ASROCK is misleading their customers!

[dave_the_nerd]

G41 wasn't a premium, OC'able chipset, was it?

 

[Meghan54]

I'd only buy ASRock for their high end boards.

You'd be surprised how well even the cheapie AsRock boards perform. I've built more than a dozen with their "bottom feeder" boards and have yet to have one single problem.

Then again, being "bottom feeder" boards, they are what they are.

 

[tweakboy]

What a bunch of As*rocks ,,,,,, I mean holes..............

 

[thetom]

...It is a legacy platform now.

DDR3 is "legacy platform" these days?

I too will stay away from Asrock boards made in 2009 or earlier.

Get real. This is a DDR3 motherboard with 2012 as "Year of production" on the import sticker. Heck, even the "Quick installation guide" has "Published June 2010" written in it, so it can't be "2009 or earlier".

G41 wasn't a premium, OC'able chipset, was it?

That's besides the point. Point is that packaging is misleading / bordering with false advertising. Look, I finally got a camera so I took pictures of packaging details along with my BIOS menu. Clearly, they are trying to appeal to OC crowd, but the actual features of their product are lacking:

My OC Tuner is lacking CPU voltage control too:

 

[Broheim]

DDR3 is "legacy platform" these days?

no, but a G41 board sure as hell is.

 

[Deders]

You could use something like CPUz to see if there are any voltage changes as you increase the MHz

 

[thetom]

no, but a G41 board sure as hell is.

Can we drop the "legacy" argument please? I already stated the year of production is 2012, and even newegg has the board "in stock" at this moment.

You could use something like CPUz to see if there are any voltage changes as you increase the MHz

Nope, vcore stays the same even at 3Ghz (240 FSB) and even setting all other voltage options available to maximum won't make it boot into windows at 266 FSB.

http://valid.canardpc.com/2705338

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, ASRock is guilty of false, or at the very least, misleading advertising.

I had purchased an older board, an 865G/PE board, that listed "Untied Overclocking". Of which, one of the sub-features was vcore. Yet, my board completely lacked any sort of vcore adjustment.

Seems ASRock is still playing the same game with their more modern "budget" boards.

OP, consider a vcore pinmod if you are serious about attempting an OC on this board.

Edit: As I said, in order to obtain their claimed OC for their E5200 CPU, ASRock may have been using a vcore pin-mod themselves.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Sigh marketing.

What it says on the box is that under some circumstances on some boards the OC Tuner utility has been able to do a 143% overclock on an E5200.

What it doesn't say is that it will do a 143% overclock on this particular board.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sigh marketing.

What it says on the box is that under some circumstances on some boards the OC Tuner utility has been able to do a 143% overclock on an E5200.

What it doesn't say is that it will do a 143% overclock on this particular board.

Then that is pretty clearly misleading information, putting it on the box for THIS board, if that OC never applied to THIS board, but rather, some OTHER board.

That's like buying a car, and seeing "Best Gas mileage: 55mpg", and then finding out that spec came from a different car (their most efficient car in their lineup, not the one you are buying).

 

[pauldun170]

DDR3 is "legacy platform" these days?



Get real. This is a DDR3 motherboard with 2012 as "Year of production" on the import sticker. Heck, even the "Quick installation guide" has "Published June 2010" written in it, so it can't be "2009 or earlier".

Get common sense

Designed in 2008-2009, released in 2009 using a (budget) chipset that dates to 2007. It's bios was updated 2 times, once in 2010 and again in 2012 hence your "2012" indicating it likely has the 2012 BIOs.
Asrock of 2009 is a very different company than it is today.
This is one of their legacy products kept in production to serve the niche legacy market.

You are complaining about one of their legacy budget boards. You have a right to complain about that board but that board does not reflect Asrock as a company today. Perhaps you should have done more research prior to purchasing this board because so far I'm not seeing any "bait and switch".

If you are not seeing the option in the bios, perhaps they removed in a bios release because they decided it is a bad idea to push a low end board like that (allowing users to fine tune using vcore). You can check out previous bios (going back to 2009) to see if that is the case. http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/G41C-GS/?cat=Download&os=BIOS

More likely they simply do not have it in the bios and instead you are supposed use the OC Tuner as indicated in the manual and the packaging AND the marketing materials.

Have you attempted to OC using the OC Tuner?
The marketing says that using the OC tuner you can achieve "up to" the figure provided.

What are your results?

 

[pauldun170]

Sigh marketing.

What it says on the box is that under some circumstances on some boards the OC Tuner utility has been able to do a 143% overclock on an E5200.

What it doesn't say is that it will do a 143% overclock on this particular board.

By having the label on the board, it implies that the board can achieve (under some circumstances) the overclock using the OC Tuner.

As long as users can achieve a close to or equal the figure using OC tuner than I don't see ho wit can be misleading.

The OP is complaining because he doesn't have vcore, hence the abilty to fine tune manually.
the marketing makes not such claims about bios features. all it say is that by using the OC Tuner, you can see "Up to 143% CPU frequency increase"

 

[coffeejunkee]

By having the label on the board, it implies that the board can achieve (under some circumstances) the overclock using the OC Tuner.

As long as users can achieve a close to or equal the figure using OC tuner than I don't see ho wit can be misleading.

The OP is complaining because he doesn't have vcore, hence the abilty to fine tune manually.
the marketing makes not such claims about bios features. all it say is that by using the OC Tuner, you can see "Up to 143% CPU frequency increase"

Ehm, yes I read the thread. What I'm saying is that strictly speaking Asrock isn't saying anything about the board itself. They put a sticker on the box stating their Asrock OC utility (I repeat: the utility, not the boards itself) has been able to get a 143% oc out of an E5200. Nothing is mentioned about adjusting vcore. And to completely cover themselves they included the words "up to", so even if you can get only 1MHz it still lives up to the claim. Actually, even 0 MHz does.

For totally uninformed customers this is certainly misleading. But it happens all the time in the tech industry and it's a reason why sites like AT and so many others exist. Now I just wonder about OP tech level, he knows about vcore and ddr3 but also expects to get almost 150% overclock from a 50$ budgetboard with clearly very simple power circuitry.

 

[Torn Mind]

DDR3 is "legacy platform" these days?



Get real. This is a DDR3 motherboard with 2012 as "Year of production" on the import sticker. Heck, even the "Quick installation guide" has "Published June 2010" written in it, so it can't be "2009 or earlier".

Legacy platform in this context refers to whole hardware configuration, not just RAM type. For motherboards, what CPUs they run is the most important factor in determining whether they're legacy or not, so the focus is on the chipset(G41) and socket(775).

Core 2 Duo has been completely supplanted since Sandy Bridge and the LGA 1155 socket came to town. You cite RAM as it not being legacy, but if we're going to cherry pick particular hardware, then I can say the FSB is legacy, the northbridge graphics is legacy, the northbridge itself is legacy,the PATA connectors are sure as hell legacy.


So what if they're factory is making it now? It's still for old chips no longer in production. Anything that is supplanted by something new becomes legacy. The chipset is ancient. The Panther Point chipsets are the latest chipset. Cougar Point and further back are all legacy. Hell, it still sports the old Intel GMA 4500 HD and PATA connectors onboard.

DDR3 refers to RAM type, not the entire platform. Back in the day, there were LGA 775 motherboards that used DDR2 RAM, but the motherboard could still be considered part of the "latest" because its chipset was for LGA 775 chips.

 

[max347]

Can we drop the "legacy" argument please?

Not really. You can buy a board with a serial port and IDE port today. Does that make them cutting edge? No man, c'mon, be reasonable for a minute.

I understand the frustration here, but honestly can't pin it on AsRock right now. Everyone who builds computers knows that overclocking is not only YMMV, but also depends on the motherboard.

If I am looking for a motherboard to overclock with, I am certainly not just going to look at what it tells me on the box. I am not even just going to look at what BIOS options it has. I am going to read every review I can find on it to see what other people have run into. I am going to look up if it has a 4/8/etc phase power delivery. I am going to see if anyone had the same chip and board and what they could achieve.

Honestly it seems like someone bought a board without doing due diligence. Yeah, marketing bull$hit sucks, but honestly if you can build a computer, you can spot $hit from Shinola with that stuff.

 

[pauldun170]

Legacy platform in this context refers to whole hardware configuration, not just RAM type. For motherboards, what CPUs they run is the most important factor in determining whether they're legacy or not, so the focus is on the chipset(G41) and socket(775).

Core 2 Duo has been completely supplanted since Sandy Bridge and the LGA 1155 socket came to town. You cite RAM as it not being legacy, but if we're going to cherry pick particular hardware, then I can say the FSB is legacy, the northbridge graphics is legacy, the northbridge itself is legacy,the PATA connectors are sure as hell legacy.


So what if they're factory is making it now? It's still for old chips no longer in production. Anything that is supplanted by something new becomes legacy. The chipset is ancient. The Panther Point chipsets are the latest chipset. Cougar Point and further back are all legacy. Hell, it still sports the old Intel GMA 4500 HD and PATA connectors onboard.

DDR3 refers to RAM type, not the entire platform. Back in the day, there were LGA 775 motherboards that used DDR2 RAM, but the motherboard could still be considered part of the "latest" because its chipset was for LGA 775 chips.

Just as a side note, that board has both DDR2 and DDR3 slots.
Despite folks not being happy about marketing materials, it does seem like a cheap affordable and flexible solution for those looking to milk a few years out of their old procs.

I do not blame Asrock for skimping on enthusiast features (such as vcore) on a low end (and cheap) board whose sole pupose is to milk a few years out of old obsolete components.

 

[pauldun170]

Ehm, yes I read the thread. What I'm saying is that strictly speaking Asrock isn't saying anything about the board itself. They put a sticker on the box stating their Asrock OC utility (I repeat: the utility, not the boards itself) has been able to get a 143% oc out of an E5200. Nothing is mentioned about adjusting vcore. And to completely cover themselves they included the words "up to", so even if you can get only 1MHz it still lives up to the claim. Actually, even 0 MHz does.

I'm still curious to see if the OP tried to match the claims.
I'd like to know how accurate the OC Tuner claim is.

For totally uninformed customers this is certainly misleading. But it happens all the time in the tech industry and it's a reason why sites like AT and so many others exist. Now I just wonder about OP tech level, he knows about vcore and ddr3 but also expects to get almost 150% overclock from a 50$ budgetboard with clearly very simple power circuitry.

I would think that any customer out looking for 775 motherboard (that also works with both DDR2 AND DDR3 memory) should be happy they can still buy one new and cheap, complete with a warranty.
I wonder what the phase design on it is...
Might want to nab one as an emergency spare.

 

[RU482]

ASROCK is where the junior engineers cut their teeth at ASUS

 

[VirtualLarry]

You think lack of vcore adjustment on a budget chipset (G41) board is bad...

check this board out. It's a lower-cost Z77 (you know, the current newest chipset, MADE for overclocking), and it too lacks vcore adjustment!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=GA-Z77-DS3H

 

[Rvenger]

You think lack of vcore adjustment on a budget chipset (G41) board is bad...

check this board out. It's a lower-cost Z77 (you know, the current newest chipset, MADE for overclocking), and it too lacks vcore adjustment!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=GA-Z77-DS3H

No it doesn't, it has Dynamic Vcore adjustment. (Basically Vcore offset)

 

[coffeejunkee]

No it doesn't, it has Dynamic Vcore adjustment. (Basically Vcore offset)

Cons: You can't adjust Vcore voltage. Stupid. Overclocking on this board is a waste of time.

Cons: Extremely limited BIOS overclocking options, even with the latest BIOS version.

The overclocking on this board seems artificially limited as a marketing thing as opposed to limitations of the chipset. Gigabyte does not allow you to adjust the CPU Vcore, so stable overclocking is virtually impossible.

So these guys are wrong? In any case, no expectations were raised with the box art.

Also, just because it's a chipset made for overclocking you can't automatically expect it does. Intel DP67DE and Asrock Z68 mITX are examples of this, even though you can freely adjust bios they will just throttle to stock speeds under any sort of load.

 

[tweakboy]

What a horrible BIOS. Check for BIOS updates on that board at As*rock gl

 

[thetom]

I'm still curious to see if the OP tried to match the claims.
I'd like to know how accurate the OC Tuner claim is.

I tried overclocking using the OC Tuner and I get BSOD after around 240 FSB, which is the same wall I reach as manually clocking trough bios. After 240, I cant get into Windows.

"OC Tuner" offers nothing else except being able to change and test those values from BIOS, but without restarting computer. It does not have any additional features over BIOS. OC Tuner's very .ini configuration for this board has no part about "vcore"(while .ini files for other boards do), and this is definitely a proof that ASROCK could NOT have OC'd E5200 to 3,57GHz on this board. Posting that on the board is stupid, intentional or just plain reckless towards customers.

I have had people in here tell me to return the board, to read stuff before purchase, and even questioning my IT knowledge. To all of you I have this to say:

I have been overclocking stuff since AMD 462 socket, and have been visiting anandtech forums for couple of years now. I never claimed to be an "liquid nitrogen cooling" kind of guy, but I do have some basic knowledge on how things work. I have not even purchased this board for sole purpose of overclocking. My CPU is running at 3GHz now @ default vcore, and it is perfectly fine for what I need it. Even with vcore option, I probably would not have been able to OC past 3,4 without some serious increase in the CPU voltage.

But all of that is besides the point. The point is that I AM disappointed in ASROCK as a company because I have found out first-hand that they are using cheap tricks to gain profit and this is why I will stay away from them, from now on. I just wanted to inform everybody else in here about it, and also people who might be looking a review of it.

 

[Lex Luger]

You obviously don't have the knowledge necessary for overclocking. The fact that you tried to overclock a socket 775 cpu to 3.6 on that motherboard says it all. You're lucky you didnt blow one of the mosfets.

Anyone with overclocking experience would of took one look at that motherboard and knew instantly that it was strictly a STOCK only motherboard.

The weak VRM setup with no heatsinks is a dead giveaway for a budget motherboard.

 

[thetom]

You obviously don't have the knowledge necessary for overclocking. The fact that you tried to overclock a socket 775 cpu to 3.6 on that motherboard says it all. You're lucky you didnt blow one of the mosfets...

I am wondering if you took the time to read what I wrote 10 minutes ago:

My CPU is running at 3GHz now @ default vcore, and it is perfectly fine for what I need it. Even with vcore option, I probably would not have been able to OC past 3,4 without some serious increase in the CPU voltage.

Unfortunately, it is people like you that bring most confusion to forum discussions, as you feel confident replying on basis of what you saw by scrolling trough in couple of seconds. Than, someone like you will just pick up where you left off and create even bigger mess.