ATI9600pro problem.

[Wheete]

Ok this is what I have:
Athlon 1.2 gig
Epox 8KHA+ with latest bios
ATI9600pro
425W PSU
512 meg ram/2100

This machine has been running wonderfully for over a year now,
recently I upgraded my ATI7500 to a ATI9600pro. It passes Dxdiag etc, it runs ok on the first 6 tests in 3dmark2001, then on the 7th(Nature) it crashes. It crashes in most 3d games after a little while too(after about 1 minute). Putting back my old card, the ati7500 makes it run perfectly as usual. I have tried the following:
#1. I have tried 2 different ati9600pro's, 1 from Tyan and 1 original ATI, same thing happens
#2 I tried running a Nvidia/evga4200, same thing happens(but I get a graphics card memory error on this card).
#3 I have tried every driver released from ATI, same thing.
#4 I have tried 5-6 different via-4in-1 chipset drivers.
#5 Re-installed windows/format installing fresh driver etc to make sure no system files were corrupt.
#6 I have tried 2 different power supplies/ same thing happens(and it runs ATI9600pro with the same PSU in my 2nd computer but with a different motherboard)
#7 I tried with older bios and the newest one, same thing happens.
#8 I have tried every bios setting possible. 4x,2x,speedburst off, 64-128 agp, all cache off etc. Lowest to highest setting in the ATI-control panel etc, makes no difference.
#9 I have tried different memory settings, all the pre-sets in bios:normal, fast,faster,fastest etc.

My machine runs rock stable with the ATI7500, it has been for over a year now. I have spent over 20 hours doing nothing but fixing this problem and it is beginning to depress me greatly.
I have a 2nd machine that runs this ati-9600pro card perfectly, but on a MSI KT4V motherboard. Right now it pretty much looks like the Epox-8KHA+ does not support ATI9600+ or GF4TI4200 and above. To add to this fact is that when I install the newer via-4in-1 drivers it hard locks the computer when it is trying to install the AGP driver. Of course I have not ruled out that maybe the 1.2gig processor or my 512mb/2100 memory might be at fault, but I think it is pretty remote possibility at this point. All leads points towards AGP issue. Now before I go out and buy a new motherboard, is there anyone that has been down this road/had this problem before?

 

[Mem]

Right now it pretty much looks like the Epox-8KHA+ does not support ATI9600+ or GF4TI4200 and above.

I`m running a Sapphire 9700NP and Epox 8KHA+ combo with no problems,did you disable fastwrites in Bios and also in ATI SMARTGART?

I would try some REAL games and see how they perform ,3Dmark03 is worth trying at least it has DX9 features.

 

[Wheete]

Yes Fastwrites are disabled both in bios and in smartguard, I also tried the fasters(lowest quality settings). It crashes in all my 3d games in between 1 second to 1 minute,but it passes the DXdiags tests.

 

[Mem]

Re-installed windows/format installing fresh driver etc to make sure no system files were corrupt.

Try installing the VIA AGP driver right after OS before video drivers is installed,I can give you my settings for BIOS which are AGP at 4x,AGP size set to 128mb,disabled all video shadowing,disabled system bios cacheable,disabled video ram cacheable.My ram is 512mb PC2100 Crucial but I run it in "turbo mode" with no problems.I always leave PCI slot 1 empty(nearest to AGP slot) and you could check for IRQ conflicts.

Btw do you have DX9B installed as well?

I also have the latest BIOS for my Epox board.

 

[Wheete]

I removed the drivers and installed the latest via-4in-1 drivers, it installed without a hitch.
How ever this didnt solve my problem. Under the system manager and if I check the driver and do the diagnostics and do a memory fill test it locks the computer.

 

[AnAndAustin]

KT266A is certainly long in the tooth now but it should work fine. Are you sure everything is set to default (ie no o/c's)? Did you try a completely fresh OS install (ie not just a re-install)? The order you install the drivers can be important too, as mentioned. As also said you want to ensure the PCI slot under the gfx card is empty, maybe take out all unecessary PCI cards (and disable onboard sound, LAN etc) just to rule out clashes. It could still be a power issue, the 9600PRO doesn't come with a floppy/IDE power connector dooes it? I believe it just takes it all from the AGP slot and the mobo may not be up to this (it is VIA after all). Have you tried AGP0x (ie disable AGP rather than AGP2x, 4x etc)? You could try diff FSB speeds (drop down to 100/200FSB just to see). Be sure to install all OS SPacks and Win Update features (I've heard even the .net framework is rumoured to help). Some people suggest avoiding avoiding the VIA Hyperion (mobo) drivers altogether, or at least the AGP part. Try mixing in the v4.38 drivers (even just the AGP2.0 driver instead of the newer AGP3.0). These aren't just random guesses but were common solutions for the clash between ATI AGP8x cards and the first AGP8x mobos by VIA (KT400). HTH!

 

[Wheete]

No, the 9600 does not come with the ide/floppy power connector, that is one of the reasons I bought it, 9500/9700 that uses this gets so hot you can fry an egg on them.
I spent all of yesterday trying everything I could, I tried with a 3rd power supply, it didnt make a difference. I had a similar problem on a old Epox motherbaord with a GF4200, the motherboard didnt give the agp bus enough power, it kinda had the same symptoms(runs in 2D, crashes in 3D) Yes I have formatted and re-installed windows, used the reference via-4in-1, installed 4-5 different versions, its not software/driver related, that is something I can rule out, I can also rule out powersupply now(because my 2nd computer runs the same card on the same powersupply but on a different motherboard) I tried the 0x,2x,4x thing too already, it just made it worse. The 8KHA+ runs my older ATI7500 solid as a rock, 100% stable. I have also tested my RAM, no problems there, so it pretty much boils down to motherboard or processor. And my guess is that the motherboard does not supply enough power to the AGP slot like you said.

 

[Mem]

The 8KHA+ runs my older ATI7500 solid as a rock, 100% stable. I have also tested my RAM, no problems there, so it pretty much boils down to motherboard or processor. And my guess is that the motherboard does not supply enough power to the AGP slot like you said.

On the the Epox 8KHA+ it displays your AGP voltage on bootup,mine displays onscreen 1.53 volts,also do you`ve the latest BIOS installed,the only other thing I can think of is cooling,is your case temp at normal temp which is around 30c-35c ,check cpu temp as well,a hot case can cause heat problems with video cards etc.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Wheete yeah I didn't think the 9600 series used the extra power supply. My point (as I'm sure you know and suspected yourself) was that not having it places all the power demands on the AGP slot, almost certainly the problem. Not that I'd say it's ATI's fault, the card is likely to be near the spec's limits, I'd put the blame squarely on VIA (once again). You may need to look at replacing the gfx card or mobo whichever you prefer.

BTW The Rad9500, 9500PRO & 9700 all run as cool as the 9600PRO, only the higher clocked 0.15mu 9700PRO and up run any hotter. Still heat isn't likely to be the issue, as you would be able to run a fair deal of 3D directly after a cold power on ... and then crash every time once things get a chance to warm up. As Mem suggests you may be able to alleviate the problem by upping the AGP voltage (mobo permitting) or even upping the AGP Driving value. Obviously be VERY careful with these as both can easily fry your card and mobo ... and void your warranty(s).

 

[Mem]

You can`t up the AGP voltage on the Epox 8KHA+,I wouldn`t blame VIA for this problem that`s the easy route,I`ve had a Geforce card in my Epox 8KHA+ and it worked fine,as you know my 9700NP is also working fine in my Epox 8KHA+ board.


You tried minimal install of hardware and reset the BIOS,see if that does anything?

It might be worth playing with the memory and CPU voltage.

 

[Wheete]

Yeah I am almost 100% sure its the motherboard. It doesnt want to run a evga-gf4ti4200 either. I have had loads of power problems with Epox motherboards before, 1st Epox was the printer/5 volt problem. The next motherboard I had to buy 5 different PSUs to make it run. And now this agp voltage problem. Its not related to the powersupply, it more looks like the motherboard not supplying the right voltages. I have looked at the agp driver value unfortunatly I dont understand the values its like 3ffff-5eee.

 

[Mem]

Could be your board has some sort of fault,remember the Epox 8KHA+ was probably the best KT266A board in its time.

 

[Wheete]

Well I found the answer and just wanted to share it with you Epox 8KHA+ owners. This is what Epox says about my issue..

"The 8KHA+'s AGP slot is 3.3v/1.5v, but newer cards have problems with the frequency signaling. If it works, it works - if it doesn't, it doesn't."

Just let you know that if you have this mobo and plan on upgrading to a ATI9600/9800, you might get into problems, the older cards like 9500/9700 might work better though.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Well the GF (which one?) were all pretty demanding, but the 9600PRO is IMHO a little higher (or handles things a little worse) and hence probably more borderline. ATI decided to rely on the mobo's AGP slot to supply the necessary power for the 9600PRO. This would explain why a 9700 would work in there since it gets plenty of power from the PSU via a floppy power connector. Whose fault, a little ATI for omitting the power connector (mostly costs?) and plenty to VIA/Epox for an AGP slot that doesn't quite meet spec.

Of course it could also be that particular Epox 8KHA+ has a slight problem, or Epox were telling the truth with the 8KHA+ signalling defficiency (clearly Epox's fault). I'd say it's the power theory above myself though. If you do want to pursue the AGP Driving BIOS setting then understand HEX. The Driving Value is usually referred to as 2 digits (eg 89, 8A etc). Hex works by each digit having a value in order (counting up) 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F. When you reach F you add 1 to the first column then reset the second digit back to 0. So ... D, E, F, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 19, 1A, 1B, 1C ... (note it's not ten but 10hex). SO all you really need to know is that a change of 1 up in the second column is small but a change of 1 up in the first comlumn is very large ... also note 19 to 20 is also a big jump (1A is next in the sequence). So if the default value is 'DA' then an increase to 'DB' or 'DC' SHOULD be fine (no guarantee). I'm VERY sure AGP Driving boosts the signalling strength so it should help you if the Epox guys were truthful (not that I think they'd lie but they might fob you off). If you procede I suggest you read up as much as possible on it first ... it is YOUR own risk and do consider the merits of returning/selling the 9600PRO/Epox and getting something else (gfx or mobo) instead.