APU faster than GPU?

[schmuckley]

never in a million years

 

[AtenRa]

never in a million years

I believe you havent understood what the OP have asked, neither the majority of the people here.

 

[tential]

Why are people so against this?

APU technology improving is helpful to the industry. It makes AMD more competitive which forces not only Intel to become better, but Nvidia as well.

If HBM is in fact that helpful to APU's, Nvidia has to retarget the midrange market harder than ever, and Intel has to also make better/cheaper CPUs to be paired with Nvidia GPUs to compete.

A LEGITIMATE APU has always been what AMD needed to regain some marketshare.
I had extremely high hopes for the APU when PS4/Xbone were announced in that AMD could launch a gaming APU for laptops/desktops that would deliver Xbone/PS4 level graphics. Sadly, that never came to fruitation.

However, if APUs can tango with midrange cards or even slightly lower come 2015-2016, we could see REAL competition.

Stop playing favorites, this isn't about your favorite NFL team winning a superbowl, it's about bringing competition to a market that desperately needs it. An APU being viable at the midrange is a game shakeup that we as enthusiasts desperately need.

Edit: This also pushes the Steambox into a far more viable solution for PCGaming. An APU that is a competent gamer for cheap allows more Steamboxes to sell which perhaps will allow us a dedicated OS for PCGaming.

 

[mrmt]

Why are people so against this?

APU technology improving is helpful to the industry. It makes AMD more competitive which forces not only Intel to become better, but Nvidia as well.

Nobody is against competitive AMD APUs, the people are voicing concerns about AMD's ability in deliverying them: Even if AMD could bring that kind of performance to the market, Globalfoundries would have to manufacture it at affordable costs.

 

[tential]

Nobody is against competitive AMD APUs, the people are voicing concerns about AMD's ability in deliverying them: Even if AMD could bring that kind of performance to the market, Globalfoundries would have to manufacture it at affordable costs.

People were making it seem impossible. I agree, amd delivering it i have doubts but the technology it is possible. It's just whether amd cab execute.

 

[lyssword]

I think a lot of that depends on what you mean by "low-end" to "midrange".

Yes, you can certainly cheap/old video cards that are slower than the fastest APUs, but those really aren't gaming cards. Those are cards to replace a part in an OEM system, or a cheap upgrade to drive extra monitors or to do basic video playback with CPUs that lack or have terrible integrated graphics.

When most people talk about mid-range cards for gaming, although they may mean many different things, I typically see this refer to some neighborhood around ~150 USD, and things like the 750(Ti)->760, and the R9-270(x)->R9-280.

The A10-7850k isn't at the same table as ANY of those.

Edit to add:
http://www.anandtech.com/print/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k

It's uniformly slower than AMD's 6750 (although it is notably kind of close in CoH2) which is comparable (and probably a bit slower than) what are IMHO the entry level gaming GPUs, the 7750/R5-250 (w/ gddr5) and the 650/740 (w/ gddr5).

Something I noticed, the 6750 reviewed is paired with 4770k, which alone probably boosts 30+ fps over most AMD cpu's at that resolution, so if amd gpu was inside 4770k I suspect the scores would b much closer :hmm: The apu is in a weird spot where the amd cpu is not powerful to push at 1280*1024 (compared to i7+6750)and at the same time if you move up the resolution, the gpu becomes memory-starved

 

[mrmt]

It's just whether amd cab execute.

It's not "just", it's the single most important part on the equation.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Something I noticed, the 6750 reviewed is paired with 4770k, which alone probably boosts 30+ fps over most AMD cpu's at that resolution, so if amd gpu was inside 4770k I suspect the scores would b much closer :hmm: The apu is in a weird spot where the amd cpu is not powerful to push at 1280*1024 (compared to i7+6750)and at the same time if you move up the resolution, the gpu becomes memory-starved

Which bench in particular are you talking about? None of those benches look particularly CPU bound to me, I think they only paired the 6750 with the 4770k to insure that there was no cpu bottleneck.

 

[sm625]

A 970M with a mobile haswelll dual core is already pretty damn close to hitting under 100 watts, and its performance is on par with a desktop 7850. You are setting the bar far too low if all you want is 7850 level performance for 100 watts. The problem is that AMD is so far behind that it cannot compete at all with nvidia discrete combined with an intel cpu. HBM alone wont even change this. Their cpu and gpu will both be too power hungry to compete in a given power envelope. This is totally inexcusable considering they have such an integration advantage.

 

[Gikaseixas]

AMD is coming out with a new and improved GPU and is getting released with mobile in mind. They've failed many times before but have also provided us with many innovations. I don't know about you guys but if stacked memory really takes off they're going to raise the bar pretty high.
Some here will never say anything positive because it's coming from AMD but remember that no one knows what's cooking and negative assumptions are based on the past.

 

[boozzer]

if APU can play games on medium with the native res of the latop, I am sold.

 

[Zodiark1593]

AMD is coming out with a new and improved GPU and is getting released with mobile in mind. They've failed many times before but have also provided us with many innovations. I don't know about you guys but if stacked memory really takes off they're going to raise the bar pretty high.
Some here will never say anything positive because it's coming from AMD but remember that no one knows what's cooking and negative assumptions are based on the past.

I'm just going by their track record. I've no doubt their GPUs will be great once we finally get stacked memory. I especially can't wait to see how far their flagship dGPU goes. However, their cpu performance has been less than stellar as of late, despite numerous promises of improved performance, they're still far from competing with Intel. This is concerning as more games start taxing the cpu.

The APU can have the best gpu and memory subsystem known to man, however, it still means jack if the CPU holds it back.

 

[mrmt]

Some here will never say anything positive because it's coming from AMD but remember that no one knows what's cooking and negative assumptions are based on the past.

And on what are the positive assumptions based upon?

 

[Phynaz]

negative assumptions are based on the past.

Exactly. AMD has a proven track record of not being able to execute. Do you have any evidence they have changed?

 

[Gikaseixas]

Exactly. AMD has a proven track record of not being able to execute. Do you have any evidence they have changed?

Do you have any evidence that they didn't????? Or that their next APU line up will suck??? If you know the future please share with us.

 

[Gikaseixas]

The APU can have the best gpu and memory subsystem known to man, however, it still means jack if the CPU holds it back

I agree with this 100%, their GPU side is really good so far but the CPU division is not so great lol but it doesn't mean they can't ever come up with something decent again. The message i'm trying to pass is for people to wait and then judge, don't be so quick to say it's garbage because nobody really knows.

 

[frozentundra123456]

AMD is coming out with a new and improved GPU and is getting released with mobile in mind. They've failed many times before but have also provided us with many innovations. I don't know about you guys but if stacked memory really takes off they're going to raise the bar pretty high.
Some here will never say anything positive because it's coming from AMD but remember that no one knows what's cooking and negative assumptions are based on the past.

It has got nothing to do with AMD. It is just a fact that igpus from both Intel and AMD fall short of even a borderline gaming discrete card like the HD7750. I am just as skeptical of all the hype regarding broad well and skylake igps. As dgpus become more powerful and games get more demanding, igps will have to show marked improvement just to stay in their current "almost good enough" position. Hell, even the 7770 that I have struggles badly with DA:I, and I shudder to think how it would perform in Watchdogs or ACU.

 

[Gikaseixas]

And on what are the positive assumptions based upon?

You apparently know everything about them, how come you don't know the answer for your own question? If i lay out something, i'm just giving what you want which is the usual bickering... something i'm sure people here know how it will going to end (not well)

 

[Gikaseixas]

It has got nothing to do with AMD.

Yeah sure

It is just a fact that igpus from both Intel and AMD fall short of even a borderline gaming discrete card like the HD7750.

If the bottleneck is removed from memory bandwidth, we might see performance that surpasses a HD7750. Of course newer dedicated cards will also improve but millions will finally be able to turn up graphics quality.

I am just as skeptical of all the hype regarding broad well and skylake igps.

And i would tell you the exact same thing. Give Intel the benefit of the doubt and wait until you see reviews.

As dgpus become more powerful and games get more demanding, igps will have to show marked improvement just to stay in their current "almost good enough" position.

This is correct but iGPUS are not meant to beat dGPUS just yet, maybe one day

Hell, even the 7770 that I have struggles badly with DA:I, and I shudder to think how it would perform in Watchdogs or ACU.

Your card struggles to play last gen games? I'm not really sure why you are shocked when high end cards are having a hard time in some new games also

 

[mrmt]

You apparently know everything about them, how come you don't know? If i lay out something, i'm just giving what you want which is the usual bickering... something i'm sure people here know how it will going to end (not well)

Not sure why you are so defensive. Before AMD designed the K7 and K8, we had evidence that they were up for something, they were acquiring bleeding edge node IP for its own foundry, they bought NexGen and acquired an entire team and IP from DEC, which was the cream in terms of CPU IP of the time, so we had signs that they were up for something, and they were growing at the time.

Today we have a company with a BoD in disarray, cutting R&D and personnel, reshufling the project pipeline every single year, retrating in most market they are in, and tied to a subpar foundry partner. What are the signs that they are getting back into shape? Do you think it's any easier to develop a highly complex project in such a poisonous environment?

I can't really see the silverlining here, maybe you could show us one.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yeah sure

If the bottleneck is removed from memory bandwidth, we might see performance that surpasses a HD7750. Of course newer dedicated cards will also improve but millions will finally be able to turn up graphics quality.

And i would tell you the exact same thing. Give Intel the benefit of the doubt and wait until you see reviews.

This is correct but iGPUS are not meant to beat dGPUS just yet, maybe one day

Your card struggles to play last gen games? I'm not really sure why you are shocked when high end cards are having a hard time in some new games also

Well, you can call me a pessimist if you like, but in my mind, anytime a prediction is made that is a marked change from the status quo, the burden of proof rests with the one who is making the prediction, not that someone else has to prove in cant happen. I have not seen any evidence, except vague rumors of stacked memory, to indicate there is a drastic change on the way. If you want to interpret that as some sort of bias against AMD, knock your self out.

 

[Phynaz]

Do you have any evidence that they didn't????? Or that their next APU line up will suck??? If you know the future please share with us.

Oh please, this is the best you can do, ask somebody to prove a negative?

Evidence they didn't - They fired their CEO and are laying off staff. You don't do that if you are performing well.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

I've no idea who would even buy an 80-stream R5 230 given 384-stream R7 250's are exactly the same $70 price on Amazon, with 640-stream R7 250X's GPU's for $10 more, and 896-stream R7 260X's not far behind. The R5 230 is total junk that would be overpriced even at $20.

I'm pretty sure that every salesman at Best Buy that sells one of those R5 230's will burn for eternity for the misdeed. It is truly robbery to charge $70 for such a lame card, but they are doing it every day.

All I can say to my friends is -- Newegg or Amazon.... Shop around online, please don't settle for anything less than an R7.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

if APU can play games on medium with the native res of the latop, I am sold.

Yeah, they are pretty much there right now. Just about every modern game runs on an A8 or A10 at 720p in medium detail. Some games can even manage a smooth 1080p, but for some of the newer games that is a bridge too far.

 

[nenforcer]

AMD is coming out with a new and improved GPU and is getting released with mobile in mind. They've failed many times before but have also provided us with many innovations. I don't know about you guys but if stacked memory really takes off they're going to raise the bar pretty high.
Some here will never say anything positive because it's coming from AMD but remember that no one knows what's cooking and negative assumptions are based on the past.