Architecture / Digital Design Workstation Build Help!

[IanE]

I've been away from PC news and construction for so long that I have NO idea what any of the current components are and how they perform, so I come to you fine gents for help!

I'm a 21 year old architecture major looking for a new workstation that will be more than I need for what I want to do and will last without struggle.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Will be doing high-end architectural applications as well as digital art. Software being used will be heavy 3D rendering in Revit, Rhino, 3Dsmax, Sketchup and so on as well as doing digital art in Photoshop CS4, Illustrator CS4, Corel Painter X and so on.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

Not sure. Whatever will do the job now and for several years to come, leaving open the ability to upgrade, but not making it necessary to upgrade very soon. Your good judgement is good enough for me.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc, etc, etc, you get the picture.

No brand preference. I prefer quality and ability over logo, but that does not mean I'm cool with shady off-brand companies that just started 3 weeks ago.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Edit: Only looking for computer parts, already have case, keyboard, monitor, etc.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

Outdated results and lower requirements, but yes.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Defualt speed - have had no previous experience with OC aside from BFG Tech video cards.

8. WHEN do you plan to build it?

June/July


Thank you all,

Ian

 

[mpilchfamily]

Of course the key components you need to forcuse on will be the Video card and RAM.

One thing you havn't covered is your budget for this build. Cause if its a loose budget then you could go with a nice workstation card.

You'll want to look into an i7 CPU from Intel. These will be your best perfromer. The motherboards use new DDR3 and perfrom best with 3 or 6 DIMMS of RAM. So you'll be able to easly put 6Gb to 12Gb of RAM in the system.

 

[elconejito]

"high-end architectural applications as well as digital art. Software being used will be heavy 3D rendering in Revit, Rhino, 3Dsmax, Sketchup and so on as well as doing digital art in Photoshop CS4, Illustrator CS4, Corel Painter X and so on"

You are a perfect candidate for an Intel i7 processor.

It would help more if you had at least some ballpark of price you're willing to pay. $500? $2000? Somewhere in the middle?

 

[IanE]

mpilchfamily: Thanks for the input!

elconejito: I was thinking i7, too. Done some reading up on them... ridiculous little things.

I left the budget out as I really don't have a justifiable knowledge of what would be reasonable these days. My last system was $2000, back in 2004, so sure, let's start at $2000 budget and see what happens.

 

[brblx]

the big question is if you're looking for a strong workstation graphics card, as that can make even an i7 look like peanuts.

i'd be looking to spend a solid 4-500 bucks on that, but they go on up past $1000.

 

[IanE]

brblx: See, that's the thing... I remember the Quadro cards back in 04 and 05 were monsters. What's the smart move these days? i7 920, lots of memory, and a heavy duty card?

 

[brblx]

i7's probably a good move considering your budget, and you might as well load up on DDR3, it's pricier than DDR2 but not ridiculously so. there probably aren't a ton of people on here with a lot of expertise in workstation GPU's, though (i certainly don't have it). what you need is all going to depend on how complex the stuff you're rendering is. you can do CAD and 3D work with no GPU acceleration at all, it just depends on what you're working on. probably best to get a recommendation on GPU from someone in your field, or maybe even contact the software developers and see what they recommend.

i'd be surprised if something like this didn't handle pretty much all you can through at it-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814195074

the quadro's seem a bit pricier, none of there newer cores are anywhere near the $500 mark...

 

[IanE]

Not sure what to do about memory, though. It seems there are 3 types of DDR3 1333 - 10600, 10660, and 10666... what's the difference between the 3 and which would be ideal for this sort of system?

Also, read some things about memory above 1.5 volts being unfriendly with i7. Any info on that?

What sort of PSU is something like this going to need as well?

As far as video card goes, do I need to strictly look at workstation cards, or are there equal, if not superior, alternatives in other cards as well?

 

[brblx]

you can get better tech for far cheaper in the mainstream GPU market, but afaik only a few can be modded to be compatible with the programs you're running. a 4890 or gtx275 or some such isn't going to have the drivers needed for your purposes.

i would look at a 650w psu, it's overkill (500w would do it) but there's enough watts per dollar in that range that you might as well not go much cheaper.

no idea about the i7 mem, i'll let someone using one chime in.

 

[dmw16]

You'll want a workstation card or you'll want to find a mainstream card that can be modded into it's workstation equivalent. Workstation cards are built for accuracy where mainstream cards are built for speed. For the type of work you are doing accuracy is key from your card.

With memory, just get the speed that matches your CPU as you won't be overclocking. And as for 1.5v, I am not sure on that, but stick with a quality brand (Corsair, Mushkin, Crucial, etc) and you should be fine.

For the PSU, I agree more wattage is better, but quality is key. Something in the 600-700 range is good. I'd suggest a Corsair power supply.

 

[elconejito]

Originally posted by: IanE
Not sure what to do about memory, though. It seems there are 3 types of DDR3 1333 - 10600, 10660, and 10666... what's the difference between the 3 and which would be ideal for this sort of system?

The bigger the number, the faster it is. This isn't a huge issue unless you're planning on OC'ing. There may be a couple percent increase with each step up so this is only a big deal if you're OC'ing.

Originally posted by: IanE
What sort of PSU is something like this going to need as well?

Get a high quality PSU. Wait until you've spec'd out all your other components but you can probably get a 500-650W PSU which should be plenty. If you do heavy OC'ing, lots of hard drives, big video card, etc you might need a little more.

Originally posted by: IanE
As far as video card goes, do I need to strictly look at workstation cards, or are there equal, if not superior, alternatives in other cards as well?

You can use regular video cards for these applications, but you get much higher performance from workstation cards (along with much higher cost too).

A really rough budget here...
CPU - $290 for an i7 920 (it's $230 if you have a Microcenter near you)
motherboard - $250-300
RAM - <$100 for 6GB
video card - no idea. Literally from $110 up to $3,000. Let's say $500 for estimating purposes
Nice case - $75-150
PSU - $100 for a Corsair 650W, for example
Hard drives - $75+
DVD drive - $30
Total - $1,400+

For your hard drives, what do you think your storage needs will be? Do you need redundancy? Really fast speeds? Really high storage?
Cheapest - 1x WD Caviar black 640GB. Very good, fast drive - $75
Little Better - 1x WD Caviar black 1TB - $100
Fastest, most expensive, smallest - 1x WD Velociraptor 300GB - $230

Really interesting idea, RAID 10. Requires 4 drives, but you get lots of speed, lots of space, and redundancy too.
4x WD Caviar black 640GB - $300 (this gets you 1.2TB of storage space, mirrored for redundancy, speed is approx 2x that of 1 drive.)

What I'd recommend is 1 WD Caviar black 640GB ($75) for OS/apps, 1 WD Caviar black 1TB ($100) for data/storage, 1 WD Caviar green 1TB ($90) in an external enclosure. Total about $265.

Make sure you have a backup plan, either with an external drive, and/or RAID, and/or offsite backups. The more important your data, the more you should invest in your backup strategy. Plan some money for extra drives for your backup. Even if you RAID your drives, you still need another backup in case your computer explodes, house catches on fire/floods, etc.

 

[dmw16]

I tried my hand at a system for you. It exceeds your budget (which you seemed flexible on), but I think it's pretty much all high end and there are some areas you can trim. Here we go...

CPU: Intel i7 940 - $549

Motherboard: Intel BOXDX58SO X58 - $249

RAM: 2x Corsair 3x2GB DDR PC10666 - $200

Graphics: PNY Quardro FX1800 768MB - $449

Hard Drive #1: WD VelociRaptor 300GB - $229

Hard Drive #2: WD Black Series 1TB - $99

DVD: Samsung 22X DVD Burner - $25

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 - $179

PSU: Corsair 620W Modular - $137

Monitor: Samsung T240HD 24" LCD - $329

Mouse: Logitech MX Revolution - $75

Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 - $48

Operating System: Windows Vista Business - $139

TOTAL: ~$2727 (not counting rebates OR shipping)

Some comments:

* You didn't mention having a keyboard/mouse, monitor, or OS so I threw all of them in there to build you a full system

* The case I selected was partially personal preference, there are nice cases around the $100 mark, but I think Cooler Master makes great cases.

* I chose the i7 940 over the 920. If you go with the 920 you'll save about $200 right there.

* I went with a very stand-alone storage setup. But if this will be in an office setting with a file server (which is probably a good idea for any work that makes you money) then you may not really need the 1TB drive.

 

[wwswimming]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Will be doing high-end architectural applications as well as digital art. Software being used will be heavy 3D rendering in Revit, Rhino, 3Dsmax, Sketchup and so on as well as doing digital art in Photoshop CS4, Illustrator CS4, Corel Painter X and so on.

with those applications you'll be doing fine with a regular video card that has stable drivers, that is, one that's been out for 9 months+ (so the manufacturer can sort out driver problems).

for example, a 4870 with 1 GB RAM.

i use some of the same aps. (Max, Maya, ZBrush, Photoshop) with a Sapphire 3870 card and it works fine.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: IanE ~ ~ ~

I'm a 21 year old architecture major looking for a new workstation that will be more than I need for what I want to do and will last without struggle.

Don't invest in 'more than you need'. Are you on a 5-year track? Graduate work? Design school?

I'd start with a really nice chair

Today's mid-range desktops perform at a level beyond workstations built 2 years ago. In the next 12-24 months GPGPU apps and hardware using OpenCL, CUDA, AMD CAL, Larrabee, etc. will be hot on the scene making today's hardware purchase look pit-tee-full.

An e8400 or PhII720BE and 64-bit (Win7 w/DX11) OS will be a nice start. Don't invest a wadd in your disks - SSDs will reach a sweet point in a year or so.

I'd make every effort to contact the 'big players' and explain to them that you are a student of architecture and 'volunteer' or enroll in any training or beta-testing program they offer (even the crappy ones to get your foot in the door). Don't limit yourself - go both Quadro and FireStream if possible (as you could easily build 2 rigs with you budget).

 

[dmw16]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: IanE ~ ~ ~

I'm a 21 year old architecture major looking for a new workstation that will be more than I need for what I want to do and will last without struggle.

Don't invest in 'more than you need'. Are you on a 5-year track? Graduate work? Design school?

I'd start with a really nice chair

Today's mid-range desktops perform at a level beyond workstations built 2 years ago. In the next 12-24 months GPGPU apps and hardware using OpenCL, CUDA, AMD CAL, Larrabee, etc. will be hot on the scene making today's hardware purchase look pit-tee-full.

An e8400 or PhII720BE and 64-bit (Win7 w/DX11) OS will be a nice start. Don't invest a wadd in your disks - SSDs will reach a sweet point in a year or so.

I'd make every effort to contact the 'big players' and explain to them that you are a student of architecture and 'volunteer' or enroll in any training or beta-testing program they offer (even the crappy ones to get your foot in the door). Don't limit yourself - go both Quadro and FireStream if possible (as you could easily build 2 rigs with you budget).

/Thread

 

[IanE]

Wow, thanks everyone! Lots of incredible insight here.

elconejito: Storage is a rather serious issue. I'm frequently generating 1-2GB files in Photoshop, and coupled with all the other software I use as well as hi-res photos and music, storage is definitely one of the priorities. I've never set up any RAID systems, though. Having a serious back-up plan is ideal. I've seen a few colleagues work on a project for months only to lose it literally 30 minutes before deadline... I don't plan on being "that guy."

dmw16: I came out with a similar system. Good to know I'm at least in the ballpark. I edited my original post to clarify: I have a case, monitor, keyboard, speakers, mouse, and I will agree that Cooler Master makes great cases! No file server, this will be my personal workhorse at home so as mentioned above the storage issue is quite critical.

heyheybooboo: Got the really nice chair 2 years ago, too much butt-action has made it not-so-nice, so on an off topic... any recommendations? haha. I'm starting my 3rd year of architecture school and going straight through my masters.

Clearly it appears $2,000 will do much more than enough.

It'd be nice to get more first-hand info from those of you in architecture and what you think.

 

[elconejito]

Your hard drive setup is probably one of the biggest variables in your cost. RAID will get you some combination of extra speed, or redundancy, but at additional cost. And it is still no substitute for a good backup plan.

The key is your data, because that is irreplaceable. The OS and Apps and always be reinstalled if necessary.

If you don't want to go RAID (or can't), Go with two internal drives, 1 is OS/Apps and 1 is storage. Then get at least one external drive to backup your storage.

If you can go RAID, go with 1 OS/Apps drive and 2 drives in RAID 1 for storage. I'd still advise an external drive to backup.

The RAID 10 I mentioned above is a good choice as well if you need more performance.

No matter which way you go, I'd also try and go with some off-site storage. This could be as simple as mailing a backup DVD to your family/friends who live in another state (Free). Or you can go with an online storage place like carbonite ($50 per year I think) or jungledisk (pay per GB), which both offer automatic backup tools.

Lots of options...

 

[dmw16]

Glad we are on the same page. Your big drivers are going to be video card and processor (920 vs 940). It's probably worth doing some research on the cards you can "softmod" into a workstation card.

Regarding storage, you may want to actually consider something like a ReadyNAS or similar NAS device. You can get two WD Green 1TB drives and set them up in RAID1. That will protect your data much better than most other options (aside from off-site backup which sounds like overkill for your needs).