ATi Radeon 4890 Discussion

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
If the HD 4870 1GB consumes less power at full load than the GTX 260+, It should consume less power at idle if the VRAM was able to downclock itself, something that doesn't happen currently. My Sapphire card idles at 52C in a room temperature of 79F, and never goes beyond 70C in full load, and the fan is inaudible, it may ramp up for a second and then it goes back, such a crazy fan.

But I always knew that the HD 4900 series would be a simple souped up HD 4870, but since the manufacturing process matures, probably will consume as much power as the HD 4870 1GB even with it's higher clocks, the same phenomenom happened when the HD 4870 1GB was launched, consumed less power at idle and load compared to the HD 4870 512MB version.

Right. IF the rumors are true it would make perfect sense. This costs AMD no R&D dollars. They are already building these chips, for the 4870 they just turn off parts to keep it at spec. If things have matured to the point that they can get another 100MHz and everything in the core tests out fine, than just leaving everything enabled and setting the clock speed higher gives them a part to sell for a much higher profit margin for the exact same parts they're producing right now. Now they have a part they can sell for another $100 per unit profit (just pulling a number out of my ass as an example) that costs exactly the same to manufacture, that they are already manufacturing.

With Nvidia it looks like they already made that part from the beginning in the GTX280. This is just like if Nvidia would have launched the GTX260 as their flagship product, but were building them like GTX280's, then introduced the GTX280 later.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
But I don't see how that means they can't make a faster version.

I never said they can't make one

I just stated that it would most likely increase the heat, noise and power draw issues that are already prevalent.

You also said, "They will need a 3 slot heat sink for the 4890." The GTX280 puts out more heat and uses more power then the GTX260. Who cares? It's a high end part.

The 4890 would probably use power and put out heat that is at similar levels to the GTX280. It's also going to be a higher performing part then the GTX260/4870.

Do you complain in GTX280 threads about how much heat they put out?

Do you complain in GTX280 threads about their power useage?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder


Right. IF the rumors are true it would make perfect sense. This costs AMD no R&D dollars. They are already building these chips, for the 4870 they just turn off parts to keep it at spec. If things have matured to the point that they can get another 100MHz and everything in the core tests out fine, than just leaving everything enabled and setting the clock speed higher gives them a part to sell for a much higher profit margin for the exact same parts they're producing right now. Now they have a part they can sell for another $100 per unit profit (just pulling a number out of my ass as an example) that costs exactly the same to manufacture, that they are already manufacturing.

What you are describing is a rebadge. Which ATI fans have clearly stated is evil.

All in how ya spin it I guess.

Either way the rumors keep changing and it will be interesting to see what the final product is. No use arguing over a card that for all intents and purposes does not even exist.

Wreckage out!

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder


Right. IF the rumors are true it would make perfect sense. This costs AMD no R&D dollars. They are already building these chips, for the 4870 they just turn off parts to keep it at spec. If things have matured to the point that they can get another 100MHz and everything in the core tests out fine, than just leaving everything enabled and setting the clock speed higher gives them a part to sell for a much higher profit margin for the exact same parts they're producing right now. Now they have a part they can sell for another $100 per unit profit (just pulling a number out of my ass as an example) that costs exactly the same to manufacture, that they are already manufacturing.

What you are describing is a rebadge. Which ATI fans have clearly stated is evil.

All in how ya spin it I guess.

No more of a rebadge then the GTX280 being a rebadge of the GTX260. I think we can all agree that they are not rebadges, but chips with different specs and performance that are based off of the same chip. Hardly a rebadge. Try harder.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Second would be if they can put a ton of little Athlon cores together to compete with Larabee. Don't put this option past AMD - it was the original plan for the Phenom, and it delayed Phenom's release considerably, which tells us AMD took that design pretty far before scrapping it.

Is the Athlon core small enough to be effective in the regards that Intel's larrabee coresize allows them to be?

Larrabee is like a gutted Pentium chip IIRC. For AMD to compete on core-number and core size they'd need to reach back to K6 architecture wouldn't they? (and K6 wasn't very strong at FP IIRC, they needed K7 and its sizable larger xtor count to get the FP in shape)

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Second would be if they can put a ton of little Athlon cores together to compete with Larabee. Don't put this option past AMD - it was the original plan for the Phenom, and it delayed Phenom's release considerably, which tells us AMD took that design pretty far before scrapping it.

Is the Athlon core small enough to be effective in the regards that Intel's larrabee coresize allows them to be?

Larrabee is like a gutted Pentium chip IIRC. For AMD to compete on core-number and core size they'd need to reach back to K6 architecture wouldn't they? (and K6 wasn't very strong at FP IIRC, they needed K7 and its sizable larger xtor count to get the FP in shape)

Wouldn't it be possible to have lower number of higher performing K7 based cores? 45 or 32nm Athlons would be interesting. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Larrabee brings to the table... it's so very different from what I've read, yet it's kind of similar in that if you look at SP's on current GPU's as 'cores' the idea is somewhat similar. At any rate I'm curious to see what Intel can do in the graphics world.

 

[thilanliyan]

http://www.pcgameshardware.com...s-from-the-Cebit/News/

What's the point? The 4870 1GB already competes with the 260.



Merged into current thread.

Video Mod BFG10K.

 

[Wreckage]

Yep, I've been saying this since the rumors started.

 

[OCGuy]

What is the point of this again? I think most of us are excited for Q3 for the real next gen from ATi and nV.

Damn 40nm delays + economy

 

[ilkhan]

Im waiting for 40nm nvidia, myself. Call me a fanboy, but AMD just doesn't excite me. I don't want to be that driver dependent for performance.

 

[Zstream]

If it is just a speed increase we are looking at 5-15% depending on the resolution. Since we all expect that they will have some modifications it will improve possibly by another 5-10%. This leaves us in the 20% category... Nothing really spectacular but at 40nm and the way the economy is I see no other options. Why not gain in the popular mid-market segment? High end is usually very little sales.

 

[Keysplayr]

Going to be a long hard road to get this country back to where it was around 10 years ago. Just buckle down and bear it. Going to be slow products to market.

 

[Paratus]

From the disappeared 4890 thread:

Um I seem to remember ATI laying in the weeds a bit last time.

Didn't they say the 4850 would only compete with the 8800gt and the 4870 would compete with the 9800GTX?

And of course everyone knows, (no offense Wreckage, chizow, and Ocguy ) the 4850 beats the 9800GTX and the 4870 beat the original 260GTS.

So if they say they are competing with the 260 core 216 it might just beat the 280 and give the GTX285 a run for it's money.

IMO of course

PS - Every damn time I have a video post typed out on my PDA somebody locks or deletes the thing.

posted via Palm Life Drive

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: ilkhan
Im waiting for 40nm nvidia, myself. Call me a fanboy, but AMD just doesn't excite me. I don't want to be that driver dependent for performance.

Both nVidia and ATI are dependent on drivers for their ultra high end (ie 295 and 4870x2) or are you saying every single card from ATI is completely driver dependent? That's actually true but then so are ALL video cards.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: thilan29
http://www.pcgameshardware.com...s-from-the-Cebit/News/

What's the point? The 4870 1GB already competes with the 260.



Merged into current thread.

Video Mod BFG10K.

I think I've seen it posted a few times both ways now, that this will just be a speed increase and that this will be a GPU with different specs all together... at this point I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Infact, we'll have to wait and see if it really even ends up coming into existance at all. I think this is the third time now that a 'super RV770' chip rumor has started up.

 

[Wreckage]

Just a rebadge with a slight clock increase. Probably been binning parts for awhile now and finally have enough for a release.

Maybe this is why there were little or no "factory overclocked" cards. As it seems to be what we are now looking at.

As others have noted may just be a sign of the times as with the market down development will be down as well.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Just a rebadge with a slight clock increase. Probably been binning parts for awhile now and finally have enough for a release.

Maybe this is why there were little or no "factory overclocked" cards. As it seems to be what we are now looking at.

As others have noted may just be a sign of the times as with the market down development will be down as well.

It isn't a rebadge, is just another product refresh of the same family, like X800 to X850, GeForce 7900 to 7950, a rebadge is like alchemy, taking an old chip, change its name and pretend it's new, aka GTS 250, aka 9800GTX+ or 9800GTX. Isn't like ATi is calling it HD 4980 or something like that. And yes indeed, the market is down because of the less demand, hence less development... sad times.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: evolucion8
a rebadge is like alchemy, taking an old chip, change its name and pretend it's new

But that's exactly what they are doing. It's the old chip. It's a factory overclocked card that they are calling something new.

 

[TC91]

i find it hard to believe they can keep it cool enough @>850mhz... My reference sapphire 4870 1gb does 80-2c idle and 94c+ loaded (stock clocks+auto fan). When loaded the fan spins up to 38-39% and is pretty darn loud.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: evolucion8
a rebadge is like alchemy, taking an old chip, change its name and pretend it's new

But that's exactly what they are doing. It's the old chip. It's a factory overclocked card that they are calling something new.

Funny hahaha, HD 4890 is a higher number, hence better performance than the HD 4870, or you pretend to create a new chip from the ground for just a speed bump in the same family? Poor the soul for someone who buys the GTS 250 pretending than is an upgrade from the 8800GT or 9800GTX he/she owned previously. Makes complete sense that there's no huge differences in performance between the HD 4830, HD 4850, HD 4870 and soon the HD 4890.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: TC91
i find it hard to believe they can keep it cool enough @>850mhz... My reference sapphire 4870 1gb does 80-2c idle and 94c+ loaded (stock clocks+auto fan). When loaded the fan spins up to 38-39% and is pretty darn loud.

http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-co..._cooled_case_mod_3.jpg

:laugh:

 

[Cookie Monster]

ATi does have a history of refining their gpu core to increase clock speeds e.g R300 -> R350 -> R360. There has been a report of a switch to the 55nm "GT" process from TSMC (Not the GP or GC) so this could be quite true. Im guessing that RV790 does indeed allow ATi to clock their chips 150~250MHz higher than their current offerings without going overboard in the TDP apartment. Quite impressive when the entire chip along with 800 ALUs are running at near ~1GHz speed if rumours are to be believed.

 

[evolucion8]

Yeah, as a good example, the R300 chip, it was an incredible feat to master it to run up to 412MHz in a 150nm manufacturing process, specially that the chip was complex and ahead of it's time, the same thing with the X800 which was the first and only Low K Black Diamond 130nm chip which was clocked to 560MHz and people successfully overclocked it to 600MHz, no 130nm nVidia GPU could be clocked that high. ATi has always tried to maximize each transistor in each GPU.

Originally posted by: TC91
i find it hard to believe they can keep it cool enough @>850mhz... My reference sapphire 4870 1gb does 80-2c idle and 94c+ loaded (stock clocks+auto fan). When loaded the fan spins up to 38-39% and is pretty darn loud.

Try to reseat the cooler and apply some good thermal paste. If your card was from the very first generation of HD 4870 from Sapphire, try to update your BIOS, I have a friend which has the Sapphire with the same reference cooler and his card idles at 47C and never goes above 80C in full load, he bought the last batch before it went out of stock in Newegg, and that's in a room temperature of 84F.

 

[allies]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: TC91
i find it hard to believe they can keep it cool enough @>850mhz... My reference sapphire 4870 1gb does 80-2c idle and 94c+ loaded (stock clocks+auto fan). When loaded the fan spins up to 38-39% and is pretty darn loud.

http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-co..._cooled_case_mod_3.jpg

:laugh:

Dude that's the aftermarket cooler for the FX5800! Did the figure out a way to mount it on the 48xx series??

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: TC91
i find it hard to believe they can keep it cool enough @>850mhz... My reference sapphire 4870 1gb does 80-2c idle and 94c+ loaded (stock clocks+auto fan). When loaded the fan spins up to 38-39% and is pretty darn loud.

Those are pretty high temps. When mine was on stock cooling and clocks it got up to about 85C at load. What are your room temps? How is your case cooling?