Best LC loop

[Smiki007]

Hi to all,
I have those parts of LCS:
1. CPU Block (Swiftech APOGEE HD Ultimate Extreme Performance Water Block - Black)
2. GPU blocks (Two EK-FC Titan/GTX 780 - Acetal)
3. D5 Pump (Swiftech MCP 655B)
4. Radiator (Swiftech MCR220-DRIVE REV3 Dual 120mm Radiator w/ Integrated MCP35X Pump and Reservoir)
5. Radiator (Phobya G-Charger 360 mm)
6. Radiator (Phobya Xstreme 200 mm)
7. Reservoir (Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev. 2)

I'll planning to make one loop (or two independent) to cool my CPU & Two GPUs, I already install the 360 rad at the top of my case (Obsidian 900D), and 200 Xstreme radiator mounted (with little modding), at the side 3.5" HDD cages, and pump at the bottom of the case. Now I don't know what to do and how to install the Swiftech MCR 220 radiator and reservoir to make all aesthetic and functional.
Any suggestions and help please.:'(

 

[ViviTheMage]

Any pictures of current setup, or mock setup would help.

 

[thilanliyan]

Definitely do two loops if you're going to be running both pumps. I don't think it's a good idea to put two (especially) different pumps in the same loop.

 

[Smiki007]

Definitely do two loops if you're going to be running both pumps. I don't think it's a good idea to put two (especially) different pumps in the same loop.

What do You think?
In the case of two loops should I arange them this way:
CPU Loop: MCR-220 (with integrated MCP35x pump and reservoir) --> CPU --> 200 Rad --> MCR-220
GPU Loop: Pump (MCP 655B) --> GPU1 --> GPU2 --> 360 Rad --> Res --> Pump

 

[Aikouka]

Out of curiosity, where did you put the pump at the bottom?

Definitely do two loops if you're going to be running both pumps. I don't think it's a good idea to put two (especially) different pumps in the same loop.

Why would that matter? Pumps push water. Just because they're different models shouldn't have any bearing on how they interact with each other.

When I was considering how to setup my loop in my 900D, I read up on single vs. dual loop. All the advice that I found pointed toward just using a single loop given you also gain redundancy by using two pumps in one line versus two pumps each on their own line.

 

[Smiki007]

Now, this sketch shows better what I'd planed to do:

Now I would like to know which loop is better and more effective (note that I have two different pumps, one MCP35x integrated into 240 radiator and one MCP655B installed at the bottom of the case, and also I would like to use all LC parts that I have).
Actually one of my colleagues (Hydrodynamic / Mechanic specialist), told me that I can go with one loop and the pumps does not interferes nor diminish the head pressure (flow rate) having only the one loop (like shown in the sketch), and also tubing is arranged much better then in two loops option.

 

[smackababy]

Option 2 looks like overkill for your CPU. A 240 rad should dispense around 200-240w of heat. You don't need 2. However, you two GPUs would do better with the additional rad.

 

[dma0991]

Option 1 looks nice and probably is the best way to go, option 2 with CPU having that much radiators sounds a bit over the top.

 

[felang]

Option 1 looks nice and probably is the best way to go, option 2 with CPU having that much radiators sounds a bit over the top.

I´d go with a single loop

 

[Smiki007]

Any pictures of current setup, or mock setup would help.

Here.

 

[rgallant]

just saying
I'd turn the 200 res. the other way to allow air to bleed out.
-plus try to have the flow up ward to assist air bleeding or tapped air.

 

[Smiki007]

I've finished my (one), loop. Looks great, all air bleed out. No temps test yet, (accidentally broke one 90º angled adapter installed on outlet of the MCP 655 pump, waiting for replacement, probably next week).

 

[OVerLoRDI]

I'd do loop 1. The CPU only loop in loop 2 is way overkill.

 

[Smiki007]

I've finished my (one), loop.

I'd do loop 1. The CPU only loop in loop 2 is way overkill.

Yeah, made only loop 1.

 

[aigomorla]

Redundant mismatch pumps are not recommended because of possibility of overworking the weaker pump beyond what's it intended for.

U end up stressing the weaker pump and wearing it out faster.In the ops case the ddc would get stresses and then overheating and die from pcb failure


Also when dealing with 1800+Dollars on the gpu id go dual loops and put the gpus on a dual pump system for safety reasons.

79.99 is worth investing on 2000 dollars of hardware.
U won't cry about that vs replacing a titan or gtx.

U throttle a cpu its fixable due to thermal shutdown.
U throttle a gpu ur gonna cry when u smell ur mosfets smoking and need to replace them.

I'd do loop 1. The CPU only loop in loop 2 is way overkill.

he has 2k invested in the GPU.
His 2 gtx's = cost more then what most people pay for a complete system with monitor and printer.
His GPU sector alone costs more then most people in the gen hardware looking for advice...
He has 2 780's... 1500 dollars in just GPU. Card ONLY.

(u can see im trying to make a point... that he has spent so much... its already too late not to tip toe arround overkill)

OP... too much is invested core hardware... go with a second pump for redundancy on a GPU loop only...
As i said.. when a pump dies... if it dies... u wont be sad... u'll be annoyed.
When a GPU dies cuz a pump died.... u will be BALLING... and VERY VERY UPSET, because 79.99 would of saved you 2000+ dollars. (depending on how many gpus and what gpu died.)
And that 79.99 safety investment can be recycled down future builds... or turned into another build entirely...


At some point it makes sense to go overkill... because overkill also means overkill protection.
And well, when your dealing with a high end gaming PC on a complete price tag that equals to down payments on cars.. i think 100 extra here and there isnt a bad deal for that protection.

 

[FiLeZz]

I've finished my (one), loop. Looks great, all air bleed out. No temps test yet, (accidentally broke one 90º angled adapter installed on outlet of the MCP 655 pump, waiting for replacement, probably next week).

Cant wait to see pics

 

[Smiki007]

Redundant mismatch pumps are not recommended because of possibility of overworking the weaker pump beyond what's it intended for.

U end up stressing the weaker pump and wearing it out faster.In the ops case the ddc would get stresses and then overheating and die from pcb failure


Also when dealing with 1800+Dollars on the gpu id go dual loops and put the gpus on a dual pump system for safety reasons.

79.99 is worth investing on 2000 dollars of hardware.
U won't cry about that vs replacing a titan or gtx.

U throttle a cpu its fixable due to thermal shutdown.
U throttle a gpu ur gonna cry when u smell ur mosfets smoking and need to replace them.



he has 2k invested in the GPU.
His 2 gtx's = cost more then what most people pay for a complete system with monitor and printer.
His GPU sector alone costs more then most people in the gen hardware looking for advice...
He has 2 780's... 1500 dollars in just GPU. Card ONLY.

(u can see im trying to make a point... that he has spent so much... its already too late not to tip toe arround overkill)

OP... too much is invested core hardware... go with a second pump for redundancy on a GPU loop only...
As i said.. when a pump dies... if it dies... u wont be sad... u'll be annoyed.
When a GPU dies cuz a pump died.... u will be BALLING... and VERY VERY UPSET, because 79.99 would of saved you 2000+ dollars. (depending on how many gpus and what gpu died.)
And that 79.99 safety investment can be recycled down future builds... or turned into another build entirely...


At some point it makes sense to go overkill... because overkill also means overkill protection.
And well, when your dealing with a high end gaming PC on a complete price tag that equals to down payments on cars.. i think 100 extra here and there isnt a bad deal for that protection.

Probably you're right, but also I spoke with some hydrodynamic colleges of mine and they told me that there were be no problem in my setup to have two pumps in line (especially with one 200mm and 240mm rad, before the flow from MCP655B reach and enter to weakest pump MCP35X), also they said if one pump (does not mater which) stop working for any reason, the second will continue to operating and maintain the whole system without the problem. (which I also believe). Also when I've asked (in others forums too), how many loops to build (1 or 2), according to the list of parts I have, 95% of forum members told me to go with a single loop. Now you telling me to go with two loops or to buy another pump (will be 3 totally), to protect my $2000+ investment, because of a pump failure. I'm now very confused :\

 

[aigomorla]

Now you telling me to go with two loops or to buy another pump (will be 3 totally), to protect my $2000+ investment, because of a pump failure. I'm now very confused :\

yes because is 79.99 NOT WORTH it to protect the 2000 dollars?

and ive had DDC1's fail because they were paired with DDC2s.

what happens is the weaker head pump gets forced to spin higher and faster then what its designed for.
Water isnt compressible... so its like a tug of war... only going in 1 side... as u can tell if 1 person is too strong.. the second guy will get PULLED.

This causes the PCB to get hotter due to more work being displaced by pump.
This causes the DDC's to:

ask your hydro friend how many years he's played and used laing pumps.
I have 13+yrs working with laing in our hobby... (DDC + D5 especially....)
In the 13 yrs i learned u dont miss pair pumps. (the guys at laing even told me... not to mispair pumps..)
(i use 6 pumps... 3 loops... to protect hardware probably close to the value of yours core wise.)

CPU -> L1
3x580GTX -> L2
eVGA Classified -> L3

6 pumps means... i have a VERY VERY VERY SMALL chance my system will not by operational if a pump or 2 or even 3 should die.
Like RAIDING HDDs...

Also in 13 yrs i learned sometimes overkill watercooling means overkill protection which means protection period!
Think of it like enterprise sector with ECC and all that other protection they get.
Well, watercooling is like enterprise cooling... it was first used on Crays...

EXCEPTION:
PWM DDC is an exception as the ddc forces max current though the PCB via PWM sense.

 

[Smiki007]

yes because is 79.99 NOT WORTH it to protect the 2000 dollars?

and ive had DDC1's fail because they were paired with DDC2s. 

what happens is the weaker head pump gets forced to spin higher and faster then what its designed for.
Water isnt compressible... so its like a tug of war... only going in 1 side... as u can tell if 1 person is too strong.. the second guy will get PULLED.  

This causes the PCB to get hotter due to more work being displaced by pump.
This causes the DDC's to:
[img]http://cdn.overclock.net/0/0f/600x338px-LL-0f5dd193_IMAG0178.jpeg[/img]

ask your hydro friend how many years he's played and used laing pumps.
I have 13+yrs working with laing in our hobby... (DDC + D5 especially....)  
In the 13 yrs i learned u dont miss pair pumps. (the guys at laing even told me... not to mispair pumps..)
(i use 6 pumps... 3 loops... to protect hardware probably close to the value of yours core wise.)
[img]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/Nadeshiko/IMG_0777.jpg[/img]

CPU -> L1
3x580GTX -> L2
eVGA Classified -> L3

6 pumps means... i have a VERY VERY VERY SMALL chance my system will not by operational if a pump or 2 or even 3 should die. 
Like RAIDING HDDs...  :P  

Also in 13 yrs i learned sometimes overkill watercooling means overkill protection which means protection period!
Think of it like enterprise sector with ECC and all that other protection they get.
Well, watercooling is like enterprise cooling... it was first used on Crays...

EXCEPTION:
PWM DDC is an exception as the ddc forces max current though the PCB via PWM sense.

The MCP35X Pump is PWM controled. Does it count?
Also could I disconnect one pump (MCP35X which is integrated at the bottom of the Swiftech 240mm Radiator), and just stay with MCP655B Pump for whole loop. Buying option is very difficult for me becouse I'm not from USA, and in Lima/Peru, there's no WC parts in shops, only importation, or to go with two loops (as shown on the sketch in my previous post).

 

[aigomorla]

The MCP35X Pump is PWM controled. Does it count?
Also could I disconnect one pump (MCP35X which is integrated at the bottom of the Swiftech 240mm Radiator), and just stay with MCP655B Pump for whole loop. Buying option is very difficult for me becouse I'm not from USA, and in Lima/Peru, there's no WC parts in shops, only importation, or to go with two loops (as shown on the sketch in my previous post).

35X is a PWM pump so it doesnt count.
It limits voltage sent to pump.
so if ur ddc is a pwm ddc... then its fine to mismatch.
Your D5 will do all the work.. and your pwm ddc will probably not see much usage unless ur cpu went to load.

And i assume u dont load your cpu 24/7 to make your pwm ddc load up full all the time.
Even then it still limits max voltage sent to pcb @ full.

So if ur DDC is PWM ignore my warning.


And then in your scenario i would single loop with 2 pumps... so basically what u have setup now.

 

[Smiki007]

35X is a PWM pump so it doesnt count.
It limits voltage sent to pump.
so if ur ddc is a pwm ddc... then its fine to mismatch.
Your D5 will do all the work.. and your pwm ddc will probably not see much usage unless ur cpu went to load.

And i assume u dont load your cpu 24/7 to make your pwm ddc load up full all the time.
Even then it still limits max voltage sent to pcb @ full.

So if ur DDC is PWM ignore my warning.


And then in your scenario i would single loop with 2 pumps... so basically what u have setup now.

I think the 35x is DDC pump and 655B is D5 pump, right?. If so it's mean I'm OK wit my loop or not.
The pics of my pumps:

MCP35X Integrated into Swiftech Radiator

MCP655B

both pumps have one 4 pin molex connector and apart one 4 pin connector, the only difference is that the 35X have two wires (one green and one blue) from 4pin connector while 655B have only blue wire. Both pump are connected via molex to the PSU and via 4 pin connector to motherboard (35x to 4pin CPU fan connector and 655b to 4 pin aditional CPU fan connector). Does this mean that I'm safe with my loop, the both pump are PWM or not.
Need help and explanation.
Thanks.

 

[aigomorla]

yes ur safe.

the green wire on the ddc is the pwm sense line.

make sure that is plugged into your motherboard pwm fan header.

 

[Smiki007]

yes ur safe.

the green wire on the ddc is the pwm sense line.

make sure that is plugged into your motherboard pwm fan header.

Phew, finally , means I can stay with one loop as shown on the sketch. Thank you for your help. :thumbsup:
PS. Both are plugged to 4pins motherboard fan's header (4 pin = PWM, Right).