Baseball just ain’t the same no more!

[Ayrahvon]

It's likely the strategy you saw Milwaukee use in the playoffs (and by Tampa Bay, and several other teams in the season) will become far more common.

Be rid of your preconceived notions of starter/closer, they are no more. There are only pitchers that you choose to play at different leverage situations. As long as the pitchers on the team can come to grips with the strategy, you're going to get your best pitchers pitching at the most important parts of the game. You'll be pitching fewer innings per pitcher, and saving your team the penalty of 3rd time through the order.

Of course I'm of the opinion that we should be rid of the playoffs and have a fall classic instead. 7 Games is not a large enough sample. Milwaukee was the 'best team' in the NL this year, Red Sox the AL. Let them win their respective leagues and make the playoffs a tournament for a big shiny trophy.

I for one welcome our data analytic baseball overlords.

 

[BUTCH1]

We need head hunters and trash talking in the world series. They need enforcers in the bullpen like in the past. You can't have home run derby without bean ball.

LOL, like the old days of Pedro Martinez?, not only does he throw at Garcia's head, he then proceeds to point at his own head as in 'I'm coming after you". Oh, then during a huge fight an inning later 72yr old Don Zimmer charges Pedro and gets tossed onto the turf, ah, the good old days!,

 

[RLGL]

Yeah, I know, it is like paint getting hard. A total wast of time!!! Includes the WS

 

[BUTCH1]

Yeah, I know, it is like paint getting hard. A total wast of time!!! Includes the WS

You just don't understand baseball and cannot grasp the nuances of the game and how it's played. For me, seeing Sox left fielder Benitini take that huge gamble to catch a line shot off Bergman's bat was pure amazement. if he makes the difficult catch Sox win, (he did), if he fails the ball goes to the fence and 3 runs score, game over.

 

[darkswordsman17]

You just don't understand baseball and cannot grasp the nuances of the game and how it's played. For me, seeing Sox left fielder Benitini take that huge gamble to catch a line shot off Bergman's bat was pure amazement. if he makes the difficult catch Sox win, (he did), if he fails the ball goes to the fence and 3 runs score, game over.

Cool, cool. The thing is, I can watch a 30 second highlight that shows the amazing play and skip wasting 4 hours watching guys adjust their hats, gloves, dicks, chewing tobacco, pine tar, etc, etc, etc.

That the most interesting thing about baseball has become advanced statistics is pretty telling.

 

[Thebobo]

Well...if I was a Mets (or Jests) fan, I'd quit watching too...

My brother for my birthday took me to one of the Miracle Mets 1969 world series games at Shea stadium. Being 11 at the time I don't remember much other then yelling Let's go Mets! We moved a year later and I became a senators Fan and then they left DC lol.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

My brother for my birthday took me to one of the Miracle Mets 1969 world series games at Shea stadium. Being 11 at the time I don't remember much other then yelling Let's go Mets! We moved a year later and I became a senators Fan and then they left DC lol.

The Senators moving out of town was a good thing. Better no baseball at all than that level of baseball.

 

[paperfist]

Cool, cool. The thing is, I can watch a 30 second highlight that shows the amazing play and skip wasting 4 hours watching guys adjust their hats, gloves, dicks, chewing tobacco, pine tar, etc, etc, etc.

That the most interesting thing about baseball has become advanced statistics is pretty telling.

You’re just watching the climax. The exciting part is the build up to that.

Though on most teams strategy and the manager are going out the window.

 

[BUTCH1]

Cool, cool. The thing is, I can watch a 30 second highlight that shows the amazing play and skip wasting 4 hours watching guys adjust their hats, gloves, dicks, chewing tobacco, pine tar, etc, etc, etc.

That the most interesting thing about baseball has become advanced statistics is pretty telling.

But by that logic one could watch a "condensed" version on you-tube of any NFL game and skip over all the 2-3yrd runs. Thing is, those 2-3yrd runs play a part in possibly weaking a defenders will to stop it, just as watching the bases slowly fill builds up the drama of that final at bat. I have to admit that playoff baseball dos have too many time outs, I think they need to make a second timer to get and STAY in the box, same for the pitcher, a timer to step on the rubber and throw it.

 

[Homerboy]

You’re just watching the climax. The exciting part is the build up to that.

Though on most teams strategy and the manager are going out the window.

You literally started the thread complaining about taking a starter out in the 3rd. Most teams are using MORE strategy than every before.

Games used to be "you're our pitcher today. Short of your arm literally falling off, you're going all 9 innings"
Then they went to "you're our starting pitcher today. You're going 7-8 innings, then we'll bring in a relief pitcher"
Then they went to "you're our starting pitcher today. You're going 5-7 innings, then we'll bring in a middle reliever, then a set-up pitcher, then a closer"
Now they are going to "you're our opener. You may go 1 inning... or 9. We'll fill in the rest"

Not to mention more and more defensive shifts.

They entire game (except for the stupid AL with a DH) is more and more strategy every generation.

Though I will concede that offensive strategy is going away. It's HRs or bust now, but that may once again change as this new pitching becomes more popular and teams will be scraping for a 1-2 runs a game (in theory)

 

[paperfist]

You literally started the thread complaining about taking a starter out in the 3rd. Most teams are using MORE strategy than every before.

Games used to be "you're our pitcher today. Short of your arm literally falling off, you're going all 9 innings"
Then they went to "you're our starting pitcher today. You're going 7-8 innings, then we'll bring in a relief pitcher"
Then they went to "you're our starting pitcher today. You're going 5-7 innings, then we'll bring in a middle reliever, then a set-up pitcher, then a closer"
Now they are going to "you're our opener. You may go 1 inning... or 9. We'll fill in the rest"

Not to mention more and more defensive shifts.

They entire game (except for the stupid AL with a DH) is more and more strategy every generation.

Though I will concede that offensive strategy is going away. It's HRs or bust now, but that may once again change as this new pitching becomes more popular and teams will be scraping for a 1-2 runs a game (in theory)

More shocked them complaint that the pitcher is getting pulled so early.

I see what your saying, but it doesn’t feel like strategy to me because these are predetermined analytics that say don’t let the hitters see your pitcher 3x in a game as their ERA goes up.

You saw guys like Hader wiping the Dodgers out and then they just pulled him.

I’ll say this, Cora seems to not be entirely following these rules.

The shift is the same way, it’s like we’re watching a computer sim. I meant old school strategy by the guy managing.

 

[Homerboy]

More shocked them complaint that the pitcher is getting pulled so early.

I see what your saying, but it doesn’t feel like strategy to me because these are predetermined analytics that say don’t let the hitters see your pitcher 3x in a game as their ERA goes up.

You saw guys like Hader wiping the Dodgers out and then they just pulled him.

I’ll say this, Cora seems to not be entirely following these rules.

The shift is the same way, it’s like we’re watching a computer sim. I meant old school strategy by the guy managing.

"Old school strategy" was nothing but "going by your guts" and "I have a feeling". Why would anyone do that when you have facts that can direct you. Would you want your doctor to say "I don't think you have cancer" or would you want him to use data to actually determine it.

Managing the facts and figures and data is managing the game. If they want to put an extreme shift on, then guys should be bunting against it. Swallow your pride and do it. Carpenter has done it a few times that I've seen for the Cardinals, and it works. Do it enough, and the shift will disappear.

Hader mows down hitters EVERY time he's in the mound (Brewer fan here). By your point, he should never be pulled. Problem is you want to use him as often as you can if if you over use him, you can't use him tomorrow or for 3+ days. He was used more often, and for more innings, and for more pitches in the post season than he was all season. You can't throw like that for 9 innings. Not to mention, as you pointed out, see him more and more times, the hitters will figure it out. Hitters are GOOD and getting BETTER - at a faster rate than pitchers are so pitchers/managers have to adjust too.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

You’re just watching the climax. The exciting part is the build up to that.

No. Nothing that happens in baseball is nearly exciting enough to sit through three+ hours of guys scratching their balls. If we wanted a sport where you have to watch nothing happening for hours only to see one decent play we'd care about soccer. AND WE DON'T

 

[BUTCH1]

No. Nothing that happens in baseball is nearly exciting enough to sit through three+ hours of guys scratching their balls. If we wanted a sport where you have to watch nothing happening for hours only to see one decent play we'd care about soccer. AND WE DON'T

Well you're certainly entitled to that opinion and I do see your point, what I think you might be missing is baseball is a game of decisions, do I take the next pitch or give it a mighty hack?, do I try and bust him inside or rip off a curve for a possible K?, do I charge this line drive or let it drop to get it back into the infield ASAP?. in a world series all of these have consequences that will affect the outcome, sort of like moves in a game of chess.

 

[BUTCH1]

More shocked them complaint that the pitcher is getting pulled so early.

I see what your saying, but it doesn’t feel like strategy to me because these are predetermined analytics that say don’t let the hitters see your pitcher 3x in a game as their ERA goes up.

You saw guys like Hader wiping the Dodgers out and then they just pulled him.

I’ll say this, Cora seems to not be entirely following these rules.

The shift is the same way, it’s like we’re watching a computer sim. I meant old school strategy by the guy managing.

I didn't like Cora bringing out Eovaldi to pitch the 8th inning last game, the Sox bullpen has been very solid this postseason and (IMO) I'd call Eovaldi a quality starter you'd probably want to preserve for a game 3 start. His fastball has topped out at 102 MPH this postseason, the hardest he's thrown all season, THAT'S the guy I'd want LA to try and catch up to.

 

[ViRGE]

At some point this World Series game has to end. Right? Right?!

Edit: And Nunez is a flipping machine! Poor guy.

 

[paperfist]

At some point this World Series game has to end. Right? Right?!

Edit: And Nunez is a flipping machine! Poor guy.

It's like a triple header!

No. Nothing that happens in baseball is nearly exciting enough to sit through three+ hours of guys scratching their balls. If we wanted a sport where you have to watch nothing happening for hours only to see one decent play we'd care about soccer. AND WE DON'T

Well I've been 'watching' this game for 6 hours or so.... and there's at least 30,000 people still at the stadium.

BTW 70,000,000 people disagree with you which was MLB attendance for the year. That doesn't include spring training, playoffs, minor leagues, etc.

I didn't like Cora bringing out Eovaldi to pitch the 8th inning last game, the Sox bullpen has been very solid this postseason and (IMO) I'd call Eovaldi a quality starter you'd probably want to preserve for a game 3 start. His fastball has topped out at 102 MPH this postseason, the hardest he's thrown all season, THAT'S the guy I'd want LA to try and catch up to.

He's managing like each game is elimination, I like it. I was going to say he's doing that because he doesn't trust his pen, but you're right they've done well in the post season. I was going to say he learned this bullpen management from his time with the Astro's, but you got me. All I know is he's working on sending Eovaldi to TJ surgery #3 and he no longer has him available for his game 4 start....I think...

"Old school strategy" was nothing but "going by your guts" and "I have a feeling". Why would anyone do that when you have facts that can direct you. Would you want your doctor to say "I don't think you have cancer" or would you want him to use data to actually determine it.

Managing the facts and figures and data is managing the game. If they want to put an extreme shift on, then guys should be bunting against it. Swallow your pride and do it. Carpenter has done it a few times that I've seen for the Cardinals, and it works. Do it enough, and the shift will disappear.

Hader mows down hitters EVERY time he's in the mound (Brewer fan here). By your point, he should never be pulled. Problem is you want to use him as often as you can if if you over use him, you can't use him tomorrow or for 3+ days. He was used more often, and for more innings, and for more pitches in the post season than he was all season. You can't throw like that for 9 innings. Not to mention, as you pointed out, see him more and more times, the hitters will figure it out. Hitters are GOOD and getting BETTER - at a faster rate than pitchers are so pitchers/managers have to adjust too.

Man I dunno, but I like gut managing. Joe Torre and his round gut got us 4 rings.

This over analytics like the extreme shift is too much. It's a yawn fest watching guys hit balls to perfectly placed players. I've heard some players say it's not that easy to just hit the ball where you want. These pitchers are 100 MPH or more and you can't just bunt on that or go the other way.

Well if Cora managed the Brewers Hader could pitch everyday I gotta see that kid pitch next year somehow.

 

[ViRGE]

It's like a triple header!

Sonofa... you're right!

Another hour or so and it can set the record for longest MLB game, at least.

 

[ViRGE]

 

[Chaotic42]

Is there some point at which they suspend the game to play it another day?

 

[ViRGE]

I don't know how Eovaldi is supposed to keep this up. The man needs relieved before either he or Nunez drops dead.

Is there some point at which they suspend the game to play it another day?

I've been wondering that myself.

 

[13Gigatons]

17 innings.....oh wait 18 innings

 

[ViRGE]

Well at least the Dodger fans are getting a good value for the price of their tickets. It's two games in one!

 

[paperfist]

Is that Nunez? I listened to most of the game on AM and that dude hit the ground what 3 times? When he played for the Yankees his helmet was always flying off.

Is there some point at which they suspend the game to play it another day?

Not unless it rains or ugh earthquake.

 

[Chaotic42]

Is that Nunez? I listened to most of the game on AM and that dude hit the ground what 3 times? When he played for the Yankees his helmet was always flying off.



Not unless it rains or ugh earthquake.

I mean, it has to rain in LA eventually. Surely by March?