Arguing against SLI

[amol]

Originally posted by: Edward Lee

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
Sounds like most of the SLI fans are Bush supporters as well.

And just when I thought your comments couldn't get any dumber.

Yep you're a Bush supporter...

OMG, i never thought i would say this to a fellow anti-bushie . . . but you, sir, are a FVCKING DUMTARD!

and, well . . . look who won the election . . . think about THAT before you make childish remarks

 

[Regs]

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My theory in technology is that its actually suppose to take up lesser space and use less mass in the future.
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For a given level of performance you are right. Just like in years past however running multiple functional elements in tandem is how the top level of performance is offered. This hasn't changed.

Yes you're right, but im not arguing the performance increase. Im arguing if it's a "viable" upgrade.

Like what you said, you can run anything at tandem to offer soupier performance. However, it seems like a year later the progress in technology can offer the same performance but in a cheaper and more efficient way.

 

[jvarszegi]

Originally posted by: Regs

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My theory in technology is that its actually suppose to take up lesser space and use less mass in the future.
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For a given level of performance you are right. Just like in years past however running multiple functional elements in tandem is how the top level of performance is offered. This hasn't changed.

Yes you're right, but im not arguing the performance increase. Im arguing if it's a "viable" upgrade.

Like what you said, you can run anything at tandem to offer soupier performance. However, it seems like a year later the progress in technology can offer the same performance but in a cheaper and more efficient way.

Definition of "viable"

It's viable. You say that you agree that it gives a performance increase; hence, you agree that it is both possible and effective. A year later, you can definitely pick up last year's cards cheaper than the new ones; this means that it allows at least an economically efficient strategy. I won't argue about thermal dissipation, power use, etc., because I'm not well-qualified.

 

[Regs]

-Capable of living, developing, or germinating under favorable conditions-

By no means does the ability to offer better performance make something a viable product. For instance If I wanted to crank up the voltage on my video card while increasing the frequency to 20-30% inherently decreasing the cards life span to about 3 months, would that make it viable? Would that make it last longer even if it offered the same performance increase?

The bottom line is this. If you have the money to burn, get it. However there are some instances on this message board where the red flag should be lifted.

Like when a user decides to use two 6600GTs in SLI. He is:

a. not able to afford two 6800GTs in SLI
b. spending 200 dollars more on a motherboard just to have the same performance as one 6800GT
c. willing to have to have a high quality case and a PSU
d. willing to have to spend on the next upgrade on either a higher class card or two next-generation mid-range cards which could later result into more problems.


Is it worth it to that user? You decide. I find the decision, frankly, very easy right now.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Yes you're right, but im not arguing the performance increase. Im arguing if it's a "viable" upgrade.

It is here and it works. Its viability is proven.

Like what you said, you can run anything at tandem to offer soupier performance. However, it seems like a year later the progress in technology can offer the same performance but in a cheaper and more efficient way.

Current IEG offerings are faster then V2 SLI when it launched and that tallied up $600 when new. Your comment is simply how the technology industry has always worked, why don't you sell off your rig and slap togeter an 80286 machine to use? You would save yourself quite a bit of money that way. OK, we'll take your argument to its logical conclusion- no game require anything higher then ~1.2GHZ processor and a GeForce3 Ti200 to run so therefore you should not run anything faster then that as it is a waste of money. That is where that argument will eventually end.

Like when a user decides to use two 6600GTs in SLI. He is:

a. not able to afford two 6800GTs in SLI
b. spending 200 dollars more on a motherboard just to have the same performance as one 6800GT
c. willing to have to have a high quality case and a PSU
d. willing to have to spend on the next upgrade on either a higher class card or two next-generation mid-range cards which could later result into more problems.

Two 6600GTs in particular-

A- They are cheaper then a single 6800GT looking at PCI-E parts
B- You can find SLI mobos for $200, so I'm not sure where these free ones are you can get
C- Nothing more then a 6800GT takes, actually it's likely a bit less
D- The next upgrade will be pushed back further at least

That is also the worst possible utilization of SLI for the moment. The real benefit is either picking up one 6600GT now and waiting for the price to drop, or moving up to the 6800 parts where their performance in SLI mode exceeds any singular card currently available if you are looking for SLI now, or offers the potential to give you a major boost in performance at some point down the road.

As far as the promised upcoming solutions from ATi- they have lied about every 'SLI' type part they have offered in the past to consumers, I'm not holding my breath. It would be nice to see Intel/VIA/nVidia/SiS all offer support at the chipset level in some sort of defined standard interface, but I'm not holding my breath for either of those. Right now, SLI is here, it works, it is hands down the highest performing setup you can buy and it still doesn't push the price of a new system to what it was not that long ago.

 

[Omizzle]

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
1) Not practical to have 2 seperate graphics cards. 1 dual processor would be better
2) CPU Bottleneck means you'll never be able to take full advantage of the power
3) Expensive to build and maintain and will never become mainstream.
4) Better graphics cards and the lack of mainstream support will make SLI obsolete again.
5) A proven failed technology of the past.
6) Once you build an SLI machine be prepared to keep it for a long time.
No one will buy it from you. The upkeep will be too much for most people to afford.

heres a pro: two video cards working together

See, that shuts your argument down. 2 video cards working together means no video card upgrades for another few years.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Amol

Originally posted by: Edward Lee

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
Sounds like most of the SLI fans are Bush supporters as well.

And just when I thought your comments couldn't get any dumber.

Yep you're a Bush supporter...

OMG, i never thought i would say this to a fellow anti-bushie . . . but you, sir, are a FVCKING DUMTARD!

and, well . . . look who won the election . . . think about THAT before you make childish remarks

He's such a moron, I refuse to even acknowledge his comments anymore. How the fvck you get SLI = Bush supporter, I have no idea. I think what happened is that he realised he didn't (and still doesn't) understand what the hell he was talking about, so he just shifts to a TOTALLY unrelated topic. Just completely moronic.

 

[Tea Bag]

Originally posted by: Edward Lee

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Edward Lee
Sounds like most of the SLI fans are Bush supporters as well.

And just when I thought your comments couldn't get any dumber.

Yep you're a Bush supporter...

Well, look at this guy's other posts and youll realize what an idiot he is.. He won't like the results of this thread so he'll start a new one. YET AGAIN.

Oh yea.. SLI. I was interested at first, but then I started to price out all of the upgrades that I would have to make for 939. My computer plays games good enough. I'll consider a dual-GPU solution when the price drops and there is some healthy competition between the big two for this market.

 

[jrphoenix]

Will the supposed introduction of Direct X 10 (Longhorn timeframe) cause SLI setups to be obsolete (with a current generation card)? I don't know if there will be a huge difference with Direct X 9.0 to 10.0... if image quality is a difference the person upgrading to another card in 2 years would not be getting the image quality (even if they are getting the performance) of those buying the new technology. Just a thought. If you have the money go for it

 

[TantrumusMaximus]

I don't want to really try and debate about the "technical" side of whether SLI is good or not but ...

I think I can add something to the debate of SLI, since most of the discussion is oriented around COST justification.

When a new proc comes out there is a premium to purchase it. Generally an unrealistic premium. Yet people will purchase that part because they WANT it. Look at the 939 pin FX55 which goes for what around $800? Yet people will buy it. Because they can, does that guy care about the premium, doubtful, he/she will make up for the premium with performance and bragging rights for about 6 months.

I've never been one to buy the best CPU, but quite frankly it isn't about CPU's anymore so much. It's all about the video card horsepower. If I myself were building a new system right now (I am) I would try and get the best parts that make the most difference in the gaming performance of that system.... quite frankly it is an SLI solution.

When I blow my money on PC parts I don't even bother about the thoughts of "What about when something better comes out?" It is completely irrelevant (there is not a good technical purchase it all becomes worthless) when it comes to these types of situations. If you can afford it in the first place, generally the next upgrade will be just as expensive.

When I upgrade I rarely just buy a new CPU and plop it into an existing motherboard because generally some new features are available that I can not miss out on by combining a new MB + CPU, and then add to that faster RAM etc etc. USB 1.1 to 2.0, now many Firewire ports, SATA, SATA RAID, DUAL NICs the list goes on. Every upgrade has so many choices and I'm so glad we have them!!! Be thankful that companies like ATI, Intel, AMD, and nVidia exist... their competition fuels our demand for more features and as costly as it is.... SLI is one of them.

It comes down to:

What are you willing to spend on YOUR enjoyment?
Do you care about using any of your existing parts in future upgrades?
Will your current parts trickle down to other systems you own?
How much do you love your gaming experience?

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: element
I will be sticking to the 1 video card solutions because if you look back 2 years ago i for example, got a geforce 4 4200 for my athlon 2400+ rig. Now imagine if that 4200 were sli capable. Would i invest in another 4200 today to double the performance? No, I'd want a newer direct x 9 card, not 2 direct x 8 cards.

I just think 2 years from now all these cards will be obsolete and you just spent ~$75 extra for nothing.

Agreed!

And it's not even doubling! It's increasing it by 50-70% at a 100% price increase.

 

[MetalStorm]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: element
I will be sticking to the 1 video card solutions because if you look back 2 years ago i for example, got a geforce 4 4200 for my athlon 2400+ rig. Now imagine if that 4200 were sli capable. Would i invest in another 4200 today to double the performance? No, I'd want a newer direct x 9 card, not 2 direct x 8 cards.

I just think 2 years from now all these cards will be obsolete and you just spent ~$75 extra for nothing.

Agreed!

And it's not even doubling! It's increasing it by 50-70% at a 100% price increase.

If you look back 2 years, you also had the 9700Pro or 9500pro if they were SLI capable, then you could have a second one today, both are DX9 cards. I know you're going to say that they aren't SM3 but i know that, but that has no IQ difference as it is. I'm also aware that they are ATi cards, but ATi is also planning their own form of SLI.

 

[KoolDrew]

Any new technology is goign to be expensive and someone always says exactly what you are saying...

 

[Regs]

Ok, all these people in this thread who support SLI that don't even have a damn SLI set up. I give up.

Go recommend someone to get a buggy NF4 motherboard please.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Ok, all these people in this thread who support SLI that don't even have a damn SLI set up. I give up.

All of your points have been disproven, it is logical to give up under those circumstances.

Go recommend someone to get a buggy NF4 motherboard please.

Compared to a buggy POS VIA based board that so many people around here run, why not?

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Ok, all these people in this thread who support SLI that don't even have a damn SLI set up. I give up.

All of your points have been disproven, it is logical to give up under those circumstances.

Go recommend someone to get a buggy NF4 motherboard please.

Compared to a buggy POS VIA based board that so many people around here run, why not?

My points can't be "disproven"(not exactly in the english dictionary). Neither can yours. Not unless we turned into a fortune teller over night.

And those buggy Nf4 boards are selling for over 200 dollars compared to the buggy VIA Chipsets that were introduced at 120 dollars.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Regs
Ok, all these people in this thread who support SLI that don't even have a damn SLI set up. I give up.

Good . . . you never had an "argument" against SLI . . . just your own personal reasons.

. . . thanks for sharing
:roll:

 

[remagavon]

SLi means more options for us consumers, that's FANTASTIC, not a bad thing.

The only thing that has drastically changed in the graphics industry is that companies are saving money by using more partially bad cores for lower end gpus than they has previously, which are drastically slower in certian circumstances.

With the Geforce2 series, you had the GTS/PRO/ULTRA that were all basically identical, just clocked differently. The sub $200 MX is the exception to this. People seem to think that you were able to buy a card for $150 and get $400 performance and that simply was not true at all.

Those people might have purchased the midrange card once it dropped to low end pricing (low end is $100-200), but these cards were introduced at least with an $199 retail MSRP. The Geforce2 GTS was $300-350 when it came out, I still have a PC Gamer that says that. It was easier to wait for prices to drop at that time because the software wasn't as demanding as it is now.

The Geforce2 Ti4200 was again introduced at $199, and because some people purchased it months after introduction and clocked it to ~4400/4600 speeds it is thought that todays cards must be able to do that.

The memory interface was universally 128-bit then (in the GF4 generation) which basically set the stage for it to be assumed every generation must have unified bandwith architecture. It was great at the time, but those days are over folks. Even the 64mb Radeon 8500 came out for around $300, and it was ATi's only offering outside of the LE which was $250ish for a while, I don't know the MSRP)

As far as I'm concerned the $100-200 market has been (for the past 3+ years) and always will be garbage, cut down, graphics. You go up another hundred bucks and you have something worthwhile.

With SLi you get performance now. If someone has the money to spend it is foolish to recommend against it, if their main focus is gaming. Personally I can't wait for ATi's implementation of SLI, an after having bad experiences with my 6800 cards I will probably switch back over to ATi, but nVidia does have a very good technology that not only is great for marketing, but it puts out fantastic performance in games that we play NOW.

Personally I wish there wasn't such a large disparity between the high end and low end parts so that software guys could create great performing things for everyone, but that isn't going to happen.

Just my 2 cents

 

[BenSkywalker]

My points can't be "disproven"(not exactly in the english dictionary).

Middle English, from Old French desprover- disproven. What do they teach kids in school these days?

Not unless we turned into a fortune teller over night.

Pricing and flexibility are your main arguments. For pricing you can find much better then the numbers you like to quote. For flexibility it is the most flexible option you can find.

And those buggy Nf4 boards are selling for over 200 dollars compared to the buggy VIA Chipsets that were introduced at 120 dollars.

The VIA chipset parts don't have the feature set the NF4 SLI does, even ignoring SLI itself.

 

[ssvegeta1010]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: element
I will be sticking to the 1 video card solutions because if you look back 2 years ago i for example, got a geforce 4 4200 for my athlon 2400+ rig. Now imagine if that 4200 were sli capable. Would i invest in another 4200 today to double the performance? No, I'd want a newer direct x 9 card, not 2 direct x 8 cards.

I just think 2 years from now all these cards will be obsolete and you just spent ~$75 extra for nothing.

Agreed!

And it's not even doubling! It's increasing it by 50-70% at a 100% price increase.

Although I agree with your main point about SLI being worthless as an immediate performance boost, the argument is on its upgradability.
Upgrading 2 or so years later may translate to a 50-70% performance increase for 50-70% price increase.

 

[TantrumusMaximus]

remagavon what problem HAVE you had with your 6800's? I am going SLI with two BFG Tech 6800GT's have not ordered yet but so far that is what I'm thinking of sticking in my A8N-SLI.

 

[jvarszegi]

Originally posted by: Regs
Ok, all these people in this thread who support SLI that don't even have a damn SLI set up. I give up.

Go recommend someone to get a buggy NF4 motherboard please.

I've got a damn SLI setup, although I only have one graphics card in it at the moment. It's the most stable computer I've ever seen. Unless you have an unstable nForce4 system, I cordially invite you to STFU.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: drpootums

Originally posted by: element
I will be sticking to the 1 video card solutions because if you look back 2 years ago i for example, got a geforce 4 4200 for my athlon 2400+ rig. Now imagine if that 4200 were sli capable. Would i invest in another 4200 today to double the performance? No, I'd want a newer direct x 9 card, not 2 direct x 8 cards.

I just think 2 years from now all these cards will be obsolete and you just spent ~$75 extra for nothing.

Agreed!

And it's not even doubling! It's increasing it by 50-70% at a 100% price increase.

While I appreciate price/performance curves myself, you guys are forgetting the first step in the equation and that is "the minimum level of performance would satisfy thier requirements" before applying the price/performance martix.

Todays single graphics cards will not play 16x12+ max AA max AF, for those interested in playing such, SLi is the starting point, now go find p/p.

 

[thereaderrabbit]

it seems like a few of you don't understand why sli is back.

yes, sli allows improved graphics for a price. yea, it's a real treat in today's market...

but it is here now, and only sounds tempting for one reason. the graphic features offered by nvidia and ati are starting to stagnate once again, so speed is becoming top dog. once credible new features are being offered, sli will fade into the wood work. i mean, what's the point of the sli upgrade path if it lacks critical features. this is what killed the voodoo line- more speed but less features than the stand alone nvidia product of the day.

-reader out

 

[apoppin]

All of these "arguments" against SLI are stupid . . . . expect ATI's 'SLI' - called "AMR" in Q2 - THIS year!
:shocked:
(!)

Ati's "SLI"

ATI found a way to make its SLI work without this interconnection. In ATI's case, whenever it makes its SLI ready, you will just plug two graphic cards in motherboard powered with ATI chipset and it will all work without interconnection PCB or cable.

The upcoming chipset will have hardware support for dual graphic card rendering mode. It will be all done through the chipset and we guess that it will be wired in the new RS482 and RX482 chipsets. All the communication between two cards will be done through motherboard or chipset wires.

ATI is working hard to catch up with Nvidia in the SLI game, and it will try to make its chipset and drivers ready for launch as soon as possible. This is expected sometime in Q2 2005.

i guess ati is "stupid" too
:roll: