backup best practices

[Vegasus]

I want to get an external hard drive to backup my PC. I've heard it's best to do more than one backup. I've heard one suggestion to get an external drive with double the capacity of the internal drive so it can, for example, store both a one week old and two week old image of the internal drive. I've heard another recommendation to get two external drives for backup in case one goes bad during the backup process. Cloud backup sounds interesting but my internet connection is way too slow for that, unfortunately. Can a backup be done incrementally, as the PC is used normally, or do you have to stop everything you're doing for the backup to happen?

What are the differences between a small, laptop-oriented hard drive like WD Passport and a big, desktop oriented hard drive like MyBook? Does the MyBook's ventilation let it run longer without overheating? How about backup software? Do any drives come with good software or is it best to buy that separately? Or is software that comes with OS good enough (I have Windows 10)? Does it cost more for backup software that restores the whole system than software that only backs up certain folders?

What's a good way to schedule backups on a bedroom PC? I use my PC at kind of random times during the day and I don't want it running when I'm trying to sleep, but I'm away at work a lot. I also work different days and hours each week. Can I put in a different backup time each week?

Finally, down the road, I want to replace my HDD with an SSD. After doing so, can the backups continue as always or will the backup saftware have to be informed somehow that it's backing up a different drive than it was before?

I know these are an awful lot of questions, but I've had them in the back of my mind for years and now I'm getting close to buying a lot of extra components for my PC and I want to get into the habit of doing proper backups regularly.

 

[Elixer]

All important data must be on multiple devices, that is the safest way to have backups.
That said, some external units offer encryption, and if the external unit dies, you can NOT transfer the HD/SSD to another unit and get your data back.

There is no real difference as far as the backup software is concerned between SSD or HD, slight difference on restore (making sure SSD is aligned, and all that stuff).
The best backup plan is to backup when you can, there are some that allow scheduling which it sounds like is what you are looking for.

Cloud backup software do provide incremental backups as well, but, I wouldn't suggest putting everything there, as you said, it would be way too slow for both backups, and restore. I would only stick important files there (using encrypted rar / 7z files.)

 

[BSim500]

I want to get an external hard drive to backup my PC. I've heard it's best to do more than one backup. I've heard one suggestion to get an external drive with double the capacity of the internal drive so it can, for example, store both a one week old and two week old image of the internal drive. I've heard another recommendation to get two external drives for backup in case one goes bad during the backup process.

- Staggering backups / images can better safeguard against ransomware (eg, if something encrypted your data 2 days ago but you backed up yesterday without realising, you should still have one unaffected older copy.

- Hardware redundancy is critical as HDD's (and SSD's) can fail suddenly. Forget about two copies on one over-sized drive. Using two different drives should be regarded as bare minimum, and ideally a third set stored not in the immediate vicinity as the first two just as insurance against fire / theft. Personally, I have 3x external's (two regular A>B>A>B with drive C as an off-site long term storage). USB sticks and BD-RE can act as extra backup copies of critical / irreplaceable data.

- If your Internet is too slow for cloud storage but you still want an off-site copy, buying a small portable 2.5" 2TB drive for the most important stuff and keeping it with a close relative / friend is a simple substitute.

- I've seen no real difference in reliability in 2.5" vs 3.5" drive sizes. It's all down to capacity (3.5") vs portability (2.5").

- As Elixer said, it's important to be aware when buying external drives that some of them do use hardware encryption. For those drives, if the controller dies, you can't just take the drive out the enclosure and put it into an internal SATA port.

- Backup drives will see zero difference in backing up from a HDD or SSD.

- NAS (Networked Attached Storage) is increasingly popular, but if you go that route you'll still need an extra offline dataset elsewhere to call it a real backup solution. Imagine building a super-redundant 4-bay NAS with data mirrored on all 4 drives. Someone breaks in and simply steals the NAS box or a power surge fries all 4 drive controller's whilst they're all online together (happened to someone I know who had an indirect lightning strike). Where would the 5th data set come from to restore from? Serious redundancy comes just as much from stuff not being plugged in at the same time vs number of online mirrors in a single box.

- Using software like TeraCopy (free) can eliminate any bad copies / silent errors to / from external USB drives by performing automatic CRC compare after each copy.

 

[Vegasus]

Thank you both for the info on hardware and practices! What backup software you recommend for Windows 10?

 

[nerp]

I recommend not only backing up to an external drive, but duplicating that drive with an identical drive AND paying for something like carbonite. $50/year for all that to be in the cloud is piece of mind. People have gone on vacation only to come home to a burnt down house. The only way to really promise data security is offsite backup.

 

[corkyg]

I recommend not only backing up to an external drive, but duplicating that drive with an identical drive AND paying for something like carbonite. $50/year for all that to be in the cloud is piece of mind. People have gone on vacation only to come home to a burnt down house. The only way to really promise data security is offsite backup.

Amen to that! When I go on vacation or trips, my laptop goes with me along with a copy of my data drive.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

A few observations;

- Staggering backups / images can better safeguard against ransomware (eg, if something encrypted your data 2 days ago but you backed up yesterday without realising, you should still have one unaffected older copy.

Agreed. Also remember to do full backups incrementally. Otherwise you might get stuck with a non-functioning incremental backup.

- Hardware redundancy is critical as HDD's (and SSD's) can fail suddenly. Forget about two copies on one over-sized drive. Using two different drives should be regarded as bare minimum, and ideally a third set stored not in the immediate vicinity as the first two just as insurance against fire / theft. Personally, I have 3x external's (two regular A>B>A>B with drive C as an off-site long term storage). USB sticks and BD-RE can act as extra backup copies of critical / irreplaceable data.

Mirrored drives (RAID1) work wonders for guarding against drive failure. But be aware mirrored drives do not protect against anything else. (f.x. data corruption, malware etc.)

- If your Internet is too slow for cloud storage but you still want an off-site copy, buying a small portable 2.5" 2TB drive for the most important stuff and keeping it with a close relative / friend is a simple substitute.

Make sure your friend/relative is trustworthy, so you don't suddenly find all your private stuff posted all over facebook...

Encryption can help, but make sure you got the keys for it.

I'd also not trust a USB pen drive longer then I can throw it. Especially for long term storage. If you need super long retention time, optical media is still the way to go. But that's a whole other discussion, as there are plenty of pitfalls with those also.

- I've seen no real difference in reliability in 2.5" vs 3.5" drive sizes. It's all down to capacity (3.5") vs portability (2.5").

2.5" drives don't require 12V so they can be completely bus powered. So you don't have an additional wall-wort to keep track of. 2.5" drive capacity tops out at 2TB however, so if you need large capacities 3.5" drives can be the only option.

- As Elixer said, it's important to be aware when buying external drives that some of them do use hardware encryption. For those drives, if the controller dies, you can't just take the drive out the enclosure and put it into an internal SATA port.

Yup. Encryption cuts both ways. One does not want to be accidentally locked out from ones own data.

- Backup drives will see zero difference in backing up from a HDD or SSD.

Except for transfer speed. SSDs far outstrip HDDs in sequential R/W operation. If you need to back something up quickly this is a major advantage. Of course the transfer rate will always depend on the source drive, so YMMV.

- NAS (Networked Attached Storage) is increasingly popular, but if you go that route you'll still need an extra offline dataset elsewhere to call it a real backup solution. Imagine building a super-redundant 4-bay NAS with data mirrored on all 4 drives. Someone breaks in and simply steals the NAS box or a power surge fries all 4 drive controller's whilst they're all online together (happened to someone I know who had an indirect lightning strike). Where would the 5th data set come from to restore from? Serious redundancy comes just as much from stuff not being plugged in at the same time vs number of online mirrors in a single box.

If you choose to go with a NAS, also make sure you know the data recovery procedure for the NAS, and more importantly, have tried it. You do not want to have a failed NAS with critical data on it, and then have to experiment with how to get the data off the drives.

Believe me. I've tried it. Not much fun there.

- Using software like TeraCopy (free) can eliminate any bad copies / silent errors to / from external USB drives by performing automatic CRC compare after each copy.

This very much. Having good data on your backup drives is critical.

 

[ronbo613]

I backup to multiple locations; internal hard drives, NAS, external drives. How extensive your backups are depends on how valuable your data is to you.

 

[Vegasus]

Also remember to do full backups incrementally. Otherwise you might get stuck with a non-functioning incremental backup.

Do you mean incremental backup should not be used to just backup some folders? Or do you mean a full backup should only be done incrementally? Also, what software do you recommend to do this?

Encryption cuts both ways. One does not want to be accidentally locked out from ones own data.

What if I made one backup drive unencrypted and the other encrypted, and the encrypted one is the one I take on trips and/or keep off site?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Do you mean incremental backup should not be used to just backup some folders? Or do you mean a full backup should only be done incrementally? Also, what software do you recommend to do this?

Well, perhaps that was poorly worded on my part. I'll see if I can explain it better.

With "incremental" backups, you only copy changed files/folders onto a baseline image. "Full" backups refer to either that baseline image or a full disk image.

If for some reason that baseline image get corrupted or infested with malware, your incremental backups are useless along with the baseline. Hence the need to occasionally do a new baseline image, or a full-on disk image. How often depends on temperament, and how valuable the data is. You can always combine this with other forms of protection.

If you want to keep things as simple as possible, Windows own backup utility does a pretty good job. For disk images, Macrium Reflect is free for personal use and very decent.

My own strategy is firstly having "hot" in use data on mirrored drives. Finished data get put on both a an external large capacity drive (again with mirrored drives) and a custom built ZFS "NAS of sorts" for more permanent archiving. The NAS get powered down and unplugged when not actually in use, to protect it against power surges, lightning strikes and other electrical phenomenon. From the NAS, the most important irreplaceable data then gets put on a secondary external disk that gets deposited in a safe location. Additional cold data protection is provided by BD-R(E) disks, with RAR archives that have recovery records.

And before you ask, yes, I'm paranoid about my data...

What if I made one backup drive unencrypted and the other encrypted, and the encrypted one is the one I take on trips and/or keep off site?

That'd work. Its all about mixing and matching to suit your needs.

 

[Vegasus]

If for some reason that baseline image get corrupted or infested with malware, your incremental backups are useless along with the baseline. Hence the need to occasionally do a new baseline image, or a full-on disk image. How often depends on temperament, and how valuable the data is. You can always combine this with other forms of protection.

For that to happen, wouldn't the original drive have to be corrupted as well? Or are there cases when a backup gets corrupted but the original is still good?

If you want to keep things as simple as possible, Windows own backup utility does a pretty good job. For disk images, Macrium Reflect is free for personal use and very decent.

I just read up a bit on those:

How big can differential backups get? I was thinking of getting an external drive that's the same size as the internal drive, but it sounds like if the baseline image gets close to the size of the drive there won't be enough space for the differential. I guess it depends how often and how much I change stuff, right?

How long does it take to do a baseline backup? My internal drive is a 3.5 inch 7200 RPM 1 TB, and the external would be an external USB 3.0 2.5 inch drive, probably also 1 TB but maybe 2 TB. I was thinking of doing some sort of backup weekly.

That'd work. Its all about mixing and matching to suit your needs.

Does an encrypted backup take more work or time to create or restore from?

One other thought: Is it possible to backup by keeping an external drive always connected to the PC so it is constantly updating and stays current with the internal drive? If possible, is it advisable?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

For that to happen, wouldn't the original drive have to be corrupted as well? Or are there cases when a backup gets corrupted but the original is still good?

Not necessarily. A lot happens under the hood when you copy data from drive to drive*. HDDs have their own protections from R/W errors, but there are cases where that isn't enough. This is known as the uncorrectable error rate. Of course there are techniques to combat this, but we're moving into some pretty exotic stuff, which would be overkill (and perhaps too expensive) for private use.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive#ERRORRATESHANDLING

Another keyword here is silent data corruption. Wikipedia has a pretty good write-up on the subject, without getting too technical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_corruption

I just read up a bit on those:

How big can differential backups get? I was thinking of getting an external drive that's the same size as the internal drive, but it sounds like if the baseline image gets close to the size of the drive there won't be enough space for the differential. I guess it depends how often and how much I change stuff, right?

How long does it take to do a baseline backup? My internal drive is a 3.5 inch 7200 RPM 1 TB, and the external would be an external USB 3.0 2.5 inch drive, probably also 1 TB but maybe 2 TB. I was thinking of doing some sort of backup weekly.

Potentially the same size as what's being backup'ed (1:1). But most software uses some sort of transparent compression, to keep size down.

If you use windows own Backup and Restore, you can set it up to only backup your personal files. It can also do a full system image, that is essentially a snap-shot of your drive. But I prefer Macrium Reflect for system imaging.

It's really a question of what your backup goal is. If it's just for ensuring access to your important files, doing full system images might be a bit over the top. If on the other hand, your goal is having your PC up and in running condition, system images are a great tool.

Does an encrypted backup take more work or time to create or restore from?

Depends on whether it's hardware or software encryption. Hardware is completely transparent, software will always have some overhead.

One other thought: Is it possible to backup by keeping an external drive always connected to the PC so it is constantly updating and stays current with the internal drive? If possible, is it advisable?

If you take the proper precautions, and are aware of the limitations, yes, it's perfectly legitimate.

 

[drbrock]

Anyone have suggestions on disk image backup site? I want to backup my business computer. It only has a 250GB harddrive so not a crazy amount of data. Just want to make sure I have an offsite backup of an image so I can throw another harddrive in when my SSD finally crashes and return to business as normal quickly.

idrive seems to have good reviews but they limit it to 1TB. I would like at least a few backups just in case one is corrupted. Looking to backup once a week. I backup to a personal harddrive as well but if someone breaks into the office and cleans me out I would be screwed. I don't think raid 1 would help me much. Maybe I am wrong on that.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Anyone have suggestions on disk image backup site? I want to backup my business computer. It only has a 250GB harddrive so not a crazy amount of data. Just want to make sure I have an offsite backup of an image so I can throw another harddrive in when my SSD finally crashes and return to business as normal quickly.

If you use Reflect or other imaging software, any online storage service will do. It doesn't even have to be specialized.

Reflect can make a bootable USB drive you can use to replace the image quickly. All you really need is internet access to retrieve the image, and something to store it on.

I would like at least a few backups just in case one is corrupted. Looking to backup once a week. I backup to a personal harddrive as well but if someone breaks into the office and cleans me out I would be screwed. I don't think raid 1 would help me much. Maybe I am wrong on that.

You're correct in that. RAID1 only protects against disk failure. Certainly not against breaking and entering...

A cheap and effective measure is getting a large capacity pen-drive, then copy your most valuable data to take home with you.

 

[Concerned Citizen]

er.I just copied my OS from a 70GB drive to a 128 one today.
My advice is imaging.Either Acronis or the older Hiren's.
It works.
I have not installed Windows in 3 years.

Ugly racist threadcrap removed.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[John Connor]

Cloned to external drive kept in fireproof/waterproof safe.

Amazon S3 and Dreamobjects.

Use Boxcryptor for everything else.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

All day now, I wanted to find the thread in which I'd discussed backup software to use for "File and Folder" uncompressed backups for a Windows Server (either 2008R2/WHS-2011 or 2012 R2 Essentials, which will replace the WHS).

And I wanted to thank someone for steering me to SyncBackFree. RichCopy now doesn't work on my WHS. But I'll have to buy SyncBackFree. Only the Win desktop OS's are compatible with the free version.

All the other advice given before me seems "right on" and I can't add to it much. there must be quite a number of ways to keep important backups and make them. WHS backs up all my workstations in their entirety to Stablebit duplicated folders. Primarily that option is most valuable for bare-metal restoration of any workstation. I'm still keeping important things on the server that aren't on the workstations. The SErver boot disk is backed up every night. I just want a backup from the server that isn't an "image" and can be immediately accessed by whatever I plug it into.

As for the Cloud -- I'm still in a fog -- not too eager to put my "stuff" -- "out there, somewhere."

 

[grimpr]

The best commercial file/folder sync/backup program imho is Syncovery, well worth the money.

 

[Vegasus]

It's been a while, but I bought a HGST Touro external HD, downloaded Macrium Reflect free, created a rescue USB and DVD, did my first backup and first restore!

Macrium's knowledge base says I can create a Windows PE for recovery on my hard drive so I don't need to use the USB or DVD to restore. However, my hard drive already has a 500 MB partition that Windows 10 Computer Management calls "Healthy (Recovery Partition)" and Macrium calls "Windows RE tools (None)". Wikipedia says Windows RE is related to Windows PE, so can I use that to do the restoration? If not, could I create another partition and install Windows PE on it?

Also, I enjoy how when I boot my PC it doesn't require me to do anything before it goes to the Windows desktop. Macrium says if I install Windows PE then each time I turn on my PC I have to tell it which OS to boot. Is there a way to tell the PC to boot Windows PE when shutting down Windows 10 rather than when booting? Finally, are all these questions moot considering I already have a rescue USB?

I'm going to buy my second external backup drive soon. I bought the HGST Touro before I knew it's generally considered the most reliable brand and I was happy to later learn that's what it is. But how important is reliability for a drive that is going to be disconnected and idle most of the time with brief moments of backups and restores? All the reliability reports I read come from either datacenters or PCs that give their drives long workouts. I also have been reading that the various brands have been generally improving over time, with Seagate in particular closing much of their gap with HGST lately.