Attention AT Car guys

[rpc64]

I know there are some knowledgeable car people around here so I figured I would throw this out.

The car is a 2004 Mazda3s

One day last week I found it suddenly having trouble starting up. It cranks, but it either takes a really long time (10+ seconds) or 2-3 separate tries in order to get it started up.

First thing I did was replace the battery. No change, the problem is still there. I took it in to my dealership yesterday. They said it looks like there is a short and there is an extra draw on the battery, and they thought it had something to do with the amp I have hooked up in the car. They wanted $108 to diagnose it so I said no I'll take it home and see what I can find out first. So I took it back home and completely disconnected my amp. The problem is still there. I don't know much about cars and so I'm not sure if there are any other common things that would cause an extra draw on the battery?

Any ideas would be very much appreciated.

 

[FreshCrabLegs]

The Garage

 

[mrrman]

faulty alternator or starter possibly

 

[rpc64]

Oops, sorry I forgot we have a new car forum

 

[CrackRabbit]

If it is cranking at full speed I doubt there is a problem with your battery or alternator.
My guess would be a plugged fuel filter.
Is the car running rough when you do get it started?
Also how many miles on it?

 

[rpc64]

Yes it cranks at full speed and once it does start up it runs perfectly fine.

Mileage is at about 43k.

 

[Gibson486]

They want money from you too? Man, I would think tha stuff like thsi owuld be under warrenty. I can't believe thay charge to look at it. I just bought my mazda 2 months. They wanted to charge me $100 a month after I bought it to look at why the gas mileage sucked. I have never seen anything like it. Toyota and Dodge never charged my parents just to look at a car, but i gues stimes have changed.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

spark plugs possibly? when was the last time you changed those? spark plug wires? dirty injectors? could be any of those things. is it distributor or coil ignition system?

 

[Wolfie]

I would look at the fuel delivery system on this car. Have you had a pressure test done? Does it build pressure when the key is turned on? Is there pressure right after you shut it down or does it leak down? Does this only happen if it's been sitting a while or all the time?

 

[cardiac]

Originally posted by: Wolfie
I would look at the fuel delivery system on this car. Have you had a pressure test done? Does it build pressure when the key is turned on? Is there pressure right after you shut it down or does it leak down? Does this only happen if it's been sitting a while or all the time?

I believe Wolfie is on the right track. If the starter is cranking the engine over at the normal rate, the battery and alternator should be good. It sounds like a fuel problem. If the injectors were dirty, it would most likely run rough all the time, and may even generate a "check engine light" (CEL). Do you get a CEL? If not, then it is starting to look like a fuel pump weakness or regulator.

Try turning the key on but don't crank the engine. Leave the key on 30-45 seconds before you try to crank it. Does it start right up then?

Bob

 

[rpc64]

Originally posted by: cardiac

Originally posted by: Wolfie
I would look at the fuel delivery system on this car. Have you had a pressure test done? Does it build pressure when the key is turned on? Is there pressure right after you shut it down or does it leak down? Does this only happen if it's been sitting a while or all the time?

I believe Wolfie is on the right track. If the starter is cranking the engine over at the normal rate, the battery and alternator should be good. It sounds like a fuel problem. If the injectors were dirty, it would most likely run rough all the time, and may even generate a "check engine light" (CEL). Do you get a CEL? If not, then it is starting to look like a fuel pump weakness or regulator.

Try turning the key on but don't crank the engine. Leave the key on 30-45 seconds before you try to crank it. Does it start right up then?

Bob

I am not getting a CEL. Also, how is this for something strange: Just today I notice that the car is now starting up a lot easier, although still not as quick as before. It will start right up now, but takes maybe a fraction of a second longer to crank than normal. This is ~2 days after disconnecting my amp, which is the only thing I have done.

I will try the thing with turning the key on.

Gibson486: I assumed that they were only charging me because they were trying to blame the problem on my aftermarket amp install. But who knows. The car is definitely still under warranty.

 

[cardiac]

RPC64, if that amp is drawing a tremendous amount of power, the ignition system might have a low voltage/amperage situation and not have enough juice to fire it off right away......

Bob

 

[Wolfie]

ahhhh ha! I bet that amp has a large capacitor that is getting built up while you are tring to start your car. Watch how you hook up the amp. Make sure you hook it up to the ign side so it doesn't try to charge the cap while you are tring to start the engine. Sometimes your amprage will be too low to fire the injectors or run the computer correctly. But, I would also make sure that you are not "backfeeding" power to the pump and causing a low pressure problem. I would still make sure the pressure is good to rule that out. Rule one side or the other (fuel & ign) and it makes it a little easier to diag....

 

[exdeath]

Probably not a fuel problem if it runs and accelerates fine once its finally stated.

Probably not an electrical problem if it's got enough juice to spin the starter full speed.

Does it start easier when it's warm and take longer to start when it's cold? Could be related to temperature sensor.

 

[rpc64]

Well maybe the problem is the amp. But I've had it for like 2-3 years and never had a problem with it. And why would my problem still be present for 2 days after disconnecting the amp and then suddenly go away? The car seems to be starting fine every time now.

Maybe there is a way I can test the amp to see if there is something wrong with it? In order to get my fuel system checked I would have to go back in to the dealer...

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Gibson486
They want money from you too? Man, I would think tha stuff like thsi owuld be under warrenty. I can't believe thay charge to look at it. I just bought my mazda 2 months. They wanted to charge me $100 a month after I bought it to look at why the gas mileage sucked. I have never seen anything like it. Toyota and Dodge never charged my parents just to look at a car, but i gues stimes have changed.

You just have to go over their heads. Fire off an angry letter+phone call storm (with the details + what you want done to fix the situation) to the district manager or Mazda US HQ. Tell them that your dealer is very rude, unhelpful, and that they flat lied to you when you bought the car (they usually tell you that you can bring your car back in if you run into *any* trouble that you don't cause yourself with bolt-ons/mods, or accidents).

I'd be willing to bet you'd get some kind of result. My brother's Range Rover HSE had brake failure a few months off the lot, and the dealer first charged him almost $2000 to fix it, and after yelling at some people, he got a full refund + $1,000 service rebate for future maintenance.

 

[db]

Make sure both ends of each spark plug wire has a good connection. Push it toward its mating component to make sure there is no gap between the unseen contacts.
If that doesn't help, remove the spark plugs to determine condition. If you don't know how to read the condition of a plug, google it.

re the dealer, if you just want them to tell you what's wrong, they will charge you a diagnostic fee. If you bring it in a few days after disconnecting the amp (for warranty repair) then I don't know how they can say it's the result of the amp (unless the amp *wiring* is fubarred--then you pay). If they say it's a result of the amp or after-market wiring, make them show you and prove it. They may say an electronic component hasn't received enough volts or amps and is damaged as result of your amp sucking too much power--this can't be proven or disproved. Dealers are expert liars, so be careful. Dealer repair = $$$$

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: rpc64
Yes it cranks at full speed and once it does start up it runs perfectly fine.

Mileage is at about 43k.

There are two components to starting your car: the electrical system (starter, battery) and the fuel system (pump, filter). However, if it's cranking normally and not starting, then that indicates a fuel problem of some sort. Your engine is basically not getting the gas it needs to fire up. Generically, this implies that sufficient fuel line pressure isn't being supplied to the injectors. This can indicate a clogged filter, bad fuel injector(s), bad fuel pump, or a few other things. I had a similar problem this week and it was the relay controlling the fuel pump.