ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

You're flat out of your mind or lying.

If you say so.

~30% is huge, it's domination from 1 gen to the next. 20% would've been fine and within the norm, completely acceptable to be the champ here. The thing not only beats the 285, it's real competition, but usually matches or beats the 295 (SLI on a stick).

30% is not huge, at all. Not when EVERYTHING has been doubled in R870. And this R870 even loses to a 4870X2 quite often (CF on a Stick).

"That will have to do." Are you serious? Have to do?

Did I stutter? Or did your ears flap?

The 5870 is beyond expectations.

Tell that to most review sites. Most say it's very good. Not "GREAT!"

The audio output, the power efficiency, the performance, dx11, triple display on the first cards with eyefinity.. this is a complete package with no real archilles heel.

Audio output is terrific. Power efficiency has VASTLY improved. DX11 means nothing right now. Eyefinity sucks until bezeless seamless displays emerge. The achillies heal....... are you ready?...... is it's performance. It's being speculated that this card is STARVED by it's 256-bit memory bus. I think it could have been much more of a beast with a 512-bit bus to go along with that fast GDDR5.

Never fear Keys Player. When your company has whatever they have ready, ATI will be waiting in the wings with tuned, high clocking (if necessary) X2 card to take your glory.

Can I quote the last two sentences in my sig? That is friggin hysterical! You sound like a Super Hero!

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

Now who's selling?

I'm just saying. :laugh: Not everyone care for 10% better performance. Features count too.

Features that are used sure.
DX11? No games...
Bitstream HD Audio? If you HTPC this card is probably too big for your case...
better AF? Can you tell the diference in motion? I can't...

Performance is what matters to many, and a lot of people base purchases on benchmarks. Generally speaking, most would not know anything about AF/AA/DX11 etc. They want to know which card runs their games faster so they check benchmarks. That's life to the non-tech site reading public,

Dirt 2 is not dx11?

You can use SSAA and angle dependent AF off the bat on majority of the games out there.

Speed only matters when you don't have enough. I already get over 60fps with 4xAA or more. I don't need a 130fps card over a card that gets 120fps with more features that can deliver better IQ. If performance matter to you so much why turn on AA or AF?

1 game? Really...like was said before, can you actually tell the difference between AA and AF modes in motion? I doubt it. Zoomed in on a screenshot sure, but that's not real world.

My point remains, AMD hyped it too much. They fell short of the hype and they are at fault for it.

When was the last time when a card came out with even a single game to use new dx path? This is how the PC gaming industry has been long as I remember.

Hyped it up too much? When wasn't a card ever not hyped up from both camps? I think I know where you stand. no need to reply to me about nvidia vs ATI.

 

[SRoode]

Originally posted by: coconutboy

Originally posted by: SRoode
My interpretation is that the 5870 doesn't really outperform (on average) their own 4870x2, which costs about 20% less... Single die doesn't really matter when you have to pay $319 for one card and $379 for another, and in the end the performance is about the same. It's not a "great" release for the price point. $299 would have been a different story.

That's silly to compare a 4870x2 vs a 5870. Go check Newegg, Mwave, and other retailers and see how many 4870x2s you can buy. Those cards will be gone soon and the people who already have them won't be upgrading this soon anyhow unless they're the fringe/niche vid card junkies that upgrade every 12 months or so. There's other considerations as well, but not being able to buy the part is reason.

You can still buy them, and even more on E-Bay or wherever. By the time they run out new, they will still be available used (and cheaper). By then however, the 5870 will be a distant memory.

They are running out of 4870x2's soon because they have been discontinued by ATI... I wonder why?

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card".

It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would.

The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

True. Even if Nvidia release GT300 next year then what? Will it be faster than 5870x2 cards? Will cmdrdredd downplay 5870x2 cards too because it's faster?

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Originally posted by: SRoode
You can still buy them, and even more on E-Bay or wherever. By the time they run out new, they will still be available used (and cheaper). By then however, the 5870 will be a distant memory.

They are running out of 4870x2's soon because they have been discontinued by ATI... I wonder why?

Buying cards used on Ebay isn't where most people buy their vid cards. And unless someone is clueless it's pretty obvious that ATI is dropping the 4870x2 so as not to compete against their own product. This is nothing new in the world of sales and marketing, be it Intel's soon to be dropped i7 920 or Nv/AMD dropping vid cards from their lineup.

I have no idea what you mean in the statement I bolded, it makes no sense.

 

[SRoode]

The statement you bolded does make sense, and it is very disconcerting when a company has to drop a prior year's product because it competes with the current years product, no? Whomever does it.

The price point is not right for this card.

 

[ronnn]

What? They drop a product that had obvious flaws, for a product that is cheaper to make, dx11 and generally considered more desirable and you complain?

 

[SRoode]

I'm not complaining at all. I said it is priced wrong. If it is cheaper to make, then sell it cheaper than last years model (which performs the same as this years model)

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: coconutboy
Ever notice that every single time we get a new generation of video cards, no matter how good it is, people complain about it either not being good enough or else the price? Even more absurd is that in every survey and poll we see that the average PC gamer upgrades their video cards every ~2 years, yet time and again there are somehow people think that a new video card generation was somehow going to invalidate their 1 year old part and necessitate an upgrade. There's just no help for these people.

To top it all off, there's people who spend a ton of cash for either a high-end part from the previous generation or else a dual-card config and then those guys actually think that 6-12 months later some new part for the same price is somehow going to give them a doubling in fps. If it happens great, but that's usually only because they bought a pair of low end cards and something better trickled down to budget territory.

Welcome to the forums coconutboy.
I have a slightly different view regarding launch expectations and upgrades.

If the execution is good usually the performance per price range in the Enthusiast or performance category for example, is doubling per 1,5 year. (comparing launches)

Q2 2005 7800GTX DX9.1 $599 vs Q4 2006 8800GTX DX10 $599 (same price, much higher than 2X perf)
or
Q3 2006 X1950XTX DX9.1 $399 vs Q2 2008 HD4870 DX10 $299
(-100$, higher than 2X perf)

Now we have:

Q2 2008 HD4870 DX10 299$ vs Q4 2009 HD5870 DX11 $379 (+80$, lower than 2X perf.)

Is the price competitive with NV offerings?
Of cource. (especially the 5850 at $259 is sweet (without even DX11 NV competition)

Is the 5870 price good based on what someone would expect if he had in mind the above transitions?(7800-8800 & 1950-4870)
No.

Is it logical to demand lower price based on the current market situation?
No

Is it logical to like better the price/performance levels in the past transitions (like in the example i gave)
Yes.

Of cource ATI wanted in the 4800 transition to regain market share, so it was an experiment in that direction (that's why -100$ and higher than 2X perf), but there are many transitions that the performance improvement is 2X in the same price level.
This one isn't.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Well, we know you now. And I believe you did speak to me without me speaking to you first. I think cmdrdredd reserves that same right.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card" It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would..

You do know about the single PCB GTX295's? First review was June12th. Read on up Sparky
In fact, every single model GTX295 on newegg right now, is single PCB.

Originally posted by: Obsoleet
The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

The 5870 often loses to it's brethren 4870x2. How is that matching or beating a GTX295? Haven't you read the reviews?

Originally posted by: Azn[/
True. Even if Nvidia release GT300 next year then what? Will it be faster than 5870x2 cards? Will cmdrdredd downplay 5870x2 cards too because it's faster?

It either will or it wont. And cmdrdredd isn't downplaying anything. What's happening here is that you are "up-playing" it to the max. And if and when a 5870x2 beats whatever Nvidia's best offering is at that time, I have a feeling he will buy whichever he wants. It looks like he would go for the faster performer. But he uses PhysX. So depending on what OpenCL and Windows 7 brings.... I dunno.

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Originally posted by: MODEL3
Welcome to the forums coconutboy.

Thanks! I've been readin' Atech since about '98 though and the forums since about 2001 or so. Usually just a lurker but for some reason I can't access my old username (FlyingRedPanda IIRC). I didn't post much but maybe one of the forum upgrades that happened killed my nick? Last time I can remember posting for sure was when the Intel 865 chipset was just released, May of 2003 or '04 I think it was.

 

[Tempered81]

If they priced it at $299 they couldn't produce enough to meet the demand. It would stay constantly sold out. If it cost $499, it would still sell, but not at the volume levels they want. AMD has it at $379, and are selling every last one that rolls off the assembly line at the rate which they desire. I do recall the same thing cannot be said for the GTX280 sales volumes and launch pricing.

$379 is the price point that suits their situation. 40nm production levels meet demand, price set. Its going to go $379 --> $359 --> $329, and we might see it at $299 around Jan 2010 depending on when 40nm NV is released, and its performance level compared to the 5870.

The thing that pisses me off is they're holding the 5870x2 as the ace in the hole to combat the gtx380. They could just release the damn thing now - I'm sure plenty of people are waiting to buy it. Never understood that strategy.... Gosh.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't understand how anyone can believe some off site with bad speculations and then feel like ATI didn't deliver. That's quite hilarious. ATI delivered and then some with their 5870. While Nvidia is scratching their heads like WTF!#(*

With 1600SP, 80TMU, 32ROP and 100mhz faster core clock with much lower bandwidth is not going to deliver GTX295 performance. Anyone who's got a head on their shoulders who's been following the GPU scene will tell you it won't.

the only thing nvidia is asking WTF about probably goes something like this:

Huang: WTF??? When is gt300 going to be ready? We have a great opportunity here to really punish ATI!!
TSMC representative: erm, er, well, uh, yeah... we'll get back to you in january...


seriously, the 5870 is probably in line with most industry insiders' expectations. Those same industry insiders probably expect gtx 380 to be faster than 5870. If gtx 380 is 10-20% faster and it releases in time for xmas, nvidia will be fine. If gtx 380 is 10-20% faster and it releases feb 10, 2010, then nvidia will have screwed the pooch and missed out on the huge win 7 surge PLUS the post-recession rebound xmas sales. The later it releases, the more pressure on gt300 to produce BIG results. Remember the r600 hype? It kept dragging out longer and longer, and lots of zoners kept expecting it to just kick the shit out of 8800gtx. This release puts serious pressure on nvidia, it will be interesting to see how they react.

 

[AmberClad]

Guys, comments like this are not permitted in the Video forum:

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
It's sad to see the Nvidia fanboys in full force here. Unfortunately it seems that even the moderators cannot be free from their own inherent bias.

If you're coming in here for the 5 series launch as a regular of the social forums or are new to AnandTech, please be aware that personal attacks and call outs are not allowed in the technical forums -- see the stickied Moderator message at the top of this forum. If you're a Video regular, you shouldn't need to be reminded of these guidelines .

AmberClad
Video Moderator

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: SRoode
The statement you bolded does make sense, and it is very disconcerting when a company has to drop a prior year's product because it competes with the current years product, no? Whomever does it.

The price point is not right for this card.

I bet they are doing it because the 5870 is a lot cheaper for them than the 4870x2.

Sure they charging extra for the "shinies", but those "shinies" while a bit slower on average have some advantages, some useful from the start like power consumption, some not as useful like eyefinty, some not being used yet like DX11.

So, yes, the 4870x2 is atm faster than the 5870. But in 6 months - 1 year, who is going to be in a better position? The 4870x2 or the 5870?

DX11 isn't something like physX (not saying physX hasn't is value, but physX is nV not MS). MS has all the interest to have game using it and these days they have even more of a leverage with their xboxs.

So atm it seems:

- GTX 295 a slightly faster than the 4870x2, but also quite more expensive;
- 5870 on average slower than the 295 and the 4870x2, but in some cases faster than the 295 and 4870x2, less expensive than the 295 but more expensive than the 4870x2 (and btw it is selling at $379 not $400);
- 5850 faster than the GTX285 by ~15% and cheaper (when it actually gets out and if nV doesn't drop the 285 price);
- 4890 being quite close to the GTX 285 and on par with the GTX 275 but cheaper than both;
- 4870 1GB on par with the GTX 260-216 and cheaper;
- GTS 250 between the 4850 and the 4870 512MB, but being more expensive than the first and slower than the latter.

We also have the 4850x2 which is around the GTX285 performance but a lot cheaper and the 4670 which is quite cheap fighting the 9600GT that isn't that far of the 4830 and 4850 price.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
You do know about the single PCB GTX295's? First review was June12th. Read on up Sparky
In fact, every single model GTX295 on newegg right now, is single PCB.

It's still SLI on a stick keys...you picked out one sentence (the one that mattered the least) from that paragraph you quoted and refuted that....so what if it's single-PCB?? Still has the same issues that SLI/XFire has (and I think even you've found some issues in your own testing).

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
$170 for a 4890. 2 of those would be $40 less then a 5870 and faster. If you already own a 4890, the price gap grows considerably, although it being faster doesn't change. On the nV side you end up paying a bit more if you don't already have a 275, but again, it is a faster solution. Yes, dealing with the issues of SLI/CF have an impact, for those that already have a single board getting superior performance for half the money or less may make them tollerate a few hiccups.

How about in a year down the road when you just paid $200 more on electric bill for owning 2 4890 over 5870.

Do you get dx11, eyefinity, angle dependent aniso, SSAA, better overcurrent protection, HD bitstreaming with that 4890?

No good games for DX11 yet,
not everyone uses more than 1 monitor,
I can't even tell the difference between af modes,
SSAA is marginally better then normal AA at more performance costs,
don't run furmark or occt,
no HTPC,
since when do overclocking gamers care about electricity?


It does not make sense to buy a 5870 now. After GT300 comes out? Sure as hell you'll see price cuts, then, it will be time to pounce.

Also, not dealing with CF issues is a very valid reason for not going with 2 HD4890s now, but thats a personal tradeoff. Another reason might be future ability to upgrade to a 5870 CF setup, or , excuse my ignorance on the subject but, running on a P55 motherboard may cut performance with the 4890s, having only 2 8x lanes for CF mode. (correct me if I'm wrong, does 8x vs. 16x matter yet?

last time I saw a review, 8x 8x vs 16x 16x was about a 10% performance penalty. Don't remember if that was pci-e 2.0, however. Can anybody verify?

 

[thilanliyan]

Here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...70_PCI-Express_Scaling

It isn't XFire though.

 

[ugaboga232]

First Post but I just wanted to point out some deductions I made. So as far as we know, GT300 is going to be 512 shaders at about the same speed as the old ones give or take 10%. The 295 is 480 Shaders so realistically the GT300 should only be 20% better max than the 295. The 5870, which per ATI's strategy is supposed to compete with the 360 GTX and not the 380. But even competing with the 380, it would be about 30% faster. Now the new Asus volt cards can oc past 1000 on core and 1300 for memory (Both 5870 and 5850, the 5850 seems like a steal with this Asus Voltage Regulator). This closes the gap a bit hopefully pushing it past the 295. Basically, I am saying the GT300, unless its MIMD architecture is true and has big overhauls compared to the GT200, will not be that much faster than the 5870. In the end, I think this gen will mirror last times when Nvidia gets its product out.

To be honest, I was rooting for the 5870 but when it was priced at 379 and didn't beat the 295 or 4870x2, I was a little disappointed. But because of possible memory bandwidth shortage, lack of Nvidia competitor at price now, and the fact AMD wants to make money have priced it at its current price. At 299 it would be a worthy successor to the 4870 but time will tell if it reaches that price.

Now I think AMD should have maybe toned the 5870 and 5850 down a lil but where the 5870 right now is, put a 5850x2. I think that going 5850, 5870, 5850x2, 5870x2 should be the hierarchy of the cards
make a 75$ and 30% difference between them and thats a good line up(like 200 for the 50, 275 for 70, 350 for 5850, and 425 for 5870).

Still I wanted to share my opinion of the way this new generation is turning out.




Edit: Also wanted to say that ATI and Nvidia have dug themselves into a whole by the pricewar. You can get 2 4890's or 275's for about 400 dollars probably less by now. These will match the 5870 and probably stay competitive with the 380 which diminishes the value of the new cards. If this generation came after say the previous one, where the prices were not driven down, I think more people would think higher of these new cards.

 

[SRoode]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: SRoode
The statement you bolded does make sense, and it is very disconcerting when a company has to drop a prior year's product because it competes with the current years product, no? Whomever does it.

The price point is not right for this card.

I bet they are doing it because the 5870 is a lot cheaper for them than the 4870x2.

Sure they charging extra for the "shinies", but those "shinies" while a bit slower on average have some advantages, some useful from the start like power consumption, some not as useful like eyefinty, some not being used yet like DX11.

So, yes, the 4870x2 is atm faster than the 5870. But in 6 months - 1 year, who is going to be in a better position? The 4870x2 or the 5870?

DX11 isn't something like physX (not saying physX hasn't is value, but physX is nV not MS). MS has all the interest to have game using it and these days they have even more of a leverage with their xboxs.

So atm it seems:

- GTX 295 a slightly faster than the 4870x2, but also quite more expensive;
- 5870 on average slower than the 295 and the 4870x2, but in some cases faster than the 295 and 4870x2, less expensive than the 295 but more expensive than the 4870x2 (and btw it is selling at $379 not $400);
- 5850 faster than the GTX285 by ~15% and cheaper (when it actually gets out and if nV doesn't drop the 285 price);
- 4890 being quite close to the GTX 285 and on par with the GTX 275 but cheaper than both;
- 4870 1GB on par with the GTX 260-216 and cheaper;
- GTS 250 between the 4850 and the 4870 512MB, but being more expensive than the first and slower than the latter.

We also have the 4850x2 which is around the GTX285 performance but a lot cheaper and the 4670 which is quite cheap fighting the 9600GT that isn't that far of the 4830 and 4850 price.

I agree with most of what you say. Of course I have a strong feeling why they "really" discontinued the 4870x2, but I always hate to see this kind of thing happen to push a new product for better profit margin when in the end, the consumer is not getting that much more for the money. Even with an 8800GT, I will wait probably at least another 6 months before I even consider an upgrade. I was really hoping this card would be the breakout card that I could justify an upgrade for. It just isn't.

Oh, and I know the 5870 is $379, but if you have to pay tax and/or shipping, then I rounded it to about $400, which is what your out of pocket would be.

 

[imported_coconutboy]

MODEL3- I understand where you're coming from with your explanation of the performance in your examples, but those examples also show two highly successful product launches that are as good as it gets in this business. It also doesn't take into account that ATI hasn't just gone for the pure framerates, but they also nailed so many other things and excelled at them. The power requirements, Eyefinity, ability to run 4/8x AA well with little performance hit. The 5870, and especially the 5850 are excellent at their price points for what they do. I can't recall if it was the jump from the Geforce 1 to 2, or if it was from Geforce 2 to 3, but we had a very similar situation where many people thought the card was overpriced for it's performance boost at the time, but as Direct X 8 (IIRC) games became more prevalent, the newer part showed it's value by not falling apart like the older cards. I'd wager on 5800 parts doing the same.

Sure a 4870x2 can be had for less than a 5850, but does it do all the other things and support DX 11? If you already own 4870x2 or, say, a pair of GTX 260s in SLI, well an upgrade is silly unless you're a one of the extremists. For how much they cost, these cards are great IMO, but I still won't buy one. This stuff devalues so fast and the power is wasted on any games I'll be playing before next year and G300s launch.

Originally posted by: Tempered81
If they priced it at $299 they couldn't produce enough to meet the demand. It would stay constantly sold out. If it cost $499, it would still sell, but not at the volume levels they want. AMD has it at $379, and are selling every last one that rolls off the assembly line at the rate which they desire. I do recall the same thing cannot be said for the GTX280 sales volumes and launch pricing.

$379 is the price point that suits their situation. 40nm production levels meet demand, price set. Its going to go $379 --> $359 --> $329, and we might see it at $299 around Jan 2010 depending on when 40nm NV is released, and its performance level compared to the 5870.

Well put and I agree with one caveat. I have doubts we'll see price cuts from ATI below current MSRP before G300 launches unless Nvidia drops cost on some of their parts which is already tough for them to do as is.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: SRoode
I'm not complaining at all. I said it is priced wrong. If it is cheaper to make, then sell it cheaper than last years model (which performs the same as this years model)

Oh well as ocguy said, prices will come down when nvidia finally releases something that can compete.

 

[happy medium]

Have we not seen this situation before?
This is how it's going to work out by the holidays.

Nvidia will launch the gtx380 around the launch of windows 7.
The gtx380 will be 20/40% faster then the 5870.
Around the same time the gtx 360 will launch being the main compeditor to the 5870.

Amd will launch there hd5770 (about as fast as a 4870/gtx260). Nvidia will counter with the gts 350.

Suddenly the 5870x2 will launch and be the king for a whole 10 seconds until the gtx 395 woops it.

The only real mystery is how are the prices gonna be for the gtx series and how will Amd respond?

Wanna bet....Pay pal only...

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
last time I saw a review, 8x 8x vs 16x 16x was about a 10% performance penalty. Don't remember if that was pci-e 2.0, however. Can anybody verify?

There is a nice article about PCI-express scaling in techreport:

http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...xpress_Scaling/26.html

PCI-Express 2.0 x8 performance, which is perhaps the most crucial set of figures in this review, holds relevance to most people looking to pair two of these cards on mid-range motherboards or one of these cards on an x16 1.x motherboard. It holds even more relevance to users and potential-users of most socket LGA-1156 motherboards, as this is where 16 lanes from the processor's on-die PCI-E switch are split into two 8 lane links. Surprising as it seems, the Radeon HD 5870 is comfortable, with a mere 2% performance drop overall.
PCI-Express 2.0 x4 is where the Radeon HD 5870's discomfort is slightly notable, with a 5% drop

Of cource the mem is 1GB, if you had 512MB the results would be a little bit different (you can check 3850 256MB results for Q4 2007 games, but again the difference was acceptable, if i remember correctly)

Edit*
Sorry thilan29, i just saw your link.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Azn[/
True. Even if Nvidia release GT300 next year then what? Will it be faster than 5870x2 cards? Will cmdrdredd downplay 5870x2 cards too because it's faster?

It either will or it wont. And cmdrdredd isn't downplaying anything. What's happening here is that you are "up-playing" it to the max. And if and when a 5870x2 beats whatever Nvidia's best offering is at that time, I have a feeling he will buy whichever he wants. It looks like he would go for the faster performer. But he uses PhysX. So depending on what OpenCL and Windows 7 brings.... I dunno.

He's been talking about how his GTX295 is the fastest card on the market then replied to my post about ATI having the fastest single card on the market and says Nvidia has the fastest video card on the market. The stuff he says sound ludicrous how ATI hyped it up so much now it sucks because it doesn't quite beat a GTX295. Was ATI hyping it up or some 3rd party fan hyping it up and said that it beat a GTX295?

I'm praising because the card is 2x as fast as ATI's last generation that eats about same wattage as their last generation at load and even better at idle. That in itself is an accomplishment that's never been done before within 1 generation. At least I don't know any other card that did this.

Not to mention the first dx11 with all those features at a price point Nvidia wouldn't touch with a 10' pole for their launched price. Was I praising when rv770 was released? NO! At best I was criticizing it.

It's not looking pretty for Nvidia. Only way Nvidia can get their act together is if GT300 is 2x fast as 5870 or at least 1.5x as fast and release it quickly as they won't have a gx2 part I'm sure.

I'm not getting this 5870 as I'm happy with my setup and still waiting for games that would tax these new GPU's but from my perspective this card delivered and then some for people who need/want a card now.