Basic Memory Questions

[James Bond]

I don't have much experience overclocking, but the new system I'm getting is going to need it.

I'm ordering:
C2D E6400
P5B-Deluxe
PNY 7900GS
1GB [some ram].

What I was wondering:
I see all of the different timings on RAM (4-4-4-12, 3-3-3-12, etc), but I don't know what they mean.
When I get all of my stuff, I'm going to read in depth guides, but I was wondering if someone could give me a brief but informative overview of what timings are.

Thank you!

 

[TBSN]

...Or a link to an article that explains it? I'm seeing a lot of similar questions on this forum, and I think it would be great to have a sticky or something about RAM in particular....

 

[pkme2]

Here's some links,
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1039/
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index....w&id=54&Itemid=30&limit=1&limitstart=2
You got PM.

 

[Chenchu]

here is an article that might help you: http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Memory/Memory-Bandwidth-And-Timings/

 

[cmdrdredd]

Basically the lower the numbers in the timings the faster access time the memory subsystem has. The higher Mhz rating the more bandwidth. You can either do high bandwidth with loose timings or lower bandwidth with tight timings. To do both you need either really good memory or more voltage, sometimes both.

 

[James Bond]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146568

Is this ram good? Is this their 'tenth anniversary ram'?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Tizyler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146568

Is this ram good? Is this their 'tenth anniversary ram'?

No it is not the exact same. It will do DDR2-800 though. The 10th anniversary sticks used handpicked ICs (this is what I was told) which is why they clock so well.

It's still very good memory. What is your budget for a memory purchase? I'll try to give you a few options and let you know what I'd look at.

 

[James Bond]

I want to buy 1Gig of ram to start, then get an identical stick (or sticks) in a month or two. On the first gig, I would like to spend under $145 after tax/ship

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Tizyler
I want to buy 1Gig of ram to start, then get an identical stick (or sticks) in a month or two. On the first gig, I would like to spend under $145 after tax/ship

To be honest I wouldn't do that. Most kits you buy that come with 2 sticks are matched and tested to perform perfectly with eachother. Even an "identical" stick added seperately may produce errors or instability at certain timings because it isn't exactly the same as the first one.

You can do that if you want though and I won't stop you. I just recommend buying 2 sticks at a time.

 

[James Bond]

Good info, didn't know that.
I'll get 2gb then.. i really don't want to spend more than $250.. is that possible?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Tizyler
Good info, didn't know that.
I'll get 2gb then.. i really don't want to spend more than $250.. is that possible?

it sure is... check this out

Patriot DDR2-800 2GB $289.99 w $40 rebate (Micron D9)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220144

Buffalo Firestix 2GB DDR2-800 $241 (Micron D9)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820150054

OCZ Titanium 2GB DDR2-800 $289 w/$40 rebate (Micron D9)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227179

TeamXtreme 2GB DDR2-800 $287.99 (a buit over your projected $250 budget I know) these use binned Micron D9 meaning they are more or less hand picked.
http://www.tankguys.biz/ddr2-44410-800m...sCsid=3f7cc2e80b0c3edad423591771669a0d

Out of these the best value comes from the Buffalo Firestix. The Most potential comes from TeamXtreme (hand picked ICs that will overclock very high)

I hope this helps some.

 

[James Bond]

I like the price on the firestix. Is it "good enough"?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Tizyler
I like the price on the firestix. Is it "good enough"?

Good enough? Hrm...people have run these at DDR2-1000 with 2.3v at 4-4-4-12 and DDR2-1100+ at 2.4v+ at 5-5-5-15

Depends on other factors, but the potential is there although requires luck.

the chips used in this memory is Micron D9GKX which is currently the highest clocking IC (at looser timings than D9GMH)

 

[James Bond]

I really appreciate your help. Thank you.

 

[cmdrdredd]

No Problem, I have been researching memory for months and finally understand it enough where I can offer advice.

 

[Sinnerx96]

Sorry to hijack your thread Tizyler. But I have a very relevant question for cmdrdredd, that could help both of us.

I am considering the exact same cpu and mobo as Tizyler. And I'm deciding how much more noticeable real world performance the Team ram would offer over the Firestix. I doubt either one of us would need to OC to DDR2 1000. That would be 4ghz! Unless a 7x multi is used which would be 3.5ghz. And in that case, wouldn't it be better to use the 8x multi and just oc to 880 with tighter timings instead? And if that's so, wouldn't the extra abilities of the Team ram be inconsequential anyway?

Thank in advance. I'm learning so much around here! I can't wait to finally order my system soon.

-Tony-

 

[n7]

If you're not planning on heavy OCing, the Buffalo Firestix would be fine.
Chances are, even if you want 1000+, i'm sure it'd be up to the task anyway.

Truth is, it's hard to say if the Team would really OC any higher anyway.

It really does come down to luck to an extent.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Sinnerx96
Sorry to hijack your thread Tizyler. But I have a very relevant question for cmdrdredd, that could help both of us.

I am considering the exact same cpu and mobo as Tizyler. And I'm deciding how much more noticeable real world performance the Team ram would offer over the Firestix. I doubt either one of us would need to OC to DDR2 1000. That would be 4ghz! Unless a 7x multi is used which would be 3.5ghz. And in that case, wouldn't it be better to use the 8x multi and just oc to 880 with tighter timings instead? And if that's so, wouldn't the extra abilities of the Team ram be inconsequential anyway?

Thank in advance. I'm learning so much around here! I can't wait to finally order my system soon.

-Tony-

Here's what I think. You can run 400Mhz FSb and 8x Muli for 3.2Ghz without any trouble. Run your memory 1:1 for DDR2-800. The Team is higher binned so it will do tighter timings at less voltage (2.2v to get 4-4-4-10 at DDR2-800). Then you can do 2.3v on the team memory at DDR2-100 without adjusting your FSB above 400Mhz (just use the divider) and still run 4-4-4-10 on the team memory. Since it's higher binned it can do it. The Firestix are not binned so high so you may not be able to run DDR2-1000 @ 4-4-4-10 and may need to use 5-4-4-12 or something similar.

Remember you can run 400Mhz FSB and use the dividers to run DDR2-1000/1200 if you want to. It comes down to you being willing to spend the extra $30 or whatever it is, for a part that has been basically hand selected.

 

[n7]

Looks what i just found

Buffalo Firestix 1 GB DDR2-1000 CAS 5 - $169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820150042

I would have to assume that's using D9s, & for only $170 too

Everything i can see points toward that being D9s.

Obviously not a great deal if you're buying 2 GB kits, since you can get DDR2-800 stuff for less & OC to 1000, but for 1 GB, or for those wanting a guaranteed 1000, this is very nice.

 

[Sinnerx96]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Sinnerx96
Sorry to hijack your thread Tizyler. But I have a very relevant question for cmdrdredd, that could help both of us.

I am considering the exact same cpu and mobo as Tizyler. And I'm deciding how much more noticeable real world performance the Team ram would offer over the Firestix. I doubt either one of us would need to OC to DDR2 1000. That would be 4ghz! Unless a 7x multi is used which would be 3.5ghz. And in that case, wouldn't it be better to use the 8x multi and just oc to 880 with tighter timings instead? And if that's so, wouldn't the extra abilities of the Team ram be inconsequential anyway?

Thank in advance. I'm learning so much around here! I can't wait to finally order my system soon.

-Tony-

Here's what I think. You can run 400Mhz FSb and 8x Muli for 3.2Ghz without any trouble. Run your memory 1:1 for DDR2-800. The Team is higher binned so it will do tighter timings at less voltage (2.2v to get 4-4-4-10 at DDR2-800). Then you can do 2.3v on the team memory at DDR2-100 without adjusting your FSB above 400Mhz (just use the divider) and still run 4-4-4-10 on the team memory. Since it's higher binned it can do it. The Firestix are not binned so high so you may not be able to run DDR2-1000 @ 4-4-4-10 and may need to use 5-4-4-12 or something similar.

Remember you can run 400Mhz FSB and use the dividers to run DDR2-1000/1200 if you want to. It comes down to you being willing to spend the extra $30 or whatever it is, for a part that has been basically hand selected.

Ok. But what would be better then?
Running at 400 fsb, 1:1, DDR2 800 with 8x multiplier(3200mhz) & Tighter Timings,.....
Or,....
Running at 400 fsb, 5:4, DDR2 1000 with 8x ,multiplier(3200mhz) and Loose Timings?

What about running 457 fsb, 1:1, DDR2 914 with 7x multiplier(3200mhz) and Looser Timings?

Which of these 3 would be most beneficial for performance? I'm trying to understand how this stuff works, and what would be best for my ram purchase.

Thanks!

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: Sinnerx96
Ok. But what would be better then?
Running at 400 fsb, 1:1, DDR2 800 with 8x multiplier(3200mhz) & Tighter Timings,.....
Or,....
Running at 400 fsb, 5:4, DDR2 1000 with 8x ,multiplier(3200mhz) and Loose Timings?

What about running 457 fsb, 1:1, DDR2 914 with 7x multiplier(3200mhz) and Looser Timings?

Which of these 3 would be most beneficial for performance? I'm trying to understand how this stuff works, and what would be best for my ram purchase.

Depends on the app, so it would be hard to say without being able to run a benchmark suite on the different set-ups.

In any case, the difference isn't likely to be very much, so unless you're running something that is critically dependent on memory speed, don't worry & select the best bang-for-buck.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Sinnerx96

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: Sinnerx96
Sorry to hijack your thread Tizyler. But I have a very relevant question for cmdrdredd, that could help both of us.

I am considering the exact same cpu and mobo as Tizyler. And I'm deciding how much more noticeable real world performance the Team ram would offer over the Firestix. I doubt either one of us would need to OC to DDR2 1000. That would be 4ghz! Unless a 7x multi is used which would be 3.5ghz. And in that case, wouldn't it be better to use the 8x multi and just oc to 880 with tighter timings instead? And if that's so, wouldn't the extra abilities of the Team ram be inconsequential anyway?

Thank in advance. I'm learning so much around here! I can't wait to finally order my system soon.

-Tony-

Here's what I think. You can run 400Mhz FSb and 8x Muli for 3.2Ghz without any trouble. Run your memory 1:1 for DDR2-800. The Team is higher binned so it will do tighter timings at less voltage (2.2v to get 4-4-4-10 at DDR2-800). Then you can do 2.3v on the team memory at DDR2-100 without adjusting your FSB above 400Mhz (just use the divider) and still run 4-4-4-10 on the team memory. Since it's higher binned it can do it. The Firestix are not binned so high so you may not be able to run DDR2-1000 @ 4-4-4-10 and may need to use 5-4-4-12 or something similar.

Remember you can run 400Mhz FSB and use the dividers to run DDR2-1000/1200 if you want to. It comes down to you being willing to spend the extra $30 or whatever it is, for a part that has been basically hand selected.

Ok. But what would be better then?
Running at 400 fsb, 1:1, DDR2 800 with 8x multiplier(3200mhz) & Tighter Timings,.....
Or,....
Running at 400 fsb, 5:4, DDR2 1000 with 8x ,multiplier(3200mhz) and Loose Timings?

What about running 457 fsb, 1:1, DDR2 914 with 7x multiplier(3200mhz) and Looser Timings?

Which of these 3 would be most beneficial for performance? I'm trying to understand how this stuff works, and what would be best for my ram purchase.

Thanks!

For now, more bandwidth always helps. so runnin DDR2-100 cas5 generally is better (even super pi) than DDR2-800 cas4.