Bernie Sanders Favorability Rating = 61%

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desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Unlikely. His policy positions were similar to Clinton's and its highly unlikely a Republican controlled Congress wouldn't have obstructed him like they did Obama, especially considering Bernie has been ranked as one of the most partisan senators. His approval rating would most likely be where Clinton's would have been, split down party lines with positive views among independents.

You seem to have forgotten the part of Sander's past where he openly sympathized with the USSR and various Latin American Marxist movements.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
So what? The Trump Presidency lacks legitimacy in the eyes of the majority. You know, all the people who didn't vote for him. So we get a radical & dangerous agenda imposed by the minority candidate who forges ahead as if he had a strong mandate. Nothing could be further from the truth.


He lacks legitimacy because you didn't vote for him?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,285
16,612
136
You seem to have forgotten the part of Sander's past where he openly sympathized with the USSR and various Latin American Marxist movements.

No doubt the Republicans would have hit him with that. My comment was assuming Bernie was president already. There is no doubt in my mind that during the election if Bernie was the Democratic nominee that the Republicans and trump would have hit him with everything they had including using the S word.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,552
8,078
136
Bernie stood with MLK when it was a real danger to do so. No other candidate had the strength of character to put their so called convictions on the line when it came to their safety. He had the balls to stand against that which is wrong. That's courage above all else I've seen in this mess of the past election.

Football player? That's Trump. Roll over the opposition because what matters is winning, and let God sort out the poor losing bastards.

A secret of management that I employed and worked well. When there is a problem it is easier to understand the dynamics to positively create team players and motivate them by explaining how they matter rather than crushing them. Certainly there are times when a more forceful approach is needed, but people personally invested, yes emotionally, works well the majority of the time. A complete lack or disregard for the human element is a path to failure.

Not a cheerleader, but a coach.

Re your secret of management, as a former manager in a medium sized company, as well as holding a senior enlisted position in the military for quite a number of years, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you mentioned in that regard.

What you mentioned works, and it works well.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,285
16,612
136
Re your secret of management, as a former manager in a medium sized company, as well as holding a senior enlisted position in the military for quite a number of years, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you mentioned in that regard.

What you mentioned works, and it works well.

It does work well indeed. Bernie, however doesn't poses that quality or at least he has yet to use it to get anything accomplished.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
He lacks legitimacy because you didn't vote for him?

Because 2.9M more people voted for Hillary than for him, 2.1% of the total. A sensible politician would realize that's not a strong mandate but rather a fluke of the electoral college system. Not Donald- hard right turn & slap the pedal to the metal. That's not what most Americans wanted at all.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,766
543
126
Unlikely. Her approval rating tracked pretty strongly with the Republican attacks on her. That is, before she ran, she was liked, after she announced (or hinted), Republicans turned on the attack machine and he approval ratings went down. Bernie on the other hand never had to deal with that and in fact had Republicans praising him (even running pro Bernie commercials). But I don't expect you to be aware of that because you are a dumb ass Bernie supporter. As I said before you are the lefts version of a trump supporter, all about the feels and ignorant as fuck.

For shame, Hillary voters. I sure hope you people get your game together for the next election... but I doubt it.. THAT requires putting the blame on those responsible (dnc, you and Hillary herself), and we sure as hell know thats not going to happen.. personal responsibility and introspection are apparently no longer traits of Liberalism..

Clinton lost because she was a poor candidate she couldn't even bring herself to embrace actual good progressive ideas that Bernie brought to the table. He even campaign for her and all you can to is insult others and have no capability to be even consider that your support of an establishment candidate this last election was a fucking mistake that gave us Trump. Thanks for fucking nothing.


_________
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,285
16,612
136
Clinton lost because she was a poor candidate she couldn't even bring herself to embrace actual good progressive ideas that Bernie brought to the table. He even campaign for her and all you can to is insult others and have no capability to be even consider that your support of an establishment candidate this last election was a fucking mistake that gave us Trump. Thanks for fucking nothing.


_________

She was such a poor candidate that she beat Bernie by millions of votes. She was such a poor candidate that she won millions more votes than trump. Some how by your retarded logic, despite not being able to beat Hillary, he was the better candidate and would have beat trump. I also lol'ed worry your establishment comment considering your hero has been in politics much longer than Hillary. In fact, has Bernie ever had a job in the private sector?


You've got nothing and you'll get nothing because your brain is empty but your gut is full.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,766
543
126
She was such a poor candidate that she beat Bernie by millions of votes. She was such a poor candidate that she won millions more votes than trump. Some how by your retarded logic, despite not being able to beat Hillary, he was the better candidate and would have beat trump. I also lol'ed worry your establishment comment considering your hero has been in politics much longer than Hillary. In fact, has Bernie ever had a job in the private sector?


You've got nothing and you'll get nothing because your brain is empty but your gut is full.

You can't even realize that Clinton should have been able to overcome the republicans cheating via crosscheck and other methods in short she was not able to hold the cross-section of voters that Obama won with together. She sucked in comparison to Obama when it came to campaigning.

She may have won more popular votes than Trump but that's a bitter consolation when she failed to campaign in the supposed democratic firewall states she lost by mere thousands of votes
Maybe she should've remembered that it was an electoral count campaign and provided ads about issues instead of having a majority of her ads just be personal attacks.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads

Hillary Clinton’s campaign ran TV ads that had less to do with policy than any other presidential candidate in the past four presidential races, according to a new studypublished on Monday by the Wesleyan Media Project.

Clinton’s team spent a whopping $1 billion on the election in all — about twice what Donald Trump’s campaign spent. Clinton spent $72 million on television ads in the final weeks alone.

But only 25 percent of advertising supporting her campaign went after Trump on policy grounds, the researchers found. By comparison, every other presidential candidate going back to at least 2000 devoted more than 40 percent of his or her advertising to policy-based attacks. None spent nearly as much time going after an opponent’s personality as Clinton’s ads did.

You know your campaign is shit when even the orange one has more policy based ads (even if they were lies) as a percentage of his ad campaign.



She didn't even have ads up very much in Wisconsin until it became apparent that her mishandled campaign was faltering.

Shillary partisans like you sure are an ignorant lot.


_______________
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,285
16,612
136
You can't even realize that Clinton should have been able to overcome the republicans cheating via crosscheck and other methods in short she was not able to hold the cross-section of voters that Obama won with together. She sucked in comparison to Obama when it came to campaigning.

She may have won more popular votes than Trump but that's a bitter consolation when she failed to campaign in the supposed democratic firewall states she lost by mere thousands of votes
Maybe she should've remembered that it was an electoral count campaign and provided ads about issues instead of having a majority of her ads just be personal attacks.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads



You know your campaign is shit when even the orange one has more policy based ads (even if they were lies) as a percentage of his ad campaign.



She didn't even have ads up very much in Wisconsin until it became apparent that her mishandled campaign was faltering.

Shillary partisans like you sure are an ignorant lot.


_______________

Lol. I've already said all of that way before you. Sorry dumb ass, unlike you, I can be critical of people I support.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
You can't even realize that Clinton should have been able to overcome the republicans cheating via crosscheck and other methods in short she was not able to hold the cross-section of voters that Obama won with together. She sucked in comparison to Obama when it came to campaigning.

She may have won more popular votes than Trump but that's a bitter consolation when she failed to campaign in the supposed democratic firewall states she lost by mere thousands of votes
Maybe she should've remembered that it was an electoral count campaign and provided ads about issues instead of having a majority of her ads just be personal attacks.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads



You know your campaign is shit when even the orange one has more policy based ads (even if they were lies) as a percentage of his ad campaign.



She didn't even have ads up very much in Wisconsin until it became apparent that her mishandled campaign was faltering.

Shillary partisans like you sure are an ignorant lot.


_______________

Concur.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,766
543
126
Lol. I've already said all of that way before you. Sorry dumb ass, unlike you, I can be critical of people I support.
You don't know me if you don't think I have my own criticisms of Bernie. but go on with your Shillary ways bro.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,267
126
It does work well indeed. Bernie, however doesn't poses that quality or at least he has yet to use it to get anything accomplished.

I submit that Bernie as Senator would vastly different than Bernie as holder of the Office. Consider that Bernie sides with Democrats mostly yet isn't part of their machine and is very much on his own. There was no path by which anyone would allow him to lead.

Contrast that to Bernie the President. Now he's not some afterthought but Dems have to work with him or face adverse consequences. So there would be compromise by both sides to get things done and oppose the Republicans. Seems to me they would work better together than with Trump.
 
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Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
Still those ignorantly claiming voting totals. Neither tried to get the most total votes. Both tried for electoral votes. If total votes counted more, both would have campaigned differently. Hillary did a poor job of where she decided to hold rallies, spend money, etc. Nobody knows what the outcome would have been if only the total votes mattered. Trump certainly wouldn't have spent so much effort in low population areas. Instead gone for the higher concentration areas. But his campaign was smart enough to understand electoral votes matter more.

The rules were set before the election, she lost. But keep acting like only the popular vote counts if that makes you feel better. If she had it done do over, she's do it differently I think. She may have won. I doubt the same mistakes will be made next time by whoever runs.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,488
54,277
136
Still those ignorantly claiming voting totals. Neither tried to get the most total votes. Both tried for electoral votes. If total votes counted more, both would have campaigned differently. Hillary did a poor job of where she decided to hold rallies, spend money, etc. Nobody knows what the outcome would have been if only the total votes mattered. Trump certainly wouldn't have spent so much effort in low population areas. Instead gone for the higher concentration areas. But his campaign was smart enough to understand electoral votes matter more.

The rules were set before the election, she lost. But keep acting like only the popular vote counts if that makes you feel better. If she had it done do over, she's do it differently I think. She may have won. I doubt the same mistakes will be made next time by whoever runs.

What is the basis for your contention that different campaign tactics would have changed the overall vote percentages by more than 2 points? As best I can tell the answer is: nothing.

If you look at this question empirically it is quite unlikely that a campaign run on the popular vote would have ended favorably to Trump so before you start calling other people ignorant you should learn more about this.
 

jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,178
444
136
Hilly simply didn't represent Democratic values regarding the working middle class and outsourcing. These were the votes that lost it for her IMO. Pennsylvania spoke. Was she for the TPP or not? I think she fell to bad advice from the DNC. as in.. Apple is better because Microsoft is so bad campaign.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
You don't know me if you don't think I have my own criticisms of Bernie. but go on with your Shillary ways bro.

Hillary hate is a debilitating mental condition. If it wasn't, Trump wouldn't be President.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
No doubt the Republicans would have hit him with that. My comment was assuming Bernie was president already. There is no doubt in my mind that during the election if Bernie was the Democratic nominee that the Republicans and trump would have hit him with everything they had including using the S word.

They would be saying that he is a Manchuria candidate who was secretly indoctrinated when he visited the Soviet Union on honeymoon. And other stuff would pop up.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,314
6,646
126
Hillary hate is a debilitating mental condition. If it wasn't, Trump wouldn't be President.
Why not say that Hillary love is a debilitating mental condition because it denies the reality that Hillary was hated and her lovers rammed her down our throats anyway. Now if you don't like that argument, I hope you can understand why I reject yours. The only debilitating mental condition on the left is the incapacity to understand and address moral outrage. Sanders was the moral outrage candidate who represented the kind of morality liberals are capable of feeling, outrage against unfairness and inequality, the kind of inner sense that even monkeys feel. Did you know, for example, that monkeys will not play games in which another monkey gets better rewards for the same effort that he does. He will see that and stop playing. We have a nation that is dying because the monkeys have stopped playing. We have allowed our commons, our cheese wheel to be overwhelmed my rats. Meanwhile democrats are out campaigning on how stupid Republicans are while they keep getting voted an open door to the cheese. What can be stupider than losing to the stupid?

There is a very simple rebuttal to all the Hillary fans here and that is Donald Trump. He won and she lost and not many of you understand why because of reasons. The real reason in my worthless opinion is that the country drifts right because the left has no message and no moral call, no real focus on class warfare. If you think it isn't going to require a revolution to put power back in the hands of people and give them a sense of control over their destiny you're nuts. They will just burn everything down and we can see it with Trump every day. It's the DNC that got the government it deserve. It's not Clinton's fault. She was the outer expression of that inner rot that has it's eyes on funding for campaigns, the 'grown ups of the party'. Pardon me while I spit.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Bernie voted against an invasion of Iraq. Hillary voted for it. Bernie reasons were stated at the time:

Mr. Speaker, I do not think any Member of this body disagrees that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant, a murderer, and a man who has started two wars. He is clearly someone who cannot be trusted or believed. The question, Mr. Speaker, is not whether we like Saddam Hussein or not. The question is whether he represents an imminent threat to the American people and whether a unilateral invasion of Iraq will do more harm than good.

Bernie was 100% correct. Hillary was 100% wrong. The consequences were hundreds of thousands of dead people, trillions of dollars that could have been used for better purposes and regional instability that appears to be getting worse rather than better.

Hillary was war-mongering to topple Assad thus demonstrating that she was not capable of learning from past mistakes. There is a reason that America is the most loathed country in the world. America engages in loathsome activities in other countries for no other reason other than it has the military power to do so. Perpetual wars of discretion that have no connection to American interests MUST end.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,488
54,277
136
They would be saying that he is a Manchuria candidate who was secretly indoctrinated when he visited the Soviet Union on honeymoon. And other stuff would pop up.

I mean Sanders is on the record giving pretty effusive praise to Castro's takeover of Cuba and has never admitted being wrong about that. That would have been pretty easy to hang around his neck and that's just one thing that came out despite basically no oppo research being done on him.

Sanders never saw his popularity tank because no one ever took him seriously as a presidential candidate. As soon as they did, Republicans would have turned to hating him in no time.
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,766
543
126
Hillary hate is a debilitating mental condition. If it wasn't, Trump wouldn't be President.
It's not Hillary hate it's realizing that she was the wrong person to run in 2016. She had no message to entice the independent voters to choose her that wouldn't cast doubt on what her positions staked out previously.

Trump beat her over the head with free trade and she couldn't rebut his argument with any credibility.

Now I suspected that Trump was most likely lying about his populist positions because they worked well in getting independents to choose him over Hillary and that he probably would abandon those positions at the first suggestion by any republican who had his ear.

That's why if I was in a swing state I would've voted for her. My vote in a solid state wasn't needed for her at all.

If Hillary hate is a debilitating mental condition then slavish support for the democratic party no matter how rotten the DNC was and certain people like DWS were is like a fucking extremely contagious epidemic that is immune to any treatment. Because that slavish support got us Trump and Trump is going to affect anyone without the means to protect themselves from his policies.

So thanks again for that Bro.


________
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,314
6,646
126
I mean Sanders is on the record giving pretty effusive praise to Castro's takeover of Cuba and has never admitted being wrong about that. That would have been pretty easy to hang around his neck and that's just one thing that came out despite basically no oppo research being done on him.

Sanders never saw his popularity tank because no one ever took him seriously as a presidential candidate. As soon as they did, Republicans would have turned to hating him in no time.
How long dit it take and how much money did it take to destroy Clinton. The whole point was that the democrats pushed her anyway without a counter message other than that Republicams lie after her reputation was severely damaged. There wasn't the time it would take to imbed that much deep seated propagandized hate toward him. That they would have tried is without doubt.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
Paid? No. Those guys did it for their team. They'll do anything to be apart of a group, especially one that shares their political views. Of course not all Bernie supporters were trolls. But the same people you described in your previous post also exist on the left, albeit in smaller numbers. However, like their counterparts on the right, they are driven by emotions and are typically ignorant and politically active. Sadly, I think it's a growing segment (hopefully one that ends up fixing itself) and neither, the ignorant trump supporter or the ignorant Bernie supporter are good for democracy and that's if you ignore their policy positions.

I don't think I necessarily disagree with that, but what you're describing is almost inherent to populist movements; people become highly emotional not about just their party or political views but also their candidates, and create idols out of them. That's not trolling to me, that's drinking the koolaid. At least anecdotally, I know a handful of people leaning right-of-center that liked Sanders before the primaries even really took off, just because he was an "outsider" and had some policies at odds with both the Republican and Democratic mainline, and that's all it takes to win some hearts. Granted, if it had come down to Trump vs Sanders they still would have voted Trump, but I feel pretty confident none of them were trolling, just captured by the cult of personality.


Your first link only mentions Sanders in the context of his supporters being pissed off in light of the DNC hack. Your second link concerns right-wing echo chambers that parrot fake news, nothing exclusive to Sanders concern trolling, nor anything likely to significantly reach the left's eyes. I won't bother clicking the third link since it amounts to the total amount of effort (along with a couple copy and paste motions) you've put into your argument.
 
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