ATi Radeon X1800

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: hans030390
I've heard sources claiming the 16pipe version would beat a 7800gtx, which COULD make sense considering the X850 is close to the 7800gtx...and thats a 8 pipeline difference. A huge OC could close that gap.

Not to be brash, but last I checked, the 7800GTX wiped the floor with X850.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
:Q a 650mhz 32 pipes card!!!!!!!!! nVidia complete Ownage if it's true.

My guess is this...

- the ten 32-pipe cores were the original design before the re-tapes
- the 24-pipe cores were the ones after the early re-tapes
- the 16-pipe core is the end result of all the re-tapes, is the one running at 650MHz, and is the core that will be used in the mass production cards.

Yeah it cannot be a 650mhz 32 pipes, the 32 is probably ~ 400-450mhz.

QFT.
This is all coming to sense now.
ATi wanted to release the 32pipe version, but i guess due to the poor yields, they decided to go with the 24. But then, this also resulted with poor yield, and for the third time they went on with the 16pipe R520, which looks like it had good yields.

Now the R520 XT or XI 800 XT will most propbably be R520 with 24 pipe version with 512mb. The reason for the 512mb is because of the limited number of the cards, ATi will want to sell these beasts for every penny its worth for.

The real deal is the R520 XL, which is probably XI 800 XL. Clocked at 600/1400 at 16 pipelines, its here with many times larger quanity than the XT. The main competitor to the GT and maybe the GTX.

Apparently, Nvidia has cancelled the 7800 ultra, because of the current sales of the GTX, and which might hurt its own sales. Also note from the inq that it was a higher clocked G70 which is most probably right. (Most GTXs can be OCed to 500 with ease, and when NV5 silencers start coming out for the 7 series, its going to be even more easy).
But we will see the 512mb version soon enough.

Looks like performance is going to almost a tie. If they made 10000 with the first batch aka the R520 with 32 pipes, then 7000ish for the XL and 8500ish for the 24 pipe version.


7600s will probably released during the release of R530 and R515.

Summarised from all speculations.
This is the most logical realistic situation that i can come up with ATi being late to the party.

Any more to add to that?

 

[Chesebert]

Originally posted by: jazzboy

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
:Q a 650mhz 32 pipes card!!!!!!!!! nVidia complete Ownage if it's true.

Umm, you are aware that pipes and clockspeeds don't mean so much nowadays?

Any report, whether reliable or not, which just tells you about pipes/clockspeeds is meaningless to me. When we have real benchmarks then I will sit up and take notice.

GFX processing is highly parallel so clock speed and pipes do mean something. There are only so many ways to do GFX processing or number cruching. Remember X2 is just 2 A64, is just a super tweaked version of old Athlon which is a archetictual copy of P3 <=> PM, which is a revision of P2, which is a revision of Ppro, which is a revision of P1 (Ppro would be the technical bottom where everything else spawn I guess) ...damn lazy Intel and AMD.

 

[Cookie Monster]

What really matters is the PRICE. Ati had 3 tape outs, and i dont think ATi want to lose any more money. So, even if the XL or the XT might edge the GTX or the GT in performance, it could end up more expensive than the two Nvidia cards.

7800GTs are found to be 370 to 400 dollars, way below the MSRP of $449.
7800GTXs are found to be 470 to 500 dollars, way below the MSRP of $599.

Price/Performance is what everyones looking for. Its going to be quite brutal in the next couple of months, two companies trying to "kill" each other. Not to mention the fanboys trying to the same aginst each other.

 

[Keysplayr]

Looks like 90nm is a real biznitch eh? Now that photo of the R480 core next to the R520 core makes more sense. They are 2 process shrinks apart and are virtually the same exact size length and width. The R520 may even have a millimeter more in length.
So, the R520 core has to have more than 16 pipes taking up that much real estate. They are just disabled due to very poor yields. Also account for SM3.0 transistors and such.
Its all coming together now.

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Paratus
I'm sure both Ronin and Rollo will each have two of those 10 cards in XFire mode within two weeks


(And then they say how it doesn't stack up to Nvidia )

Pretty Lame of you to say so.

Ya I know but I couldn't resist.

 

[Unkno]

i wonder if ati is mixing the new 16 pipe tape-out with the old tapeouts that failed to run at 32 pipelines...if this was true, then we might be able to enable a few of the pipelines that actually work. Very unlikely but still...

 

[Keysplayr]

You know, even if the 24 pipe yield was a thousand times better than the 32 pipe yield, there would still only be 10,000 24 pipe cards making it to market. And anyone can tell you that the odds of a thousand fold yield is unlikely. Just throwing the 1000 thing out there guys, did not hear this anywhere. Just for an abstraction. ATI seems to be having enough trouble stockpiling any kind of inventory at a reasonable rate with just 16 pipes, else we would have had them by now.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
You know, even if the 24 pipe yield was a thousand times better than the 32 pipe yield, there would still only be 10,000 24 pipe cards making it to market. And anyone can tell you that the odds of a thousand fold yield is unlikely. Just throwing the 1000 thing out there guys, did not hear this anywhere. Just for an abstraction. ATI seems to be having enough trouble stockpiling any kind of inventory at a reasonable rate with just 16 pipes, else we would have had them by now.

Well, that is pretty well said, except that Ati will also sell these cards, And like i said these 24 pipes could be the XT or XT PEs editions.

 

[compgeek89]

Or XT PE NS edition (Never Seen Edition)

 

[Unkno]

yea, it's very likely that IF there was a 24 pipeline (for this gen), it would be PE and just be their flagship card. Very expensive with little supply.

 

[jasonja]

You don't re-tapeout parts to get lower pipe count parts, you bin parts.

 

[Keysplayr]

Agreed. You re-tape out because you can't get the damn thing to work right.

 

[BFG10K]

It'll be criminal if the card does exist but it isn't benchmarked.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Agreed. You re-tape out because you can't get the damn thing to work right.

And to get good yields.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
It'll be criminal if the card does exist but it isn't benchmarked.

I agree, even if we can't have it. It'd be like the V5 6000...

32pipes @ 650MHz shouldn't just beat a 7800GTX, it'd should also give 7800GTX SLI a good run...but it does seem too good to be true. Even though there never seemed to be any articles that talked about the exact amount of pipes it was going to have...we were all thinking 32, then 24, then 16, now 32 again? Then there's the clock rate, first 700/800MHz, then 600/500MHz, then there's the oddball 650MHz number. What's next? It seems as if ATI is doing a good job at keeping everyone speculating, which doesn't mean much as it won't matter until we can get the cards. At this point I don't think I care how many pipes or how high the clock is, I just want to see some performance numbers.

 

[g3pro]

Meh. I'll wait until the Geforce 8800 to make a final decision.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
:Q a 650mhz 32 pipes card!!!!!!!!! nVidia complete Ownage if it's true.

Total wallet ownage as well.

In terms of performance king!

Megaworks your quotation is false at worst and at best, totally unconfirmed. Does accuracy not matter when it benefits your opinion?

Just had to point it out....

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: hans030390
I've heard sources claiming the 16pipe version would beat a 7800gtx, which COULD make sense considering the X850 is close to the 7800gtx...and thats a 8 pipeline difference. A huge OC could close that gap.

Not to be brash, but last I checked, the 7800GTX wiped the floor with X850.

Depends on the games you play. Some games it does wipe the floor but in a lot of others they are pretty dang close. I'm a little disappointed, truth be told, with the performance increase of my 7800GTX over my X850XT PE. In FarCry and HL2 they bench almost exactly the same numbers @1680x1050 4AA/8AF Max Detail.

 

[Polish3d]

Btw, back on topic, does anyone know why, if these guys have this part, that they haven't benchmarked it?

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: hans030390
I've heard sources claiming the 16pipe version would beat a 7800gtx, which COULD make sense considering the X850 is close to the 7800gtx...and thats a 8 pipeline difference. A huge OC could close that gap.

Not to be brash, but last I checked, the 7800GTX wiped the floor with X850.

Depends on the games you play. Some games it does wipe the floor but in a lot of others they are pretty dang close. I'm a little disappointed, truth be told, with the performance increase of my 7800GTX over my X850XT PE. In FarCry and HL2 they bench almost exactly the same numbers @1680x1050 4AA/8AF Max Detail.

You could be becoming CPU limited at such a resolution.

At that resolution your GTX should be 20+fps faster than the X850XT PE. If that's not enough increase, then I dunno.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: hans030390
I've heard sources claiming the 16pipe version would beat a 7800gtx, which COULD make sense considering the X850 is close to the 7800gtx...and thats a 8 pipeline difference. A huge OC could close that gap.

Not to be brash, but last I checked, the 7800GTX wiped the floor with X850.

Depends on the games you play. Some games it does wipe the floor but in a lot of others they are pretty dang close. I'm a little disappointed, truth be told, with the performance increase of my 7800GTX over my X850XT PE. In FarCry and HL2 they bench almost exactly the same numbers @1680x1050 4AA/8AF Max Detail.

How many times do I have to quote you and say that (in HL2 almost definitely at least) you are ************CPU LIMITED********************************


I benchmark my 7800GTX the same when I am at 1680x1050 *or* 1024x768.... means I am CPU limited man. You probably are too

 

[n7]

Thank god some users here have found out & mentioned what i have been saying forever: Most games these days are CPU-limited not GPU-limited.

Getting that 7800GTX for your 1280x1024 LCD with your A64 3000+ = teh jokes

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: hans030390
I've heard sources claiming the 16pipe version would beat a 7800gtx, which COULD make sense considering the X850 is close to the 7800gtx...and thats a 8 pipeline difference. A huge OC could close that gap.

Not to be brash, but last I checked, the 7800GTX wiped the floor with X850.

Depends on the games you play. Some games it does wipe the floor but in a lot of others they are pretty dang close. I'm a little disappointed, truth be told, with the performance increase of my 7800GTX over my X850XT PE. In FarCry and HL2 they bench almost exactly the same numbers @1680x1050 4AA/8AF Max Detail.

How many times do I have to quote you and say that (in HL2 almost definitely at least) you are ************CPU LIMITED********************************


I benchmark my 7800GTX the same when I am at 1680x1050 *or* 1024x768.... means I am CPU limited man. You probably are too

I realize that for HL2 I am more CPU bound than GPU. I guess I should have just mentioned FarCry which is definetely GPU dependant. I'll have to try out some other games and see what happens.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
:Q a 650mhz 32 pipes card!!!!!!!!! nVidia complete Ownage if it's true.

Total wallet ownage as well.

In terms of performance king!

Megaworks your quotation is false at worst and at best, totally unconfirmed. Does accuracy not matter when it benefits your opinion?

Just had to point it out....

False in what concept?