Assult rifle ban to expire!!

cy7878

Senior member
Jul 2, 2003
394
0
0
I am all for a safe society. I vote Democrat. But I think it is wrong for a law biding citizen like me to not be able to buy a mechanically sophisticated piece of modern machinery. Cars kill more people in a year than guns do, if I can go out and buy a H2 Hummer that can plow thru a crowded street and kill the same number of people that a assult rifle can armed with 30 round clip, THAT is wrong.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
its just about the only amendment the adminstration has defended instead of plowing over. you have the right to bear arms, to defend yourself in a duel with zell miller and against cheney's planned terrorist attacks
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
I wish i could buy nukes. I mean, nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Give me my nuke.

Man, I can't believe they let us buy sharp pencils. A person could stab 100s of people in the neck with that thing and kill the same number of people as a H2 or an assault rifle.

As you might be able to see, whether something is legal has nothing to do with the POTENTIAL to kill. There's a crapload of stuff that can do that, like my fist, a hammer, a nail, etc. It has to do with the PURPOSE of the something. What is the PURPOSE of an h2? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of a pencil? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of an assault rifle? To inflict harm on/to kill something, whether it be animal or human. It's because one of the central purposes of the assault rifle is to KILL other people that it needs to be banned.
 

Hecubus2000

Senior member
Dec 1, 2000
674
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
I wish i could buy nukes. I mean, nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Give me my nuke.

Man, I can't believe they let us buy sharp pencils. A person could stab 100s of people in the neck with that thing and kill the same number of people as a H2 or an assault rifle.

As you might be able to see, whether something is legal has nothing to do with the POTENTIAL to kill. There's a crapload of stuff that can do that, like my fist, a hammer, a nail, etc. It has to do with the PURPOSE of the something. What is the PURPOSE of an h2? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of a pencil? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of an assault rifle? To inflict harm on/to kill something, whether it be animal or human. It's because one of the central purposes of the assault rifle is to KILL other people that it needs to be banned.

Do you even know what the Assault Weapons Ban is?

 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
i think the assault weapons ban should stay, there is absolutely no reason a normal citizen should need an assault weapon. I dont see how a pistol or shotgun can't protect you well enough from intruders and the like. And hunting w/ an assault rifle just isnt right, takes the fun out of it
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
I wish i could buy nukes. I mean, nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Give me my nuke.

Man, I can't believe they let us buy sharp pencils. A person could stab 100s of people in the neck with that thing and kill the same number of people as a H2 or an assault rifle.

As you might be able to see, whether something is legal has nothing to do with the POTENTIAL to kill. There's a crapload of stuff that can do that, like my fist, a hammer, a nail, etc. It has to do with the PURPOSE of the something. What is the PURPOSE of an h2? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of a pencil? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of an assault rifle? To inflict harm on/to kill something, whether it be animal or human. It's because one of the central purposes of the assault rifle is to KILL other people that it needs to be banned.


your missing or skiping over the fact that many things are multi purpose, many people like to target shoot, many people own guns for home defense, and many feel they should be at least as well armed as any potential intruder. i for one own an AK47 among other weapons and have had it for a number of years

BTW could you define what an "assualt rifle" actuallyis?

 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
i think the assault weapons ban should stay, there is absolutely no reason a normal citizen should need an assault weapon. I dont see how a pistol or shotgun can't protect you well enough from intruders and the like. And hunting w/ an assault rifle just isnt right, takes the fun out of it


i disagree, there is one good reason, home defense.

as far as hunting with an assault rifle, isnt shooting the deer "assualting" it? do you think the deer really cares what type of stoack the weapon has, or if it has a 10 or 30 round magazine?

and this brings us to another obvious question, do you really think a criminal cares about what gun laws say? they could(and do) get illegal weapons, what good does it do disarming law abiding cititzens?

 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Yeah, now instead of a real gun like a Remington 700 in .270 caliber, I can buy a wildly overpriced piece of crap like an AR15 in the mighty .223 caliber. And what would a civilian-use weapons be without the bayonet lug! Having slept with an M4 for a pillow for many years, I was a happy camper to be rid of that turd. Of course, if you want one, have at, I have nothing against you being able to purchase your personal choice in firearm, no matter how impractical.

Of course, I'm going to pick up a dozen or two high cap mags for my Sig Sauer 229 come Tuesday...
 

Darthmayxj

Banned
Apr 18, 2002
9
0
0
I too agree with Shad0hawk. That ban doesn no good at keeping assault weapons out of the hands of criminals. It just makes it harder for people like myself to obtain these weapons. I have never been in trouble with the law and yet it is imposiblle for me to buy a weapon just because i few of the dumb people among us have abbused the right and now people like myself have to pay for it. If they ban doesnt get renewed i am going to buy 10 assault rifles just to say i could. Hey shadow....tell us about the test you did to prove that guns arent dangersous.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: cy7878
I am all for a safe society. I vote Democrat. But I think it is wrong for a law biding citizen like me to not be able to buy a mechanically sophisticated piece of modern machinery. Cars kill more people in a year than guns do, if I can go out and buy a H2 Hummer that can plow thru a crowded street and kill the same number of people that a assult rifle can armed with 30 round clip, THAT is wrong.

No, no, the government knows better than you.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: ntdz
i think the assault weapons ban should stay, there is absolutely no reason a normal citizen should need an assault weapon. I dont see how a pistol or shotgun can't protect you well enough from intruders and the like. And hunting w/ an assault rifle just isnt right, takes the fun out of it


i disagree, there is one good reason, home defense.

as far as hunting with an assault rifle, isnt shooting the deer "assualting" it? do you think the deer really cares what type of stoack the weapon has, or if it has a 10 or 30 round magazine?

and this brings us to another obvious question, do you really think a criminal cares about what gun laws say? they could(and do) get illegal weapons, what good does it do disarming law abiding cititzens?

good point...
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: glenn1
Yeah, now instead of a real gun like a Remington 700 in .270 caliber, I can buy a wildly overpriced piece of crap like an AR15 in the mighty .223 caliber. And what would a civilian-use weapons be without the bayonet lug! Having slept with an M4 for a pillow for many years, I was a happy camper to be rid of that turd. Of course, if you want one, have at, I have nothing against you being able to purchase your personal choice in firearm, no matter how impractical.

Of course, I'm going to pick up a dozen or two high cap mags for my Sig Sauer 229 come Tuesday...

im going to get some more 25 round clips for my 10/22 still my fav weapon out of the bunch!

BTW you could always buy an ar15, and even a civilian version of the m4

 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
0
0
These people just need to learn how to aim Better. Then they would only need one shot.
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: ntdz
i think the assault weapons ban should stay, there is absolutely no reason a normal citizen should need an assault weapon. I dont see how a pistol or shotgun can't protect you well enough from intruders and the like. And hunting w/ an assault rifle just isnt right, takes the fun out of it


i disagree, there is one good reason, home defense.

as far as hunting with an assault rifle, isnt shooting the deer "assualting" it? do you think the deer really cares what type of stoack the weapon has, or if it has a 10 or 30 round magazine?

and this brings us to another obvious question, do you really think a criminal cares about what gun laws say? they could(and do) get illegal weapons, what good does it do disarming law abiding cititzens?

good point...

TY

i actually can understand about some things like a bayonnet lug, but my old m44 has a 12 bayonnet and it is kind of a nice conversation piece, besides if a criminal had the intent to stick me with a bayonnet, he would most likely never get close enough...



 

cy7878

Senior member
Jul 2, 2003
394
0
0
Originally posted by: totalcommand
I wish i could buy nukes. I mean, nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Give me my nuke.

Man, I can't believe they let us buy sharp pencils. A person could stab 100s of people in the neck with that thing and kill the same number of people as a H2 or an assault rifle.

As you might be able to see, whether something is legal has nothing to do with the POTENTIAL to kill. There's a crapload of stuff that can do that, like my fist, a hammer, a nail, etc. It has to do with the PURPOSE of the something. What is the PURPOSE of an h2? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of a pencil? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of an assault rifle? To inflict harm on/to kill something, whether it be animal or human. It's because one of the central purposes of the assault rifle is to KILL other people that it needs to be banned.


You are missing the point. In your line of argument, we should also ban high power sports cars like the POrsches GT, and ALL the Ferraris since there is not a single state in the union that will aloow speeds above 75MPH, yet all these cars are designed to go 150+ mph. And the people who buy them will eventually break the law by speeding, therefore they need to be banned!!

I want a MP5 simply because it is marvelous to hold and look at, sensational to use (from what I have heard), truely an amazing piece of machinery. I don't ever intend to use it. I just want to have one. The gub laws made owning one impossible in my state. In states where IT IS possible, the law have made what would be a $800 gun into a $18000 one.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
I have an AK-47 romanian. It didn't have a thread for a silencer and a baynot lug. If you knew how the ban worked, you could easily buy any gun you want.

The best thing about the ban coming off is the reduction in prices and the return of 30 round magazines.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
ASSAULT WEAPONS THREATEN PUBLIC SAFETY

THE FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPONS ACT

The federal law banning the sale of semiautomatic assault weapons, known as the Federal Assault Weapons Act, was passed as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. President Clinton signed it into law on September 13, 1994.

However, the assault weapons ban will expire ("sunset") in September 2004 unless President George W. Bush and Congress renew it. That means that UZIs, AK-47s and other semiautomatic assault weapons could begin flooding our streets again as the weapons of choice for gang members, drug dealers and other dangerous criminals.

The Act bans, by name, 19 different weapons:

Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
Colt AR-15;
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
Steyr AUG;
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, AND TEC-22;
revolving cylinder shotguns such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12.
In addition, the Act makes it unlawful to "manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic" firearm that can accept a detachable magazine and has more than one of several specific military features, such as folding/telescoping stocks, protruding pistol grips, bayonet mounts, threaded muzzles or flash suppressors, barrel shrouds, or grenade launchers.1 The Act also bans "copies or duplicates of the firearms [listed above], in any caliber,"2 although this provision has never been enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which is entrusted to enforce the ban. Further, the Act bans large capacity magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.3 However, assault weapons and large capacity magazines legally possessed on the effective date of the Act remain legal under the Act's "grandfather clause."4 The Act also specifically exempts by name 661 sporting rifles and shotguns traditionally used for hunting.5

ASSAULT WEAPONS: "MASS PRODUCED MAYHEM"

The guns covered by the Assault Weapons Act are semiautomatic versions of fully automatic guns designed for military use. Whereas an automatic weapon (machine gun) will continue to fire as long as the trigger is depressed (or until the ammunition magazine is emptied), a semiautomatic weapon will fire one round and instantly load the next round with each pull of the trigger. Even semiautomatic assault weapons fire with extraordinary speed. When San Jose, California, police test-fired an UZI, a 30-round magazine was emptied in slightly less than two seconds on full automatic, while the same magazine was emptied in just five seconds on semiautomatic.

The military features of semiautomatic assault weapons are designed to enhance their capacity to shoot multiple targets very rapidly. For example, assault weapons are equipped with large-capacity ammunition magazines that allow the shooter to fire 20, 50, or even more than 100 rounds without having to reload. Pistol grips on assault rifles and shotguns help stabilize the weapon during rapid fire and allow the shooter to spray-fire from the hip position. Barrel shrouds on assault pistols protect the shooter's hands from the heat generated by firing many rounds in rapid succession. Far from being simply "cosmetic," these features all contribute to the unique function of any assault weapon to deliver extraordinary firepower. They are uniquely military features, with no sporting purpose whatever.

As ATF has explained:

Assault weapons were designed for rapid fire, close quarter shooting at human beings. That is why they were put together the way they were. You will not find these guns in a duck blind or at the Olympics. They are mass produced mayhem.6

These weapons "are not generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" and instead "are attractive to certain criminals."7 The firepower of assault weapons makes them especially desired by violent criminals and especially lethal in their hands. Prior to the Act, although assault weapons constituted less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they were a far higher percentage of the guns used in crime. ATF's analysis of guns traced to crime showed that assault weapons "are preferred by criminals over law abiding citizens eight to one....Access to them shifts the balance of power to the lawless."8

Mass Slayings of Civilians
Assault weapons have been used to perpetrate some of the worst mass murders ever committed in the United States.

The McDonald's shooting - On July 18, 1984, James Huberty killed 21 people and wounded 19 others in a San Ysidro, California, McDonald's using an UZI assault pistol and a shotgun.9

The Stockton schoolyard massacre - On January 17, 1989, Patrick Purdy killed 5 small children and wounded 29 others and a teacher at the Cleveland Elementary School in Stockton, California, using a semiautomatic version of the AK-47 assault rifle imported from China. That weapon had been purchased from a gun dealer in Oregon and was equipped with a 75-round "drum" magazine. Purdy shot 106 rounds in less than 2 minutes.10

The Louisville, Kentucky, workplace massacre - On September 14, 1989, Joseph Wesbecker killed 7 people and wounded 13 others at his former place of work in Louisville, Kentucky, before taking his own life. Mr. Wesbecker was armed with an AK-47 rifle, two MAC-11 assault pistols, and a duffle-bag full of ammunition.11

The CIA headquarters shootings - On January 25, 1993, Pakistani national Mir Aimal Kasi killed 2 CIA employees and wounded 3 others outside the entrance to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. Kasi used a Chinese-made semiautomatic AK-47 assault rifle equipped with a 30-round magazine purchased from a Northern Virginia gun store.12

The Branch-Davidian standoff in Waco, Texas - On February 28, 1993, while attempting to serve federal search and arrest warrants at the Branch-Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, four ATF special agents were killed and 16 others were wounded with an arsenal of assault weapons. According to a federal affidavit, the cult had accumulated at least the following assault weapons: 123 AR-15s, 44 AK-47s, 2 Barrett .50 calibers, 2 Street Sweepers, an unknown number of MAC-10 and MAC-11s, 20 100-round drum magazines, and 260 large-capacity banana clips. The weapons were bought legally from gun dealers and at gun shows.13

The San Francisco Pettit & Martin shootings - On July 1, 1993, Gian Luigi Ferri killed 8 people and wounded 6 others at the San Francisco law offices of Pettit & Martin and other offices at 101 California Street. Ferri used two TEC-DC9 assault pistols with 50-round magazines. These weapons had been purchased from a pawnshop and a gun show in Nevada.14

http://www.bradycampaign.org/f.../issues/?page=aw_renew
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: smashp
These people just need to learn how to aim Better. Then they would only need one shot.

Well, considering LEOs in the USA have a hit percentage of 17%, and considering the vast majority of shootings they are involved in is under 15 feet, and most of those are under 7 feet... I'd say people wanting over 10 rounds isnt unreasonable. After all, that 17% isnt "good hits" or "CM hits" or "hits in vital areas". 17% managed to make contact with some part of the target's body, including grazing shots, extremity hits, etc.

Do you really think you could hit CM on a moving target 30+ feet away after taking a big IV shot of epinephrine? First time, every time? While in bad lighting conditions? After just waking up? Freehand, and quickly? That is a bad case scenario, but you have to plan for the the worst realistic cases.

Sure, I'm a good pistol shot. I think I could hit a moving target at 30 feet in less than optimal lighting, after mainlining some epinephrine, a fair percentage of the time. Not every time... and you definitely want to be able to do it every time before running out of ammo. And this is all without the pucker factor. Thus, I am not using a Thompson Contender as my home defense firearm.
 

Bulk Beef

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
5,466
0
76
Originally posted by: cy7878
Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
AR-15 all the way... if I can get one... definitely will be modded

Why not go Full On with a M-16?
I realize that you started this thread, but do you actually know what the AWB covers?

 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
I'm disappointed that they banned a gun called the 'Street Sweeper.' I guess I can go pick one up now though!
 
Feb 24, 2001
14,513
4
81
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I'm disappointed that they banned a gun called the 'Street Sweeper.' I guess I can go pick one up now though!

No, that's a destructive device. Completely different class of firearm than an AW. Same goes for full auto, like an M16. Has nothing to do with this ban. You can't get them any easier now than yesterday.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,801
4,891
136
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: totalcommand
I wish i could buy nukes. I mean, nukes don't kill people, people kill people. Give me my nuke.

Man, I can't believe they let us buy sharp pencils. A person could stab 100s of people in the neck with that thing and kill the same number of people as a H2 or an assault rifle.

As you might be able to see, whether something is legal has nothing to do with the POTENTIAL to kill. There's a crapload of stuff that can do that, like my fist, a hammer, a nail, etc. It has to do with the PURPOSE of the something. What is the PURPOSE of an h2? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of a pencil? not killing. What is the PURPOSE of an assault rifle? To inflict harm on/to kill something, whether it be animal or human. It's because one of the central purposes of the assault rifle is to KILL other people that it needs to be banned.


your missing or skiping over the fact that many things are multi purpose, many people like to target shoot, many people own guns for home defense, and many feel they should be at least as well armed as any potential intruder. i for one own an AK47 among other weapons and have had it for a number of years

BTW could you define what an "assualt rifle" actuallyis?




Rifles with clips holding 30 or more rounds of high velocity ammunition capable of easily penetrating the body armor worn by the majority of Law Enforcement Officers in the United States.
 
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