end of the APU coverage.

Yes and the lower you go, the more unpleasant "gaming" becomes. As I said - I really hope it works out for AMD. But for APU's in general - Intel & AMD alike - I wouldn't even look at gaming on any APU in 2014 on anything less than a realistic 2014 baseline of a 7790 / 260X / 750Ti unless you set a REALLY low bar of DOTA2, etc, or old games / sub-native resolutions. Precisely what I meant in my post as "moving target" - a 7750-7770 dGPU isn't even "low/mid range" anymore or "an unreasonable demand" if iGPU's want to keep up. The "choice" of either ugly blurred 720p -> 1080p upscaling or 1080p 30fps Medium or turning everything to "ultra low" and enjoying "world of plastic" is really not my idea of fun no matter how some try and sell it as a "bargain".

Give me a call when AMD release a desktop APU with at least XB1 on-die GPU (7790 / 260X) performance and can at least play 2012-2013 UE3 games like Bioshock Infinite at 1080p on Med at 60fps. (ie, when they boost the performance of an A10-7850K by 100% at 1080p - I'll express a genuine serious interest as a "low end" option for 2014 gaming). For many like me, it's not an issue of cost but simple baseline capability (ie, 1080p/60fps on Med on last-gen UE3 games is hardly "bleeding edge" demands). And neither Intel's Iris Pro nor AMD's A10's are there yet.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Fastest CPU is not meaningless

But fastest APU is, i see
It has various purposes, pretty useful ones too IMO but lets agree to disagree.

What's the evidence that we're close to that breakthrough beyond your faith that AMD can somehow execute it

What evidence can i possible present if we're talking about a FUTURE product. AtenRa showed you that AMD has been releasing APU's in a consistent manner for 4 straight years and as i said it before we're talking about an industry that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. So it's not an absolute, it's simply an expectation from me that AMD can deliver this one. You clearly can't deal with people saying this but you have to accept that people have different opinions and expectations. I have also said that we have to wait until a product is launched before label it garbage.

 

[tential]

Delivering a product that little to none of the market wants?
I'm not sure that's executing.

Even the latest article on anandtech's front page with an AMD APU in it still falls short of it's baytrail competitor. I was mindboggled how AMD could make an APU that can't even handle 1080p/60 fps streams yet BAYTRAIL can. I mean AMD come on...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8641/gigabyte-brix-gbbxbt1900-review-a-bay-trail-ucff-pc/5
6/9 are playable
vs
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8744/zotac-zbox-ca320-nano-plus-review-a-fanless-amd-minipc/5
4/9 are playable

Execution of subpar products? Does that really count for anything?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Delivering a product that little to none of the market wants?
I'm not sure that's executing.

Even the latest article on anandtech's front page with an AMD APU in it still falls short of it's baytrail competitor. I was mindboggled how AMD could make an APU that can't even handle 1080p/60 fps streams yet BAYTRAIL can. I mean AMD come on...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8641/gigabyte-brix-gbbxbt1900-review-a-bay-trail-ucff-pc/5
6/9 are playable
vs
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8744/zotac-zbox-ca320-nano-plus-review-a-fanless-amd-minipc/5
4/9 are playable

Execution of subpar products? Does that really count for anything?

When it comes to low power SoCs, the quality of the dedicated blocks for doing various tasks is just as important, if not moreso, as general purpose CPU performance and 3D graphics performance.

 

[Headfoot]

These arguments are so incredibly strained I thought you all were joking. Apparently stapling existing GPU tech to marginally modified CPU tech is exactly the same as implementing the biggest change in memory interface technology since the 90s. If any of you seriously believe implementing HBM is as easy as previous APU updates you're going to have to provide some evidence of that. Seeing how literally no one has done HBM in a shipping product before (unless you count it's cousin 3d NAND)