ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's sad to see the Nvidia fanboys in full force here. Unfortunately it seems that even the moderators cannot be free from their own inherent bias.

From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

ATI has a real winner on their hands and the only ones who can't see it are the idiots who are still trying to argue about trivial things like stupid rumors that flew by weeks and months before this product's release.

Relax there man...fanboy? hardly...

Face the facts. People said it beat the GTX295. It doesn't beat the GTX295.

That's all I said. DX11 doesn't matter because it cannot be used now. When there's a game that uses DX11 then we can evaluate cards that can use that API. Until then we rely on DX9/DX10/OpenGL performance comparisons.

Try not to be worked up over trivial things like someone's opinion of the hype machine.

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

lol "discredited"?

When the proper Dual GPU card is released and measured head to head, it'll spank the Nvidia's dual GPU solution. I'm sure you're already working on moving the goal posts though.

The 5870 also give 8xAA performance with minimal impact over 4xAA. It's got objectively perfect AF. It's DX11 compliant. It's fast and efficient. For you, it's just the wrong manufacturer.

You're calling mods fanboys now? Sheesh...calm down a bit.

Your first part was mentioned previously, by me...

Yes. I am. "Member of Nvidia Focus Group" Esp. those with fiscal benefits for their affiliation.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: RobertR1

When the proper Dual GPU card is released and measured head to head, it'll spank the Nvidia's dual GPU solution. I'm sure you're already working on moving the goal posts though.

The X2 card may be compared to nV's previous gen at launch, but then it will be followed by a GX2 card.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: RobertR1

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

lol "discredited"?

When the proper Dual GPU card is released and measured head to head, it'll spank the Nvidia's dual GPU solution. I'm sure you're already working on moving the goal posts though.

The 5870 also give 8xAA performance with minimal impact over 4xAA. It's got objectively perfect AF. It's DX11 compliant. It's fast and efficient. For you, it's just the wrong manufacturer.

You're calling mods fanboys now? Sheesh...calm down a bit.

Your first part was mentioned previously, by me...

Yes. I am. "Member of Nvidia Focus Group" Esp. those with fiscal benefits for their affiliation.

If anyone bothers to read posts by Keys, I am quite certain he has praised ATI and has absolutely nothing against using an ATI card if it provided the features he wanted.

That's exactly my stance. I own a GTX295 and will continue to do so until either 1) it's outclassed handily 2) it's too slow to be viable for use or 3) it breaks.

Call me a fanboy if you want to, I know the truth about my purchase decisions and it has nothing to do with the card having a green logo on it.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: bearnet2001

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

No, the 5870 hasn't discredited itself by not living up the larger-than-the hype, the people spreading the hype have discredited themselves. When you take those over-sized expectations out of the picture and just focus on the card for what it is, it's a success.

I agree 100% with bearnet2001.

Look, there were a lot of hype and rumors surrounding the 5870. The fact is that it is a more than solid upgrade to ATI's previous generation of video cards at a price that is palatable.

Are the 5870's as cheap as the 4xx0 series? No. But it's not the gouging that went on when nVidia had the undisputed lead. Not that I blame nVidia for that, it's just business after all. If I were an nVidia shareholder I'd be PO'ed if they didn't try to maximize profits. It just sucks from a consumer standpoint.

While the GT300 hasn't received much hype yet, but I'm sure it will have its own share of hype and rumors. Should we crap on that as well if it doesn't live up to some unreal expectations?

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
If anyone bothers to read posts by Keys, I am quite certain he has praised ATI and has absolutely nothing against using an ATI card if it provided the features he wanted.

That's exactly my stance. I own a GTX295 and will continue to do so until either 1) it's outclassed handily 2) it's too slow to be viable for use or 3) it breaks.

Call me a fanboy if you want to, I know the truth about my purchase decisions and it has nothing to do with the card having a green logo on it.

Keys has indeed praised ATI in the past, and even recent past. I just feel he's a little too Gung Ho on certain nVidia technologies at times. Not that there's anything wrong with liking a company's product. It's also not like he's trying to ram nVidia down our throats. I have zero problem with Keys even though I may disagree with him at times because he is relatively objective in his views.

If you own a GTX295, there's really no reason to upgrade yet. It'll take a while for games to utilize DX11 in a meaningful way and GTX295 is still a darned powerful card.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: akugami

Originally posted by: bearnet2001

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Compddd

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
After reading several of the reviews, it seems like 4890CF or 275SLI are better deals then the 5870, sometimes rather easily in terms of price/performance.

Those two consume more power and it won't be that long before it catches up with you. Not to mention the 5870 is a single card and you don't have to worry about scaling issues, profiles, or the dreaded minimum framerate hiccups.

Trying to discredit the 5870 is the only thing I can think of for making such an opinion.

I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

And @ OneofTheseDays. READ

No, the 5870 hasn't discredited itself by not living up the larger-than-the hype, the people spreading the hype have discredited themselves. When you take those over-sized expectations out of the picture and just focus on the card for what it is, it's a success.

I agree 100% with bearnet2001.

Look, there were a lot of hype and rumors surrounding the 5870. The fact is that it is a more than solid upgrade to ATI's previous generation of video cards at a price that is palatable.

Are the 5870's as cheap as the 4xx0 series? No. But it's not the gouging that went on when nVidia had the undisputed lead. Not that I blame nVidia for that, it's just business after all. If I were an nVidia shareholder I'd be PO'ed if they didn't try to maximize profits. It just sucks from a consumer standpoint.

While the GT300 hasn't received much hype yet, but I'm sure it will have its own share of hype and rumors. Should we crap on that as well if it doesn't live up to some unreal expectations?

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
If anyone bothers to read posts by Keys, I am quite certain he has praised ATI and has absolutely nothing against using an ATI card if it provided the features he wanted.

That's exactly my stance. I own a GTX295 and will continue to do so until either 1) it's outclassed handily 2) it's too slow to be viable for use or 3) it breaks.

Call me a fanboy if you want to, I know the truth about my purchase decisions and it has nothing to do with the card having a green logo on it.

Keys has indeed praised ATI in the past, and even recent past. I just feel he's a little too Gung Ho on certain nVidia technologies at times. Not that there's anything wrong with liking a company's product. It's also not like he's trying to ram nVidia down our throats. I have zero problem with Keys even though I may disagree with him at times because he is relatively objective in his views.

If you own a GTX295, there's really no reason to upgrade yet. It'll take a while for games to utilize DX11 in a meaningful way and GTX295 is still a darned powerful card.

Agreed. The hype was too much. It's one thing to be excited and another to declare Nvidia dead before the card was released.

I'm happy there's some decent competition at least on paper at the moment. There will be no excuse to have a vastly inferior card except that Nvidia messed up that round and I will be there to admit that Nvidia screwed themselves in one way or another. I might even be interested in a 5870x2 in the future.

 

[ronnn]

Very nice spot for ati. They have a dx11 card out for sale with a voucher for dirt 2. Nvidia has their usual viral pr staff saying don't buy with added free mod type advice.

Looks like nice profit for ati at best and no profit for anyone at best for nvidia. Should be interesting.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Part of me thought the 5870 would have been more than what it seems to be. Another part thought it would at least be constantly as fast as a 4870x2, even faster because there would be no CF overhead. I thought it should be as fast as 4890's in CF with 100% scaling in all games. But, that doesn't seem to be happening. The bright side is, it is the fastest single core GPU around now. And in CF, two 5870's mostly dominate. And the power savings at idle is a vast improvement over the 4xxx series. Well done AMD.

The beta driver thingy really doesn't hold much water though. This isn't a new architecture. It's a doubling of everything the 4890 was/is with the same 256 bit bus. Expect the standard performance improvements that the last few Catalyst drivers provided for the 4xxx series with the next driver updates. They should have went 512 bit IMHO. But, they wanted to keep their dies as small as possible. So, they made the tradeoff.

Picture AMD making a 128-bit GDDR5 4890. Double it. You get a 256-bit GDDR5 5870.
This card is starving IMHO. They should have just went for the gold and saved the 256-bit bus for their mainstream cards. 5770 or the like.

IMHO

I agree about the drivers, the architecture is very similar for someone to expect great perf. improvements in the 2009 timeframe.
About the memory bandwidth, i wrote before a week (based on the AMD slides) that 5870 will need something like 6Gbps ICs to show its true colors.
There is no freakin way for the 5870 to be extremely bandwidth limited (need for much more than 6Gbps) and ATI to keep the 80TUs design.
It's a waste of transistor space.
Now that we have more benchmarks, i think that there are other reasons also.
From what i can tell, i suspect that there are Geometry/vertex performance issues and Geometry/vertex shading performance issues.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

In another note, i didn't get Ryan's comment about 14 SIMD and 192bit mem bus in the upcoming Juniper based cards.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Very nice spot for ati. They have a dx11 card out for sale with a voucher for dirt 2. Nvidia has their usual viral pr staff saying don't buy with added free mod type advice.

Looks like nice profit for ati at best and no profit for anyone at best for nvidia. Should be interesting.

Maybe they can actually turn a profit this gen with those price points, but they will more than likely get into a price war again in the next quarter.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

:thumbsup:. ATI did bring a decent amount of new features (Eyefinity is the only one that really interests me as I play race sims) along with great performance. I expected it to be faster but looking at the specs it was most likely going to be as fast as a 4870x2 without any scaling issues so I think they did a decent job.

People with a GTX295 or 4870x2 or any other high end SLI/XFire setup obviously don't have much reason to upgrade (barring problems with scaling/power/heat) UNLESS you have use for those new features.

 

[Spike]

I don't know alot about architectures and such but aren't the GTX280 and 9800GX2 similar in their cores? If thats the case then drivers can and may make a huge difference in the ATI case as well. To my understanding the GTX280 was slower than the 9800GX2 when it launched but fairly quickly became much faster due to drivers. In this case you have the 5870 being around the same speed as the 4870X2 initially but this could change dramatically, even though the chips are not that different.

Of course I could be way off there, I'm just speculating. Either way I see this card as a solid upgrade to the current gen and unless nVidia has something earth shattering in the wings I sorta expect a return to the situation we have now. If you want the fastest, buy nVidia, if you want the best price/performance then it becomes a toss up with a slight favor to ATI. I guess we will know whenever G300 launches.

 

[AzN]

I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: ronnn
Very nice spot for ati. They have a dx11 card out for sale with a voucher for dirt 2. Nvidia has their usual viral pr staff saying don't buy with added free mod type advice.

Looks like nice profit for ati at best and no profit for anyone at best for nvidia. Should be interesting.

Maybe they can actually turn a profit this gen with those price points, but they will more than likely get into a price war again in the next quarter.

Yes whenever nvida actually releases something, prices will get better. By than there should be dx11 games and we can get meaningful benches. Right now all nvidia has to compete is fud, which as said won't help their bottom line.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Spike
I don't know alot about architectures and such but aren't the GTX280 and 9800GX2 similar in their cores? If thats the case then drivers can and may make a huge difference in the ATI case as well. To my understanding the GTX280 was slower than the 9800GX2 when it launched but fairly quickly became much faster due to drivers. In this case you have the 5870 being around the same speed as the 4870X2 initially but this could change dramatically, even though the chips are not that different.

Of course I could be way off there, I'm just speculating. Either way I see this card as a solid upgrade to the current gen and unless nVidia has something earth shattering in the wings I sorta expect a return to the situation we have now. If you want the fastest, buy nVidia, if you want the best price/performance then it becomes a toss up with a slight favor to ATI. I guess we will know whenever G300 launches.

Actually Gx2 is still faster. It's just vram limited that made the GX2 card suckage.

 

[bamacre]

Forgive me if this was mentioned earlier, but am I correct that the HD5850 needs one 6pin power connector and the HD5870 needs two 6pin power connectors?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's sad to see the Nvidia fanboys in full force here. Unfortunately it seems that even the moderators cannot be free from their own inherent bias.

From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

ATI has a real winner on their hands and the only ones who can't see it are the idiots who are still trying to argue about trivial things like stupid rumors that flew by weeks and months before this product's release.

There are fanboys for both camps, and from what I've seen so far in this thread, there really isn't and terrible fanboy'ing going on. I think the few real trouble makers are banend or choose not to post anymore.

The leaked benches showed the 5870 clearly ahead of the GTX295, I'm guessing those are faked numbers as we can all see the 5870 does compete with the GTX295, but it's not the clearly faster card by an means. But I do completely agree with what you said about the new features and other things AMD got right. If you look beyond just the performance the features and extras are what really make this card a success in my opinion. I guess I don't see what there isn't to like, a card that can play pretty much anything with incredible features for less money then last gen hig end dual GPU cards.

Now we just wait for Nvidia's answer. If they take too long, AMD could have a dual GPU card out in time for the GT300. History repeats...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
I think he meant performance per dollar guys. The 5870, as is apparent on MANY a forum after these reviews, has discredited itself by falling short of all the hype that flew around for the past months.

I dunno, it seems to perform well enough for the price to me. There are always going to be those people who expect 2x the performance for 1/2 the price. But I think most people had a bit more realistic price and performance expectations for the 5870.

It certainly does. It performs very well. Don't know why you interpret my posts in such ways.
I think you're waaaaaay wrong though about most people being realistic in it's performance for price though. Price/performance is like having a cake with no sugar in it. You still get your cake, but it's not sweet. I'm talking of course about those who wanted to ATI to be rid of the price/performance title and just have the all out performance title. Either way, ATI has the single core card crown for a bit. That will have to do.
People wanted this card to DOMINATE last gens single core champ. But it's at ~30% performance lead over a GTX285. "I" even expected more from the 5870. So I was let down to.
You're right though, the card performs well enough for the price, but two 4890's in CF would best it for less if you already have a CF mobo and a PSU that can handle it.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

:thumbsup:. ATI did bring a decent amount of new features (Eyefinity is the only one that really interests me as I play race sims) along with great performance. I expected it to be faster but looking at the specs it was most likely going to be as fast as a 4870x2 without any scaling issues so I think they did a decent job.

People with a GTX295 or 4870x2 or any other high end SLI/XFire setup obviously don't have much reason to upgrade (barring problems with scaling/power/heat) UNLESS you have use for those new features.

Anyone with a 4870x2 can sell their cards and save hundreds on electricity though. Not to mention dx11, eyefinity is it?, SSAA, much better aniso, etc..

 

[BenSkywalker]

How on earth did you come up with that conclusion?

Because I can add. If you master this skill, you will also be able to figure these things out.

Dear God you are a moron

That is a direct violation of AT forum guidelines.

The 5870 gives you roughly the same performance WITHOUT the troubles of SLI or Crossfire for the same price.

$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

At this point if you want high performance it's simply a no-brainer to go with the 5870 over anything else.

Depends on what you consider high performance. If by high performance you mean slower then a lot of other options and more expensive for a lot of people then yes, you wold be correct.

I can hardly see going that route unless absolutely necessary or you have a great deal fall into your lap on a 2nd card after already owning the first.

You can pay $200 or $380. The $200 option is going to have occasional issues, but it will be faster. What do you pick? This isn't like we are talking about a fringe group here, a whole lot of these people are running single 4890/275 level cards or comparable, it is the real choice that people are going to be making when looking at this part. People running 9400GTs aren't going to be the ones stepping up to it. For new builds the situation changes(as I mentioned), but it still is more expensive and slower then a 4890CF setup even from scratch.

the AF is, according to anand, technically perfect. It's not giving anybody a "run for their money", it's better than nvidia's. Good luck telling it apart from a gt200 in a game, however.

It is better then nV's current parts on one test- there is a reason a explicitly stated nV2x, they are the last parts to ever do full proper AF. As far as telling them apart in game, it may be hard compared to nV, it is a 2x4 between the eyes obvious between current nV parts and the 48xx parts. I also am not convinced that any person with reasonable sight won't be able to tell the difference- AT has a well earned reputation for having legally blind people comment on IQ, they rated bilinear AF hacks as superior to full proper AF back in the day, they are shockingly inept at IQ analysis. Hopefully BFG gets his hands on one so we can see some real IQ analysis

Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

In terms of performance per dollar it is worse then ATi's own current offerings- that is the problem most people see with the card and it is very clearly an accurate issue.

Even if you go full out hardcore ATi for life mindset, the 5870 has a hard time looking like a good value. 4870x2, 4890CF, 4870CF all seem to offer a better price/performance point then the 5870 does. Given that the ATi leaners have been screaming that that is the only thing that matters for years now, it is well within most reasonable people's minds to point out the fact that the 5870 loses that battle to ATi's own parts. The added features of the 5870 will be nice for those that are going to use them, but most people won't for some time(speaking for myself I would pay a reasonable price premium for quality AF in an instant, but the ATi loyalists have been very vocal about how that is an utterly worthless feature for years now ).

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's sad to see the Nvidia fanboys in full force here. Unfortunately it seems that even the moderators cannot be free from their own inherent bias.

From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

ATI has a real winner on their hands and the only ones who can't see it are the idiots who are still trying to argue about trivial things like stupid rumors that flew by weeks and months before this product's release.

Give me a break dude. Nobody is moderating here at the moment. I pointed you to the threads sticky to remind you of the rules everyone needs to follow in here. You calling BenSkywalker a Moron (which is pretty funny in it's own right), is against the rules. You needed a reminder, and any member, including myself, can point you to that reminder.
Be civil, or don't, be.

 

[SRoode]

Originally posted by: mb
If I was still on a 8800GT I would jump on this card right away, but I think I'll hold out for a 5890.

I have an 8800GT which has served me very well for 2 years now. I still don't play games that really push it that hard, but if I needed more power, wouldn't it make sense for me to spend about $30-$40 to buy another one off of E-Bay and SLI what I have to get about 50% of the performance of the 5870 that costs 9x-12x that?

I am not a fanboy at all, but this card is in a strange price/performance ratio. People are comparing it against LAST year's models (albeit some x2 models) and saying it beats them. It should. It's THIS years model, 40 nm fab, single die. Yet, it doesn't beat them consistently. And, to put it bluntly, almost $400 is still not "cheap". It's a ton of cash for just a video card. You can buy a PS3, X-Box 360 Elite, Wii (entire systems) for much less, and probably have more fun.

Please believe me that I would love to see AMD come out with a killer here, but I have the feeling that that the GT300 series will embarrass this card.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's sad to see the Nvidia fanboys in full force here. Unfortunately it seems that even the moderators cannot be free from their own inherent bias.

From a complete features perspective the 5870 is a winner all around. It has something for everybody (bitstreaming HD audio support for the HT enthusiast, Eyefinity for the guy who wants triple displays or more, perfect anisotropic filtering and improved AA for the image quality sticklers, all around kick ass performance for the hardcore gamer, a decent cooling solution that by most accounts is not too obtrusive, etc.). Rarely do you see a card get it right in so many areas.

ATI has a real winner on their hands and the only ones who can't see it are the idiots who are still trying to argue about trivial things like stupid rumors that flew by weeks and months before this product's release.

I would have to agree with you. I don't understand how anyone can think 5870 didn't deliver.

Keys get incentives so he's obviously doing his job but some of these guys who down play for releasing the fastest single GPU with more features to boot. It performs like 4870x2 and much better power numbers and yet they aren't satisfied. Giving excuses for some off site for bad speculations. Sounds retarded but who cares.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
It certainly does. It performs very well. Don't know why you interpret my posts in such ways.

Keys there are a lot of posts and threads here since I last came thru, too many to sift thru at the moment, but I wanted to ping you to see if you'd seen mention of or read this latest article by Goto-san regarding Cypress? (seems like this is the right thread to put this into anyways)

When I read it for some reason I couldn't help but to think of you:

? CPU processor dual-core approach similar to the two-fold

To achieve the performance of two times two times the size of the GPU. This time, GPU Ni?Tatte to double the size of the two, AMD is a CPU design that they take. It is a "dual core" of it. Responsible for the design of the bus said Fritz Kruger (Architect, AMD) is described as follows.

"From the perspective of system architecture, this Cypress is very similar to the RV770. The only difference is that the dual core. CPU and dual core is no longer so, How would that look somewhat similar. ( GPU internal bus) crossbar switch can not scale up much. So, CPU core has two separate two of the same reason, we divided into two cores and a single bus structure that is easily "

Cypress family of processors, the greater are actually divided into two groups. Each of two groups, such as Sureddoshikensa rasterizer and apparently has a processor control unit and perform the setup. In other words, RV770 processor group and the control part was in, each of two similar structures, such as Cypress has been contained within.

Analogy referring to the CPU, RV770 is a single core, Cypress's dual-core. Of course, CPU, dual core is completely different meaning and architecture. However, until now had control of the GPU processor all together, Cypress control of the processor in the sense that two separate groups of one degree, dual-core and close to the idea. In that sense, is Cypress's first dual-core GPU.

The advantage of this structure, GPU is one of the bottlenecks can be simpler than the one inside the bus configuration. As a result, GPU will be easier to design. Also, control processor, can be more simple.

To adopt a dual-core configuration

? SIMD two groups work seamlessly

AMD GPU, the processor is a SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) is a unit to perform the "SIMD cores (SIMD engine, also known as)" They are presented as. RV770 does this total was for 10 SIMD cores, Cypress has become pieces in 20. Cypress is a dual-core entities, RV770 equivalent to 1 as ten SIMD cores, 20 cores seems to be two things to manage the split core.

Cypress elements have shown that the structure of the dual-core, Cypress can be seen throughout the architecture. For example, Cypress offers the rasterizer to convert the polygon pixel is increased to two each. This is acceptable given per core and configuration of taking the rasterizer. In addition, the full set of threads allocated to each processor, and also to control Sureddoshikensa branching and thread switching are two pieces of the program. Cypress total of 20 SIMD cores, the 10 that are controlled Sureddoshikensa one by one. AMD officials have described as follows.

"Sureddoshikensa conducted by the branch control. RV770 in the 10's was one of SIMD. Cypress, the SIMD 10 and 20 of each group, each managed by Sureddoshikensa"

However, each was divided into two core Cypress (10 SIMD) is, CPU is much more tightly connected to the dual core.

"The software has two work seamlessly as a single core. For example, (thread) dispatch, and has been able to make load balancing across both cores. Therefore, here are the vertices of the polygon processing core, the core can dispatch and the other after processing pixel rasterization. in order to transfer data from one core from the core to the other, no need to write once memory.

The texture (data path) are (two cores) are shared. Texture is prevalent in two cores go. Texture (data path) are two core services across "(Kruger's)

In other words, the processor Sureddodisupatcha control group, seemed to be some control can be conducted across two cores. Therefore, the two can be considered to keep the load balancing operation processor cores busy.

Google Translated into English
Original in Japanese

I can't find Goto-san's source for his quote from Fritz Kruger, but at least you know you weren't entirely crazy after all. Or at least you aren't the only one who is crazy

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Even if you go full out hardcore ATi for life mindset, the 5870 has a hard time looking like a good value. 4870x2, 4890CF, 4870CF all seem to offer a better price/performance point then the 5870 does. Given that the ATi leaners have been screaming that that is the only thing that matters for years now, it is well within most reasonable people's minds to point out the fact that the 5870 loses that battle to ATi's own parts. The added features of the 5870 will be nice for those that are going to use them, but most people won't for some time(speaking for myself I would pay a reasonable price premium for quality AF in an instant, but the ATi loyalists have been very vocal about how that is an utterly worthless feature for years now ).

Quite correct, but I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate that the current price of the 5870 was decided upon because it fits pretty well in with single gpu solutions at that price point.

I do think it's completely unreasonable to assume ATI has so quickly forgotten the lessons of last gen, that is, what brought them success. Price/Performance means more than the top spot, and I believe, because ATI now understands this, that there will be swift price cuts in response the the release of the GT300 chips.

Until then, they price hits right about the right spot among the single GPU cards on the market, because ATI doesn't have to do any better than that right now.

Releasing first does have it's advantages. :beer:

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890? Of course it doesn't. But why stop there and buy a 2 4890 just to save $40 and miss all those features only to be overpay on electric bill? Not to mention you need a CF or SLI motherboard to run these dual setups.