Best 18in+ LCD for Gaming????

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Chippy

Member
Feb 5, 2000
113
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0
I thought pixel ghosting was more a function of pixel response time, not the input source?
As the VG191 has a TOTAL pixel response time of 25ms, I thought it would be great for games....but only if you use a Video Card that has a DVI output???
Can anyone confirm or refute this???
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
"As the VG191 has a TOTAL pixel response time of 25ms, I thought it would be great for games"

That equates to a 40Hz refresh rate. Needless to say, that's terrible. To achieve a standard 75Hz refresh rate, the response time has to be 13.3ms, almost twice as fast as the viewsonic.

THG reviewed a Viewsonic VX500 which appears to be a smaller version of the VG191. It has the same 25ms response time:

"The first flaw - unfortunately a recurring one - is the afterglow. Even if it's more brief than most of the monitors we tested here, it's still hard to overlook, particularly since it's longer than that of the better TN + film monitors. The afterglow is really intrusive in gaming situations."

The only panel that THG said was any good for gaming was an Eizo. The larger than 15" panels from Eiazo use a different panel with slower stats.
 

Conroy9

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
611
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0
No matter how hard you look for an article on ffd, the only one you'll find is that extremetech one written in september.

And, check this link.. not sure how credible the author is, but i would have thought that there would have been a lot more hype if something was coming out first quarter this year as originally thought, esp at CES
 

magnacudaIT

Junior Member
Jan 17, 2002
9
0
0
Just about everyone I have asked has told me to just wait till I use the DVI out. I am a wait and see guy because to be honest I am not sold on the vga analogue out. There is a DAD conversion going on then you get into clock and sync issues and with the response time of LCD to contend with you have some serious pixel ghosting you will be really disappointed going from crt to lcd analogue. DVI supposedly takes out the entire clock sync issue so it is supposed to tighten things up. I will be confirming this no later than monday my card is due to arrive.
 

Dufusyte

Senior member
Jul 7, 2000
659
0
0
The Mitsubishi LCD with Feed Forward technology is stated to sell at $1000 for a 15" display:



<< Mitsubishi Electric's New ANGLEVIEW® FFDTM Technology Improves Image Quality While Reducing Development Costs Intra-Grayscale Response Accelerated to Faster Than 20 ms

June 2001 (Newstream) -- The Electronic Device Group of Mitsubishi Electric & Electronics USA, Inc. introduced a new fast response 15-inch thin film transistor (TFT) liquid crystal display (LCD) module, with its new Feed Forward DrivingTM (FFDTM) technology being the centerpiece of the panel. The ANGLEVIEW® display, designed in conventional twisted nematic (TN) mode, offers faster display response time, high brightness, high color saturation and a wide viewing angle, making a breakthrough in the clarity of motion video and scrolling text. The new panel is ideal for multimedia and LCD television applications.

... Mitsubishi Electric's AA150XB04 ANGLEVIEW panel, with FFD technology, will sample in the third quarter, with volume production scheduled for the fourth quarter of 2001. Pricing is $1,000 each in sample quantities.

http://www.link2semiconductor.com/articles/is060511.jsp
>>


 

Chippy

Member
Feb 5, 2000
113
0
0
Is "$1000 in sample quantities" sorta like "new Athlon XP 2000+ - $220 each in quantites of 1000"??????
It had better be a DAMN-SWEET 15" LCD for over $1000......
 

Conroy9

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
611
0
0
ttt?

oh i didn't count that article because it said volume production q4 2001

i just gave up waiting for ffd and ordered a dell 2000fp
i can't wait, i'll let you know how it is when it comes

i got a 1702fp for my sister too, but i think the pixel refresh on that is lacking
 

Chippy

Member
Feb 5, 2000
113
0
0
ttt = "To The Top" (So that people see & therefore can respond to the post subject - sorta-like "Bump")

Let me know how you like the Dell 2000FP - I'm kinda leaning towards it due to cost - ~$1360 w/Free shipping.
Do you game much??? I'm going to use it for FPS LAN games mostly...
Let me know.... Thanks!
 

Conroy9

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
611
0
0
FPS make me dizzy so i don't play those much
I'll see if i can borrow wolfenstein or something so i can let you know how it looks though
 

Conroy9

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
611
0
0
hey i was reading toms hardware guide and looking over my specs again, and i have a question

The dell specs for contrast show "350:1(typical) 250:1(min)" and for brightness 240cd/m^2 typical and 200 min

what does "typical" mean? does that mean some monitors can be as low as min?? or does it mean that all the monitors should be "typical" most of the time, but in some situations, the monitor can get that low?
 

Zarathustra2000

Junior Member
Jan 18, 2002
4
0
0
I can vouch too for the Planar 18.1". Using it with an MSI Geforce 3 Ti200 DVI.
RTCW is fine, and so are other games. There is a very slight "wash effect", but you have to *really* look for it.

The 18.1" has a 50ms response time total and it's fine to me. Other Planar models have 25ms response time total.

I'll never go back to a CRT again; I'm far happier with the Planar than a 21" Sony G520 or Samsung 1200NF, and the usable real estate is almost the same as with the 21" CRTs- not only is their view space 20", but with them you have usually bring the screen image another inch in at all sides to help minimize blurring. My last 21" CRT had an 18.5" screen size given the necessary adjustments- and I still had to compromise with blurry text in a few spots.

The Planar is 100% perfect down to each damn pixel. I can run Command Prompt in 4x6 and still read it. Try doing that on any CRT at or above 1280x1024. Finally, I can stare at the monitor now for 12 hours and not get a headache. I sleep better when my eyes aren't bombarded by cathode rays 12 hours a day- no joke.









 

Conroy9

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
611
0
0
iiyama had a 19" that could do 1600x1200
when i emailed them for pricing, they it was about $1950 (this was when the cheapest 20" viewsonic i could find was $2150)
 

Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com


<< are there any 18" lcds (aroudn that size) that can do 1600x1200? >>



The 18.1" Sony SDM-N80 can, though I'm guessing that's not what you're asking.

http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/displays/sdm_n80_specs.shtml

The SDM-N80 has a native of 1280x1024, but can squeeze 1600x1200. Yuck.

I believe the 19" Planar CT1905s is the smallest desktop UXGA panel widely available.

http://www.planar.com/monitors/CT1905S.asp

Who knows, by the time I finish typing this, something else will probably come out and prove me wrong.
 

badga

Member
Nov 4, 2001
110
0
0
Chippy and others, i spent an inordinate amount of time researching LCD's over the last 3 months checking out every press release, article and forum that i could find. Some thoughts on gaming and other topics:

Gaming: It is apparent that just about everyone has a different idea of what ghosting is. Half the people see it, the other half don't. I do! However, the ghosting is minimal or to me at least acceptable. I am judging this mainly with Urban Terror, a Q3A mod though i did test briefly with Q3A, MOH:AA and RtCW. I definetly have given up something to have a clear desktop. The ghosting is more pronouced with the dark maps with light areas - its the transitions that are more noticable. This is of course accentuated in a high motion ambush where one is turning around in circles rapidly. Running down a hall and seeing someone appear around a corner in front of me is no problem as relative motion is minimal.

At the end of the day though like with my CRT i have some days were i am "on" and some where i "off" - the state of my head (tired, over-caffienated, distracted) remains the key variable in whether i play well. The planar 174 i got (25ms) is good enough that i can adjustfor what ghosting there is. I love gaming, but the majority of my time is working/surfing in 2D. The tradeoff is acceptable. If gaming is everything to you, stick with CRT.

FFD: I had been holding out for implementation of the FFD technology as described in the extremetech article linkes somewhere above. I have been a PC, A/V, toy junkie for years and can recognize when a product is not ready to be released and FFD is a classic example. As someone else pointed out the only buzz about this was in the forums and all people were doing was x-referencing the same xtremetech article. Someone in that forum pasted in a note allegedly from NECmitsu stating that FFD is a year off - I believe them. This led me to decide to buy now rather than wait it out.

Where to Buy -- Dell: I bought there and i think you would be crazy not to as well. The couponing and discounting available got me a 17.4 Planar for $605. the same couponing has gotten the Dell branded 2000fp for under $1350. Thier online stock-keeping and inventory may suck but you would be crazy not to take advantage of their deals.

Specs: if you can't find a spec on response time don't trust it...probably a last gen panel. As someone pointed out the brightness specs are pretty pointless - they are all too bright. Response time is all important and don't consider a panel unless it is at least <25ms.

Bang for the buck: over xmas i had my finger on the proceed button on the Dell 2000fp but held off. I decided that for me at least the prox $1350 cost was overkill for a monitor that i probably would replace when the FFD panels did show up. With 18-19" panels in the $1000 range, I decided that the $600 for a 17.4 panel with near best in class specs was a no brainer. Its not the most asthetically pleasing model out there (thin bezel NEC's or Compaqs), but to me that wasn't worth the extra $300+.

DVI: I am not such a convert. Last week i replaced a GF3 with a GF3-ti200 w DVI. There was an improvement in 2D (no noticable change in 3D performance) but it wasn't that much compared to the vga connection. However, as a GF3ti200 card can be aquired for reletively little money ($160 v$300) for a GF3ti500 or the >$300 that my original card cost i have no regrets.

just my $0.02 worth

badga
 

Chippy

Member
Feb 5, 2000
113
0
0
badga;
Thanks for your reply - it's nice to hear observations/opions from someone who's actually gone-through all the problems & actually HAS an LCD to speak from experience.
I still haven't made-up my mind yet, but you've given me some great things to think about!
 

Conroy9

Senior member
Jan 28, 2000
611
0
0
Well, my monitors arrived. I'm very happy so far.

On the 50ms 1702fp:
I can notice the ghosting on the desktop when i drag windows around quickly, but not on movies.
I didn't bother trying any games on this because I bought it for my sister

On the 25ms 2000fp
I can see no ghosting when using office/dev apps or browsing the web; movies are also fine.
I've only tried a few games, (the one with the most action being subspace, a 2d space shooter, black
background with white walls moving around the screen)
In subspace, i can see the ghosting, but it hasn't bothered me at all yet
I'll give an update in a couple days when I get a chance to try out more games and see if i canfind a fps to try out

oh, and neither has any dead pixels
 

Raspewtin

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 1999
3,634
0
0
i have a planaer 18.1 - have no idea if its the best, but i have no ghosting issues on it and it's pretty good for gaming. never had another 18.1 LCD though.
 
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