ATi 4xxx Series Review

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Kuzi
What's this then Sapphire HD4870 512MB GDDR3

The specs further down the page read GDDR5.

 

[Kuzi]

My bad then, maybe they had a typo. It seems they removed the product details that said DDR3.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: munky

You're "wowed" by the fact that NV is releasing a factory OC'd 9800gtx (which still costs more than a 4850), giving it a confusing name, and spreading rumors with no actual product to show? :laugh:

No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870.

That's just an illusion from those green tinted glasses... In reality, the 9800gtx needs an OC just to match a 4850,

So wait AMD finally releases a card to match the 9800GTX and all it takes is a minor clock bump and driver tweak to rain on their parade.

The rumor IS the spoiler... I don't believe in miracle drivers, especially the kind that works magic for a 2 year old architecture without IQ cheats and hacks.

Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850, so a minor clock bump and driver tweak is hardly a miracle. It's only standard.

 

[taltamir]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...-force-3d--powercolor/
Guru3d released a pathetic article...

You will have sheer decoding perfection on both the HD 4850 and 4870. Low CPU utilization whilst scoring maximum image quality. One improvement has been made as well: you can now upscale your 1920x1080 streams fine towards for example a 2560x1600 sized monitor (no more black borders).

I wouldn't trust a reviewer this ignorant about graphics..

But we might as well add it to the list.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: munky

You're "wowed" by the fact that NV is releasing a factory OC'd 9800gtx (which still costs more than a 4850), giving it a confusing name, and spreading rumors with no actual product to show? :laugh:

No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870.

That's just an illusion from those green tinted glasses... In reality, the 9800gtx needs an OC just to match a 4850,

So wait AMD finally releases a card to match the 9800GTX and all it takes is a minor clock bump and driver tweak to rain on their parade.

The rumor IS the spoiler... I don't believe in miracle drivers, especially the kind that works magic for a 2 year old architecture without IQ cheats and hacks.

Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850, so a minor clock bump and driver tweak is hardly a miracle. It's only standard.

See Wreckage you are saying thing without providing no evidence to your argument.

"No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870. " WHERE IS THIS 9800GTX+ ?

" Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850 " MM.. Were is the result with link to back your argument.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: munky

You're "wowed" by the fact that NV is releasing a factory OC'd 9800gtx (which still costs more than a 4850), giving it a confusing name, and spreading rumors with no actual product to show? :laugh:

No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870.

That's just an illusion from those green tinted glasses... In reality, the 9800gtx needs an OC just to match a 4850,

So wait AMD finally releases a card to match the 9800GTX and all it takes is a minor clock bump and driver tweak to rain on their parade.

The rumor IS the spoiler... I don't believe in miracle drivers, especially the kind that works magic for a 2 year old architecture without IQ cheats and hacks.

Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850, so a minor clock bump and driver tweak is hardly a miracle. It's only standard.

The 9800GTX does compete with the 4850, but in general it is certainly slower. I doubt a 60ish MHz bump in core speed on the 9800GTX is going to close the gap. And how much faith are you willing to put into Nvidia's drivers? They haven't proven to be all that wonderful, but now they are supposed to magically produce all this performance on the G92 core that they've had for a while now? Maybe by the time AMD releases the 6850XT we'll see all the performance the 9800GTX has to offer.

 

[chewietobbacca]

It might just be a simple error on their part. As stated, they had ONE day to do their reviews since they got their cards on Monday and it was suddenly lifted yesterday. Someone was probably working late at night. Might also be why sites like Anandtech don't have theirs up yet since they probably received theirs recently

 

[taltamir]

mmm... if they meant 1920x1200... and no more black borders as in, no borders on all FOUR sides...
But that doesn't make sense, there is no such thing as 1920x1200 content... all HD is 1080p/i or 720p/i.
And even then it is often 23:1 ratio so it comes with black borders on top and bottom

 

[dadach]

nvidia guys are finding typos in the reviews...ati must be onto something

 

[taltamir]

I love competition, and this round is full of it

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986


"No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870. " WHERE IS THIS 9800GTX+ ?

That was my point as he mentioned the 4870 first and then knocks the 9800GTX+ for not being out yet. Pure hypocrisy.

" Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850 " MM.. Were is the result with link to back your argument.

There is a reviews thread for the 4850 on the top of the page here. You may want to look at it. Guru3D has an official review out (NDA just got lifted).

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870.

After you show me where I can buy a gtx260.

So wait AMD finally releases a card to match the 9800GTX and all it takes is a minor clock bump and driver tweak to rain on their parade.

AMD releases a card that beats the 9800gtx and costs less. All NV has done is spread rumors on how they plan to "rain on the parade"

Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850, so a minor clock bump and driver tweak is hardly a miracle. It's only standard.

If the 9800gtx was doing so fine against the 4850 then why is NV spreading all the damage control rumors?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: taltamir
mmm... if they meant 1920x1200... and no more black borders as in, no borders on all FOUR sides...
But that doesn't make sense, there is no such thing as 1920x1200 content... all HD is 1080p/i or 720p/i.
And even then it is often 23:1 ratio so it comes with black borders on top and bottom

And black borders are a good thing as you generally want to view video in it's original aspect ratio whenever possible.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Wreckage
No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870.

After you show me where I can buy a gtx260.

So wait AMD finally releases a card to match the 9800GTX and all it takes is a minor clock bump and driver tweak to rain on their parade.

AMD releases a card that beats the 9800gtx and costs less. All NV has done is spread rumors on how they plan to "rain on the parade"

Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850, so a minor clock bump and driver tweak is hardly a miracle. It's only standard.

If the 9800gtx was doing so fine against the 4850 then why is NV spreading all the damage control rumors?

Hehe... good point. The 9800GTX is competing so well against the 4850 that they are bumping it's clock for yet another respin of the G92, tweaking the driver, and lowering it's price. Sounds like the 4850 and 9800GTX must be neck and neck.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: tuteja1986


"No actual product to show? Well then show me a 4870. " WHERE IS THIS 9800GTX+ ?

That was my point as he mentioned the 4870 first and then knocks the 9800GTX+ for not being out yet. Pure hypocrisy.

Go back and re-read the post. I'm discussing the 4850, and it definitely wasn't me who mentioned the 4870 first.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: chizow
Huh? NV has produced 3 generations of product (G80, G92, GT200) now without answer from ATI. RV770 is their first competitive product in almost 2 years but its still competing more against last-gen than current products. Its their 3rd refresh of essentially the same part and as I said originally, it would've actually been impressive if it had launched against G92 and not GT200.

"Its their 3rd refresh of essentially the same part" - Um, you're talking about Nvidia, right?

You can ignore what's been said over and over and maybe you've deluded yourself into believing it but for the rest of us still interested in honest evaluations and critiques, here it is: the RV770 is not designed to compete against the GT200 by itself. It's laughable you keep on criticizing it for not having the same single GPU performance as the GT200 when that's never its objective/design/goal/result. It doesn't compete "more against last-gen than current products" - it competes - and successfully at that - against those products that Nvidia CURRENTLY sells. The only credibility you've lost is yours with this ridiculous line of attack. AMD has committed itself to multi-GPU solutions for the high-end. And what will your line be when when 4870X2 provides superior performance to the GT280? Since you've already rigged the contest so that the only performance that matters is single GPU performance ipso facto the GT280 will in your solipsistic world always be better than the 4870X2!

Many ppl seem ready to conclude that AMD has gone the multi-GPU route because it's short on cash. That's obviously Nvidia's thinking, which brags that AMD doesn't have the big balls like it does (seriously, is Nvidia run by businessmen or frat boys?). While capital was undoubtedly a big, if not deciding factor for AMD, that doesn't mean multi-GPU wasn't also a technically sound solution to a looming problem: bigger and more expensive chips with diminishing performance returns. I wonder why Nvidia, which likes to make a big show of how much money it takes to develop a new GPU, has in fact been tweaking and refining its G80 architecture for three generations now? Why, it's allowed AMD back into the ballgame at all? If it really was advancing at the pace that it and its partisans like to brag, why its mid-end part has been caught and surpassed by AMD's mid-end part and why its high-end part looks like it will be surpassed by AMD's high-end part by summer's end? Hot air and arrogance almost always hides panic and there's certainly a lot of both coming from Nvidia and its partisans.

Just read this on TechReport:

"What remains now is for us poor slobs in the press to get the products tested and publish our findings as soon as we reasonably can. One wonders whether all of this fuss is worth it, especially on Nvidia's part. It really may not matter. The Radeon HD 4850 kicks more ass than a pair of donkeys in an MMA cage match."

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
NDA has lifted? Full review at Guru3d.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...-force-3d--powercolor/

Due to AMD unexpectedly lifting the NDA five days sooner than planned, we have not been able to go as in-depth in this review as we typically do. We returned with cards one day after AMDs press event, which was merely yesterday.

according to this review, performance looks simply amazing for the price! kudo to AMD!
i suppose the heat problem can be handled by a better coolor.. for $199, its a steal!

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: munky

After you show me where I can buy a gtx260.

Who even mentioned the 260? You can't show me one even though you brought it up. Just admit to being a hypocrite. It's the first step for your recovery.

AMD releases a card that beats the 9800gtx and costs less. All NV has done is spread rumors on how they plan to "rain on the parade"

It beats it? In every game? Please show that link. It costs less? Please link to newegg how much a 4850 costs. You got nothin'.

If the 9800gtx was doing so fine against the 4850 then why is NV spreading all the damage control rumors?

What damage control. They are dropping the price on their last gen card and providing a new driver and clock bump for it. This is pretty standard stuff. Where have you been? So now ATI finally releases a new card to compete in the last gen and you think that's news....

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: taltamir
mmm... if they meant 1920x1200... and no more black borders as in, no borders on all FOUR sides...
But that doesn't make sense, there is no such thing as 1920x1200 content... all HD is 1080p/i or 720p/i.
And even then it is often 23:1 ratio so it comes with black borders on top and bottom

And black borders are a good thing as you generally want to view video in it's original aspect ratio whenever possible.

correct.

Originally posted by: dadach
nvidia guys are finding typos in the reviews...ati must be onto something

I am not an nVidia guy. Nor is it a typo, it is a fundamental mistake that shows the author doesn't know what he is talking about.

Corrupting the aspect ratio is a BAD thing... and it is not a new thing either.
My 50 year parents don't know jack about such hardware. But when their TV was ruining the aspect ratio in its upscaling they complained to me that "everyone looks fat on TV, come fix it so they look normal again" or was it "tall as rails"? I forgot...

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Early reviews show the old 9800GTX doing just fine against the 4850, so a minor clock bump and driver tweak is hardly a miracle. It's only standard.

Originally posted by: Wreckage

I will wait for official bencharks, as these "previews" are usually very flawed

Are they only flawed when they show the 4850 winning?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: munky


Go back and re-read the post. I'm discussing the 4850, and it definitely wasn't me who mentioned the 4870 first.

You mentioned the 4870 prior to my mention of the 9800GTX+ and then you got in a huff about the 9800GTX+ not being available yet had not problem talking about the 4870.

Although I'm sure you know all this and don't want to admit to it.

 

[Wreckage]

Are they only flawed when they show the 4850 winning?

Actual mainstream sites that were under NDA are now releasing benchmarks. Guru3D for one. Techreport has stated they are working on one now, I imagine Anandtech will have one soon.

Those I can trust.

 

[HurleyBird]

From Guru3D

"Effectively this product can poop out 1000/1200 GigaFLOPs of performance. Depending on how that is measured of course."

:facepalm:

 

[Klinky1984]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
That is pretty sweet pricing.

I can't believe how cheap it is these days to set up a system

Midrange CPU ~200
Good Board ~150
2GB RAM ~35
Good Video Card ~200

I remember spending

low end cpu ~250
low end board ~100
1gb ddr ~150
midrange video card ~300

So much bang for your buck these days

You must have been buying from the wrong people. You also neglect that the E2160 from Intel is a great overclocker, I have mine @ 3Ghz & it only cost me $75. Also you can find a decent motherboard for $100 or less, if you don't need SLI or the LANPARTYGAMERXTREMEDELUX3Z edition. Actually now that I think of it I don't think I've ever spent more than $100 on a CPU. This goes back to 2000/2001 when I got a Duron 600 & ran it @ 950Mhz.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: HurleyBird
From Guru3D

"Effectively this product can poop out 1000/1200 GigaFLOPs of performance. Depending on how that is measured of course."

:facepalm:

lol