ATI just lost a fanboi!

[flexy]

.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: aafuss
I was going to buy a 9200-but it was DX8.1, and I wanted VS/PS 2.0 and DX9 support , so I went for a Jetway FX5200 128MB with TV Out and DVI .

boomduhrussa dscheeeng

Classic

 

[rbV5]

FYI:

Originally posted by: rbV5
Here's a repost of a typical install of the latest MMC using the older ATI install disc and using the older ATI DVD player

Originally posted by: rbV5
Great, looks like the Cat driver installed fine. It also looks like your WDM's are right (if you don't have any yellow exclamation marks next to them in device manager).

You shouldn't have to do any reinstalls of your operating system. The ATI uninstaller does a fine job of removing the drivers (driver cleaner2 maybe a little better).

If you want to try to install the latest MMC 8.9, Here's how I would do it.

*Uninstall your existing ATI Multimedia Center and ATI DVD player (if it is a seperate entry) in "Add or Remove programs" in Control Panel. (Don't save your settings if it asks)
*Reboot
*Install Direct X 9b and Windows Media Encoder 9 if you haven't already installed them.
*Get your original ATI installation and look for a folder named "Gemstar" its probably in the "install" folder Double Click on the "setup" file and install the Gemstar Guide Plus program. Be sure to run the update wizard in the Gemstar (Guide Plus) program folder after the installation to update the program. Reboot if it asks you.
*Leave the ATI installation CD in the drive (for verification if needed) and install "only" ATI DVD player 7.6 reboot if it asks.
*Install the DAO / MDAC component (if you haven't already) reboot if it asks.
*Install ATI Mutimedia Center 8.9, you'll need to do a "custom" install and Make Sure You "UNcheck" the DVD player from the list<--important.

Hopefully, if all went well, at this point, you should have the latest Catalyst driver installed, and MMC 8.9 with DVD player 7.6 installed and working

Here's the original thread Link

Good luck!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: flexy
whow....you are a dumbo..sorry....

You have ANCIENT video-cards in your system.

Cards i can get off ebay for $30 or so...cards ATI does not make money off anymore....and then you expect free stuff coming in because you own these three old cards ?

NEVERTHELESS - you are also complaing about 'its not free' - but reading your post again they only want $9,99 for the new software.

Not $99, not $999 like you sound in your posting.

I understand your point....you once spent $$$ on the cards. Ok...but where is the border ? ASSUMING Tseng would have some great capture program out which users of new Tseng cards can d/l fr free - would make me wodner to be able to d/l the same software just proving that i am still owner of a ca. 1985 Tseng ET400 cards somewhere in my garbage bin ? And yes...i might very well have paid 100s of $$$ aeons ago for this card....

Tseng? That brings back memories. Seems to me I had a STB Lightspeed board with a Tseng 6000 chip that was the mac daddy back in the day.

 

[DurocShark]

Well, folks, it's a choice ATI has made, and my not buying their products is my choice.

I prefer to work with companies that try to keep their customers as happy as possible. If ATI can't get install packages that know how to work with existing licenses and make me either use arcane methods to do the install, or consider bootlegging a more recent version of the install disk, I'm not interested in dealing with them.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Well, folks, it's a choice ATI has made, and my not buying their products is my choice.

I prefer to work with companies that try to keep their customers as happy as possible. If ATI can't get install packages that know how to work with existing licenses and make me either use arcane methods to do the install, or consider bootlegging a more recent version of the install disk, I'm not interested in dealing with them.

Or if you still had the install disk for your AIW 9000, or is it their fault you lost that too? Its your decision, thats true, but despite what you say, they do provide upgrades to all the software required to use all the features of your cards and its freely available for download from their site. Gemstar EPG (which I guess was your original beef) doesn't even have an upgrade for download (despite what your brother in law told you) and is not even ATI's software.

The Cinemaster ATI DVD player is available (you already use a different software anyway) and does work if you install it with the newest MMC. The installation is not much of a big deal for an experienced user either)

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Software support has NEVER been ATI's strong point... the main reason I prefer nvidia

 

[Childs]

I can see the OP's point. ATI isn't charging him $10 for new software, they are charging him for the priviledge of running the update software on a "lower end" card. His disc isnt broken, the updater is looking at the disc, seeing that its for an 8500AIW, and saying gimme $10. This appears to be an update to his original software, like patches and improvements. I ran into the same thing with a Logitech Webcam and which version of Windows I was running. Very irritating. I don't really buy their stuff anymore, except the mice, but you don't need software for that.

See if you can determine if all they are doing is checking the volume label on the CD, then make a copy and change the label. Just ask someone for the label name. Might be looking in the registry too. This is a shame, because at the time your 8500 AIW DV probably cost you more than your 9000 AIW. Unless there are bugs in the software which would cause a problem on an AIW8500DV, I see no reason why they would go out of their way to discourge you from updating the software. I'd take that $10 and put it towards a $100 OEM PVR-250, or the $70 oem ewonder. The MPEG2 hardware encoding is better for HTPC use. Doesn't really help you with Gemstar, but then go with something like myHTPC or SageTV and be rid of ATI's software on principle.

 

[Childs]

BTW, SageTV is only $50, so for $40 more than buying the disc you can get a vastly superior software package.

 

[rbV5]

I can see the OP's point. ATI isn't charging him $10 for new software, they are charging him for the priviledge of running the update software on a "lower end" card.

BS, They are charging him $10 to replace the CD he already had. His AIW 9000 card came with the new installation CD

EDIT: Sorry, it's the 9000 or higher. But my 9000 disc is long gone>,

his 8500dv (also an AIW card) came with the older installation disc.

The $10 is for the DVD decoders and Gemstar Guide+, they are not freeware, they are third party licensed software. The older installation disc had Cinemaster DVD decoders that the royalty was paid when he bought the card that included that disc<ATI pays Cinemaster from the Sale> The newer installation disc has Cyberlink DVD decoders, which again the royalty was paid from the purchase price of the card <ATI pays Cyberlink>.

Cyberlink, nor Cinemaster nor Gemstar will allow ATI to place their commercial licenced software freely available for download. Gemstar allows upgrade through the application itself, both Cyberlink and Cinemaster allow freely available downloads ONLY because of the verification requirement of having the physical original installation disc. Cyberlink WILL NOT ALLOW ATI to update Cinemaster DVD software using Cyberlinks DVD software without them paying for the decoders. Cinemaster WILL NOT ALLOW ATI to update Cyberlinks DVD software with Cinemaster DVD software without them paying for the decoders.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Childs
BTW, SageTV is only $50, so for $40 more than buying the disc you can get a vastly superior software package.

Why shouldn't SageTV let him update for free following your line of reasoning?

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: rbV5

I can see the OP's point. ATI isn't charging him $10 for new software, they are charging him for the priviledge of running the update software on a "lower end" card.

BS, They are charging him $10 to replace the CD he already had. His AIW 9000 card came with the new installation CD

EDIT: Sorry, it's the 9000 or higher. But my 9000 disc is long gone>,

his 8500dv (also an AIW card) came with the older installation disc.

The $10 is for the DVD decoders and Gemstar Guide+, they are not freeware, they are third party licensed software. The older installation disc had Cinemaster DVD decoders that the royalty was paid when he bought the card that included that disc<ATI pays Cinemaster from the Sale> The newer installation disc has Cyberlink DVD decoders, which again the royalty was paid from the purchase price of the card <ATI pays Cyberlink>.

Cyberlink, nor Cinemaster nor Gemstar will allow ATI to place their commercial licenced software freely available for download. Gemstar allows upgrade through the application itself, both Cyberlink and Cinemaster allow freely available downloads ONLY because of the verification requirement of having the physical original installation disc. Cyberlink WILL NOT ALLOW ATI to update Cinemaster DVD software using Cyberlinks DVD software without them paying for the decoders. Cinemaster WILL NOT ALLOW ATI to update Cyberlinks DVD software with Cinemaster DVD software without them paying for the decoders.

Isn't he trying to update the original software on his AIW8500DV? OP, please correct me if I'm wrong. That would change my stance. Even if he did lose his disc and wanted to use his 9000, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to download the software. Even if it meant calling up support, giving them his name and serial number on the card, then sending him to a URL with a password. He did purchase the card, and doesn't need them to physically send him the CD. Its not free if he already paid for it.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Childs
BTW, SageTV is only $50, so for $40 more than buying the disc you can get a vastly superior software package.

Why shouldn't SageTV let him update for free following your line of reasoning?

My line of reasoning is based on the fact that he already paid for it when he bought the card. With Sage, when you buy 1.4 you get updates to 2. He wouldn't be buying it, then spending another $10 to download it again, or another $10 up update the software.

 

[rbV5]

Isn't he trying to update the original software on his AIW8500DV? OP, please correct me if I'm wrong. That would change my stance

He is trying to update Gemstar Guide+

I've been really happy with them up till tonight.

The Gemstar software that shipped with the 8500DV sucked. My brother in law just told me about an available upgrade, so I went to ATIs site to get it.

This is false. There is no Gemstar software available for download anywhere on ATI's site. It is the same software on either installation disc (#versions are different) it makes no difference whatsoever which installation disc you use, after you install the software, you update IT, with ITS upgrade wizard. The only requirement is that you have ANY installation disc. The entire thread is based on false assumptions.

Any other discussion in the thread is secondary to the topic, and apparently that escapes nearly everyone.

 

[Childs]

OP, just use myhtpc

Ok, calm down, and read the fine print. Only 9200s or newer qualify for the free upgrade. All others have to buy a NEW disc for $9.99 + s&h.

So the upgrade uses any installation except the AIW 8500DV installation CD? Thats still pretty weak. Use above link! IMO OP is justified somewhat, but I don't even know if you can get Nvidia Personal Cinema anymore.

 

[elkinm]

You are definitely overreacting. Yes I know that these disks suck and I really don't like them as they only work half the time. If you really want, call them up tell them your 9800 AIW CD does not work or somehting like that and they may send you a new one at no charge or they might even send you a replacement if you tell them you only have an 8500DV.

But basically not going with ATI because this software sucks is just know reason. I don't know what Gemstar does exactly but do you really need it. Some ATI software is great but personally I haven't installed any software that came with my hardware for well over two years. It's not the best when I have my own preferences and lately this software is only a crippled OEM version not worth my time.

If you still need the CD that badly just go to a retail store, buy a newer card use the software disk to update and then just return it. Definitely the not so nice thing to do but it works.

Also, if you think you will leave ATI, and if you think that NVIDIA software you might get will even come close to ATI software you have a hard lesson ahead of you.

You will go ATI again, trust me (unless the nv40 trounces the r420 and the move up 5 generations in software and video entertainment capabilities) I know I will.

 

[DurocShark]

Heh. I do use myHTPC, but haven't gotten around to messing with it much. Right now it's just a front end.

The installer does hang on the DVD software installation. Other stuff is fine. I was not aware that it was a different vendor, etc.

Regardless, I think there should be more information on the site explaining things. Instead, there's a small blurb of fine print at the bottom of the web page saying "go here and send us money if you don't have a 9000 or higher". Then I wouldn't have gotten quite so pi$$ed. After all, if it's a different company's software, but unnecessary, I'd understand.

Yeah, I discovered that Gemstar is crap no matter what version is used.

But, yes, I was just trying to update the software that came with my card, not get any freebies.

 

[rbV5]

Yeah, I discovered that Gemstar is crap no matter what version is used.

So, whats up with your Gemstar anyway? Is it not working, or updating your listings?

 

[howdyduty]

And I thought the quips about the Jetway in the many threads I read tonight were a knockoff.

Get a Jetway ~~ Get a Dell. Hilarious.

Anyway, these guys have some good pointers here on working through the issue. Good Luck.

 

[bluemax]

Oops.... I lost my Radeon 9800XT.... they should send me a new one.
I got my $20 for shipping right here.....

 

[NicColt]

We went through all this a while back but ....

>ALL MMC VERSIONS ARE FREELY AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD AND WILL INSTALL ON ANY AIW RADEON CARD

that is not totally true...

"Owners of older ATI products currently using MMC 7.7.0.1 or older software will need to purchase a new installation CD in order to install the MMC 8.8 DVD support. Information on purchasing an installation CD can be found at ATI.com.**"

Your statement should be - All MMC versions Except v8.8 and above with DVD support are freely available.

the point is that even though you purchase a card and software from ATI with MMC 7.7.0.1 and if you want to upgrade to MMC 8.8 or above with DVD support you have to pay for it.

I understand for the newer decoder but what I find low is that ATI is forcing you to either not pay and not upgrade or upgrade and not play DVD's. If you want the same functionality for your radeon card you will have to pay for the upgrade.

That's like bying a car with free oil changes for life only to find out that once your bring the car in for an oil change the labor is $300/hr.

Before bying a video card ATI should have warned you that all upgrades may not be free.

Sorry if this was mentioned but I read this post rather quickly.

 

[DurocShark]

Thanks Nic.

Gemstar sucks. It's a PITA to configure for different drives and such, it's ugly, and loaded with large ads. I was hoping for some easier configuration tools... Stuff my family can use if necessary.

 

[MDE]

Nic, the catch is that with the TV Wonder VE you can't upgrade past 7.9 no matter what, it just won't install. I don't need or want ATI's DVD player, NVDVD is leaps and bounds better, and came free with my video card. I wouldn't care if the card was discontinued or end-of-life, but it's STILL being sold in retail (matter of fact, they updated the box art with the new ATI logo) and they're forcing old software down your throat with a "new" card.

 

[DurocShark]

My 8500DV is also still available, though only at a few places...

http://www.pcpartsohio.com/BookDetail.aspx?item_id=126&

 

[rbV5]

>>ALL MMC VERSIONS ARE FREELY AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD AND WILL INSTALL ON ANY AIW RADEON CARD

that is not totally true...

"Owners of older ATI products currently using MMC 7.7.0.1 or older software will need to purchase a new installation CD in order to install the MMC 8.8 DVD support. Information on purchasing an installation CD can be found at ATI.com.**"

Your statement should be - All MMC versions Except v8.8 and above with DVD support are freely available.

All MMC versions are free to download despite what you claim. DVD support for owners of the older version cards works fine with any version of MMC, and DVD 7.6(the last version) is a free download. The workaround is to install DVD 7.6 prior to MMC 8.1 and above and uncheck DVD during a custom install and it works fine.

Keep beating the dead horse if you want, but the OP actually had the proper installation disc but lost it. He isn't even wanting to install the DVD player because he has other software he prefers to use. His beef is with Gemstar Guide + and an unfounded claim by his brother in law about an updated version that allegedly was available from ATI. Of course thats BS, there are no Gemstar Guide + downloads at ATI..it isn't even ATI software (and it upgrades itself)

but what I find low is that ATI is forcing you to either not pay and not upgrade or upgrade and not play DVD's. If you want the same functionality for your radeon card you will have to pay for the upgrade.

Thats BS the Cinemaster DVD player works with the newer MMC, as I've explained/shown/discussed.

Nic, the catch is that with the TV Wonder VE you can't upgrade past 7.9 no matter what, it just won't install.

MMC 9.0 for TV WONDER VE / ATI TV WONDER PCI Windows XP Software

I'm not a big fan of the TV Wonder line, but upgraded software is certainly freely available for download.