ATi 5850/5870 review thread

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: OCguy
That 10K estimate of initial cards available through channels other than Dell is looking more and more accurate. I just checked the only "available" card at ZZF, and it is a pre-order for October.

Dave Bauman over at B3D actually confirmed that the 10% ratio was a joke. He said that a portion went to Dell but it was no where near the 90% that was bandied about by some source.

Well then where are the cards? Why no 5850s?

The small volume of 5870s so far does not constitute a hard launch to me.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: OCguy
That 10K estimate of initial cards available through channels other than Dell is looking more and more accurate. I just checked the only "available" card at ZZF, and it is a pre-order for October.

Dave Bauman over at B3D actually confirmed that the 10% ratio was a joke. He said that a portion went to Dell but it was no where near the 90% that was bandied about by some source.

Well then where are the cards? Why no 5850s?

The small volume of 5870s so far does not constitute a hard launch to me.

agreed. I'm telling you, dell/paper ftw!!!

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: OCguy
That 10K estimate of initial cards available through channels other than Dell is looking more and more accurate. I just checked the only "available" card at ZZF, and it is a pre-order for October.

Dave Bauman over at B3D actually confirmed that the 10% ratio was a joke. He said that a portion went to Dell but it was no where near the 90% that was bandied about by some source.

Well then where are the cards? Why no 5850s?

The small volume of 5870s so far does not constitute a hard launch to me.

agreed. I'm telling you, dell/paper ftw!!!

Just to get this straight, when a tech site posts something like 'the GTX295 is losing money on each part sold' we don't believe it if we don't see the actual numbers because that is anti-Nvidia. But, when a site posts that Dell has 90% of the launch parts, we'll run with it since it's not anti-Nvidia, right? Even though AMD says that is not the case.

We do not know how many parts are available, how many sold, how many Dell has. Could it be the case that Dell has most, even up to 90% of the parts? Certainly, that could be fact. But we just don't know the numbers. We don't know if there were 1000 cards or 50000 cards available yesterday.

Everything I read said that the late Sept. date would be limitied availability followed by lots of availability in October. http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15673/1/

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: OCguy
That 10K estimate of initial cards available through channels other than Dell is looking more and more accurate. I just checked the only "available" card at ZZF, and it is a pre-order for October.

Dave Bauman over at B3D actually confirmed that the 10% ratio was a joke. He said that a portion went to Dell but it was no where near the 90% that was bandied about by some source.

Well then where are the cards? Why no 5850s?

The small volume of 5870s so far does not constitute a hard launch to me.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10011258

You were saying...

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Azn

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10011258

You were saying...

"Non-refundable. Exchange for defective unit(s) only. Pre-ordering available & Estimate Delivery Time: beginning of October."

Do you see now?



For all we know, there could be a huge shipment tomorrow and all is good. I am just saying it seems like that report could be right.

 

[nyker96]

it's funny that ATI makes a great gcard while amd makes lousy cpus. now the best computer is made up of an i7//hd58xx. maybe amd should put more engineers into cpu department to get a hit product out, about time.

 

[AzN]

AMD doesn't make lousy CPU's it's just that Intel is just that much better at making CPU and chipset.

ATI has always done well except for few bad calls like 2900xt followed by 3870 which couldn't be changed because it was just a refresh of the same.

 

[bryanW1995]

yeah, nvidia is very competitive but they killed off so many others in large part due to great marketing. Intel really IS that good, they can afford to hire the absolute best and leave the rest to amd/via/everyone else.

 

[BenSkywalker]

BenSkywalker's claim is an utter BS

Did you read the links you provided? Seriously, I would think anyone capable of posting a link on these forums would be capable of checking out the data they include-

But as prices settled out and AMD got its RV770 GPU (and subsequent derivatives RV730, RV790, RV740) in place across the Radeon line-up, the company finally saw a meaningful uptick in market position, JPR said. JPR's figures showed AMD's unit share rose from 31% in the first quarter of 2009, to 35% in the second, with Nvidia declining 4pp to 64%.

From a link YOU provided. ATi got crushed in the marketplace with the 4xxx parts, this isn't anyone's perspective, it is the cold hard reality of the sales data. The prediction links you provided are comical by comparison-

With AMD officially announcing its ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 GPU, the company has noted that its ATI Radeon HD 4800-series has boosted the company's discrete graphics card market share from 30% to 40%, and it expects to achieve a 50% market share by the end of 2008, and will surpass Nvidia in 2009.

By the end of 2008 nV was utterly crushing ATi in marketshare. Link. If you want to talk about deam land then I can't honestly talk about sales, which it seems you are very interested in. In this reality, my statement is entirely accurate and your links back me up on that.

Quite the contrary it has proved that ATI HAS GRABBED overall market share form NV throughout 2008.

Not quite.

Among vendors, Nvidia and AMD neither gained nor lost position in the market, maintaining the previous quarter?s 65% and 35% shares, respectively.

Q1 08 ATi/nv were at 35/65 respectively, Q1 09 was 31/68 for ATi/nV respectively. nVidia gained marketshare throughout 2008(very little- normal deviation for a quarter in a realistic sense, but a gain none the less).

The only reason the 4800 cards didn't have like a 10:1 ratio of people buying them over the GT200 series is exclusively because of a lack of awareness.

Debunking that myth. ATi had a very clear lead over nVidia not all that long ago. This is nothing at all like the situation with the Athlon where AMD has never been close to being ahead of Intel.

Oh yeah, I'm sure DB always say the real truth

If Dave can't say, he won't say- he isn't going to flat out lie. I've been conversing with Dave for years, long before he went to work at ATi. I rarely agree with him, but he is not a liar by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Actually their high-end share went up but overall their discrete share was stagnant

The numbers I quoted were for AIB, discrete was not included.

Aren't AIB and discrete the same thing? I unfortunately can't find the link but there was a break down of the high/mid/lowend IIRC and not this quarter but possibly last quarter showed ATI gained on the high end but lost marketshare overall due to nV's sales of the lower end cards.

I quoted that report in my last post

Yeah sorry I quoted the wrong link.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Actually their high-end share went up but overall their discrete share was stagnant

The numbers I quoted were for AIB, discrete was not included.

Here's some recent number:

I quoted that report in my last post

 

[kerr]

I can't believe that all the WOW players have not mentioned the World of Warcrat benchmark? SLI scaling well?

 

[imported_coconutboy]

Probably because WoW players can run max settings just fine with cards from 2005-06 so many of them are too busy staring at the fugly (ya know it's true, only Blizz's fantastic art dept keeps that game even decently pretty).

 

[BenSkywalker]

Aren't AIB and discrete the same thing?

Doh Yes, you are absolutely correct. Half with it and was thinking integrated

 

[Zstream]

Why are people arguing with Ben regarding Nvidia and AMD? He was part of the viral marketing crew back in the day... This thread is about AMD 5xxx reviews, quit making it into a stupid two person debate.

 

[lopri]

Well, with respect - Can we discuss things without resorting to personal attacks? Implied or otherwise. First of all, it is against the ToS of AnandTech Forums. Second of all, Ben, Keys, or anyone/everyone for that matter is entitled to their opinions. In the case of Keys, I'm getting irritated by the ad hominem attacks repeatedly thrown at him by fellow AT'ers. Never mind that I have never seen him mixing his duty as a moderator with his privilege as NV Focus Group member.

I say this as a member of this forum, not as a Motherboard Forum moderator.

/end off-topic

 

[Tempered81]

5870x2 is long!

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j1pibq.jpg

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: lopri
Well, with respect - Can we discuss things without resorting to personal attacks? Implied or otherwise. First of all, it is against the ToS of AnandTech Forums. Second of all, Ben, Keys, or anyone/everyone for that matter is entitled to their opinions. In the case of Keys, I'm getting irritated by the ad hominem attacks repeatedly thrown at him by fellow AT'ers. Never mind that I have never seen him mixing his duty as a moderator with his privilege as NV Focus Group member.

I say this as a member of this forum, not as a Motherboard Forum moderator.

/end off-topic

Well anandtech has allowed major violations in ToS by both focus group members and ati types. So why just pick on us?

 

[Creig]

Come on, guys. Let's focus on the hardware.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Tempered81
5870x2 is long!

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j1pibq.jpg

Damn that does look very long...I don't like the new direction ATI has gone in making all of their cards longer than their previous gen. This 4870 1GB I have is only 9.5" and it just barely fits in my case...thankfully I have another case on the way as it looks like my next card (whatever it is) is going to need more space.

 

[kreacher]

The 5870 is definitely a good card and a big performance / feature jump over the previous generation single GPU cards. I'm a bit disappointed at the fact that this generation of cards still can't run Crysis / Warhead smoothly at 1920x with 4xAA/16xAF with all the eye candy turned on. IMHO even a 5890 won't be able to pull that off.

 

[AzN]

http://firingsquad.com/hardwar...nce_preview/page11.asp

You can definitely play Crysis @ very high. Not the magical 60fps but considering the nature of Crysis engine you can definitely play with 30fps.

 

[imported_Shaq]

They should run it in DX9 with the very high config hack. Then it should run over 60fps with 2 5870's. $800 is more than I want to spend as Crysis is the only game that needs two 5870's.

 

[Obsoleet]

Originally posted by: akugami

Originally posted by: Obsoleet

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You're lucky we have forum rules...

Don't go calling ppl fanboys because Mr pot...meet the kettle

You don't know me. And you weren't being spoken to.

Though since you chimed in for Mr. Player, you should know that the 295, which does in cases get beaten by a mere single 5870.. is not a "single video card".

It's a dual PCB solution. SLI on a stick. It acts as SLI does.
The 5870 is a single PCB. It acts as any non-SLI/Crossfire card would.

The fact the 5870 is matching or beating the 295 is sadness for Nvidia at this point. That means without the G300, they have nothing.

It may not be a single GPU video card but it is a single video card. That's almost like claiming a dual or quad core CPU is not a single CPU.

The fact that a previous generation video card solution from nVidia matches up well (loses some, wins some) against the current top video card from ATI bodes well for nVidia. Remember that nVidia has not released their GT300's yet. Granted ATI still has the inevitable 5870x2 coming out and maybe a 5890 as well. Given performance between the GTX 295 and 5870 are in the same rough range, they'll have to compete on price and that's where I think the 5870 has the real advantage as it's almost impossible not to have a price advantage when making a single GPU card due to only needing one GPU and presumably a simpler PCB with less layers.

With all this competition, if anyone is a winner, it's consumers.

It is a single video card. But the 295 is a MultiGPU solution, which means it has all the pitfalls of a multiGPU solution. That being the case, if we do a comparison of single GPU solutions vs single GPU solutions, and multiGPU solutions vs multiGPU solutions.. we have this

Geforce 285 < Radeon 5870
Geforce 295 < Crossfire Radeon 5870s

The aim of the diehard Nvidia people in attempt to paint the 295 as competition to the single 5870 is absolutely insane.

It's downright dishonest, and anyone making the claim is either a shill for Nvidia's marketing or very confused by Nvidia's marketing.

No one will admit it now, besides those of us with no connections to either company, but this another 9700 Pro. Once Nvidia is back on top someday, Nvidia's focus team will admit it. But today, that means sacrificing many sales to admit such a thing.

I'm shocked people are not saying "well the 295 has more marketshare, so it's clearly the better product" That's almost the degree of lunacy going on here.

 

[imported_Shaq]

waa? The 295 is fine and is Nvidia's closest competitor to the 5870 and it looks to be a bit faster. It does take a little hassle at times to configure SLI but most of the time there is very little. Some games have SLI bugs but it is less than 5% overall. I already have a pair of 3D glasses that only work with Nvidia cards. PhysX provides better immersion in games. It may or may not be around in two years but it is available now and some people would prefer to be able to have it.

And many people prefer Nvidia to ATI. Some prefer Coke over Pepsi, Levi's over Wrangler. etc. Who cares? Buy what you like.