ATi Radeon 4890 Discussion

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: chizow
Next week it'll be 1050MHz and called the 4999. :laugh: This rumor had more bite the first time it popped up 8 months ago. I could see an air-cooled variant at 850MHz, but 950MHz would probably require water cooling as the original rumor stated.

Yes, it is Due April 1st, isn't it?
:Q

 

[SlowSpyder]

Latest rumor from Fudzilla. Funny, it completely contradicts their earlier rumor I posted on page 1 that it's just a speed bump in the same GPU.

Fudzilla: RV790 is a new chip.

Here is what I posted on page one.

I guess this is why people don't trust Fud... just create stories stating all of the options so you can go back later once the hardware is released and say "I told you so here!"

 

[Piano Man]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Latest rumor from Fudzilla. Funny, it completely contradicts their earlier rumor I posted on page 1 that it's just a speed bump in the same GPU.

Fudzilla: RV790 is a new chip.

Here is what I posted on page one.

I guess this is why people don't trust Fud... just create stories stating all of the options so you can go back later once the hardware is released and say "I told you so here!"

If this thing gets close to the 285 for 300 clams, I may have to put that refund to work!

 

[OCGuy]

A "new chip" that "may get close to 285"?


Zzzzzzzzzz


I have a hard time believeing ATi would waste the money on a new chip that doesnt advance in performance. Damn these FUD sites.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Piano Man


If this thing gets close to the 285 for 300 clams, I may have to put that refund to work!

You can get a GTX 285 for $319 AR

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127403

 

[edplayer]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

I have a hard time believeing ATi would waste the money on a new chip that doesnt advance in performance. Damn these FUD sites.

I don't

If they can make a new chip that keeps or ups the performance at a significantly lower cost, it makes sense to consider that option. They are a business and their ultimate goal is to make money. Impressing a couple of nerds on the net, is not. GTX 285, 4870 and X2s do not make up these companies "bread and butter". Low end and mid-range cards do.

That doesn't mean that I think what Fudzilla claims is true, I'm saying that the notion of you need to make the fastest and each gen. has to be substantially faster is not the only viable business model

 

[NinjaGnome]

as long as the dx11 cards come out by august and are good, I will not care what they do in April

 

[mhouck]

Apparently I missed this thread when I started one earlier today. Basically the only things I can add to the converstation is this article.

Techtree

The article says in addition to the bumped up clocks they are doing to be an additionaly 160 SPs bring it to a total of 960.

Sorry BFG10k. Mods keep us on point! :thumbsup:

 

[Wreckage]

I don't know how much farther they can stretch the 4850 core. With the 4870 it already runs very hot and draws a lot of power.

They will need a 3 slot heat sink for the 4890.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
I don't know how much farther they can stretch the 4850 core. With the 4870 it already runs very hot and draws a lot of power.

They will need a 3 slot heat sink for the 4890.

Just like they need a 3 slot heatsink for the GTX280, the 4870x2 and the GTX295 right? :roll:

Seriously, you can chizow should just come out and admit you two are on the focus group already.

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
I don't know how much farther they can stretch the 4850 core. With the 4870 it already runs very hot and draws a lot of power.

They will need a 3 slot heat sink for the 4890.

The 4870 1GB draws less power than the GTX260 according to your fav techreport review site. Even the GPU temps load temps are great with the Asus card they used.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

The 4870 1GB draws less power than the GTX260 according to your fav techreport review site. Even the GPU temps load temps are great with the Asus card they used.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10

The 4870 draws 175 - 180 at idle while the 260 only draws 143.


I assume you posted the link without actually reading it.

The load temp on the 4870 512 was 84C :shocked:

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

The 4870 1GB draws less power than the GTX260 according to your fav techreport review site. Even the GPU temps load temps are great with the Asus card they used.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10

The 4870 draws 175 - 180 at idle while the 260 only draws 143.


I assume you posted the link without actually reading it.

The load temp on the 4870 512 was 84C :shocked:

That can easly be fixed just by changing the idle clocks, big to do!

Fan speed on the 4870 512MB is another big to do!

Take me a whole couple seconds to fix that in Rivatuner or ATT.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

That can easly be fixed just by changing the idle clocks, big to do!

Fan speed on the 4870 512MB is another big to do!

Take me a whole couple seconds to fix that in Rivatuner or ATT.

That will fix the idle power consumptions? That will only make it worse! :shocked:

Not to mention the noise! :Q

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

That can easly be fixed just by changing the idle clocks, big to do!

Fan speed on the 4870 512MB is another big to do!

Take me a whole couple seconds to fix that in Rivatuner or ATT.

That will fix the idle power consumptions? That will only make it worse! :shocked:

Not to mention the noise! :Q

My god you are a pain!

My 4870 1GB stock runs 43c on the lowest fan speed, it's not even audible at 12% fan speed.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001


My 4870 1GB stock runs 43c on the lowest fan speed, it's not even audible at 12% fan speed.

All those reviewers must be wrong then.

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001


My 4870 1GB stock runs 43c on the lowest fan speed, it's not even audible at 12% fan speed.

All those reviewers must be wrong then.

Your GTX260 downclocks the memory down to 100mhz on idle, while the 4870 is idling at the full 900mhz.

With ATT or Rivatuner the memory clocks on any 4870 can be change to 200mhz and also the voltage can also be decreased. With those 2 thing combined the 4870 will have just as nice of a idle power.

If you want to know more than read this page.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=67928

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001


My 4870 1GB stock runs 43c on the lowest fan speed, it's not even audible at 12% fan speed.

All those reviewers must be wrong then.

Your GTX260 downclocks the memory down to 100mhz on idle, while the 4870 is idling at the full 900mhz.

With ATT or Rivatuner the memory clocks on any 4870 can be change to 200mhz and also the voltage change also be decreased. With those 2 thing combined the 4870 will have just as nice of a idle power.

If you want to know more than read this page.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=67928

I guess that totally debunks any claims that it gets too hot, too. How could it if you can downclock it? Sounds to me like we've got some pro-nvidia trolls. They're great at poisoning the well...

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

The 4870 1GB draws less power than the GTX260 according to your fav techreport review site. Even the GPU temps load temps are great with the Asus card they used.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10

The 4870 draws 175 - 180 at idle while the 260 only draws 143.


I assume you posted the link without actually reading it.

The load temp on the 4870 512 was 84C :shocked:

Yup, Nvidia has some better power saving features when the chip is not in use. AMD should have implemented better power saving features, I'm sure their small chip and high clocked memory could save a lot of power had they been more aggressive in down-clocking them. Nvidia is better there.

With that being said, no one gives a shit about idle power for the focus of this conversation. We're talking about a bigger/faster RV770. If when under load the current RV770's were hot and sucking up huge amounts of power, than I'd agree that it would be difficult for AMD to get even more out of them. But the fact is, even by your favorite site, the 4870 1GB is using LESS power at load than the GTX260 216. The reference cooler works fine with some fan speed. I have no doubt that they can increase the speed and/or have more TU's and SP's in the chip and still be perfectly fine with a 2 slot cooler, probably even the reference one they have now if they give it a little fan speed.

So again, you are wrong.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The reference cooler works fine with some fan speed.

If you mess with the fan speed then it gets louder and sucks more power.

We covered this already.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The reference cooler works fine with some fan speed.

If you mess with the fan speed then it gets louder and sucks more power.

We covered this already.

The ref. fan speed is very low, to the point that they tried to make it inaudible. You can give it some speed and still have a very tolerable amount of noise. I'm not suggesting that 80% is where people should set their fan speed. My fan runs at 29%, I can tell no difference in noise until I push it to about 45%.

Even it increasing the fan speed made the 4870 use equal power as the GTX260 (I'm sure adding 15% fan speed does not use 15 watts) it wouldn't matter. The GTX260 is a smaller slower version of the GTX280. Nvidia's GTX260 uses more power at load than the 4870, yet Nvidia is able to have a chip that is both faster in clock speed, and has more 'stuff' enabled in the core... the GTX280. But you feel AMD won't be able to do the same?

*edit - The fact that the GTX280 exists negates everything you're saying pretty much. It's like arguing that AMD can't make a quad core with a higher clock frequency based on the power and temps the tri-cores run at. The GTX280 has more parts enabled in the core and does it at a faster clock frequency. It doesn't need a trislot cooler. It doesn't need something crazy like 2 8-pin connectors or 3 6-pin connectors. Yet there it is, using more power and putting out more heat than the GTX260 or 4870 and doing just fine.

 

[Wreckage]

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22

These cards get way too hot. I keep burning my hands when I try to swap them out, and Anand seems to enjoy using recently tested 4800 series cards as space heaters. We didn't look at heat data for this article, but our 4850 tests show that things get toasty. And the 4870 gets hugely hot.

when the 4870 spins up I tend to glance out the window to make sure a jet isn't just about to fly into the building. It's hugely loud at load

 

[evolucion8]

If the HD 4870 1GB consumes less power at full load than the GTX 260+, It should consume less power at idle if the VRAM was able to downclock itself, something that doesn't happen currently. My Sapphire card idles at 52C in a room temperature of 79F, and never goes beyond 70C in full load, and the fan is inaudible, it may ramp up for a second and then it goes back, such a crazy fan.

But I always knew that the HD 4900 series would be a simple souped up HD 4870, but since the manufacturing process matures, probably will consume as much power as the HD 4870 1GB even with it's higher clocks, the same phenomenom happened when the HD 4870 1GB was launched, consumed less power at idle and load compared to the HD 4870 512MB version.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22

These cards get way too hot. I keep burning my hands when I try to swap them out, and Anand seems to enjoy using recently tested 4800 series cards as space heaters. We didn't look at heat data for this article, but our 4850 tests show that things get toasty. And the 4870 gets hugely hot.

when the 4870 spins up I tend to glance out the window to make sure a jet isn't just about to fly into the building. It's hugely loud at load

I don't think anyone is arguing that the 4870/4850 don't put out plenty of heat. I can tell you from first hand experience that the heat pipes on my card get hot enough that they are uncomfortable to touch (ofcourse I'm at 820MHz on the core too). But I don't see how that means they can't make a faster version. Is this some new metric that I wasn't aware of, the test of how far the silicon can be pushed is based on if it is hot to an AT editors hands?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
But I don't see how that means they can't make a faster version.

I never said they can't make one

I just stated that it would most likely increase the heat, noise and power draw issues that are already prevalent.