Beware of the 802.11

[FLegman]

Hi,

There is finally a proof of the harmfulness of Wifi.

Resume of the findings (as the link i provide is in French):

Some Swedish school girls have made and experience with 12 plates in which they put watercress to grow.
The first group of 6 plates have been put near a wifi router and the second group in a room free of any interference (wifi that is).

With similar treatment when it comes to the daily care, they found out that the crops from the first group did not germinate at all after 6 days, contrasting with the second group.

 

[_Rick_]

et en isolant 6 autres assiettes de toute forme de radiation

:hmm:

 

[smackababy]

This reminds me of when they installed huge Wifi antennas in Africa and let some outside group monitor the findings. Of course, the tribes surrounding the antennas had more health issues "related to the Wifi", but then the installers showed they had never actually turned on the antennas in the first place.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

And this pertains to humans how? Prove it with mice then call me

 

[JackBurton]

This reminds me of when they installed huge Wifi antennas in Africa and let some outside group monitor the findings. Of course, the tribes surrounding the antennas had more health issues "related to the Wifi", but then the installers showed they had never actually turned on the antennas in the first place.

Ah, so you're saying the antennas are the actual health risk. Just as I suspected! :sneaky:

 

[FLegman]

et en isolant 6 autres assiettes de toute forme de radiation

This reminds me of when they installed huge Wifi antennas in Africa and let some outside group monitor the findings. Of course, the tribes surrounding the antennas had more health issues "related to the Wifi", but then the installers showed they had never actually turned on the antennas in the first place.

Well, this is thankfully an easy to carry out simulation. Almost everyone nowadays has at least one router in house; so there is basically only one thing left to get : some watercress crops; to have a full appreciation of the experiment.

Yet, i bet some will report back that the Grass-eating-Boa from the neighbor broke into their house (because of the irresistible watercress smell) and ruined everything.
Now they are scare for life to ever try this again. Heu Rick & Smackababy ?

 

[Ketchup]

... There is finally a proof of the harmfulness of Wifi.

This is ONE experiment. One step toward finding proof, if such a thing exists.

 

[_Rick_]

I'm still slightly baffled about reading a French article about some Danish school kids getting some Swedish award, for some bogus pseudoscience.

The watercress that was "isolated from all kinds of radiation" wouldn't have gotten light (commonly understood to be a radiation, far more brutal than a 1W 2.4GHz carrier) , and thus been unable to produce chlorophyll. So it appears to me they made a mix-up in the experimental documentation, and the watercress encased behind 2 meters of lead (to protect from cosmic radiation) was the one that, understandably didn't take seed, whereas the other grew naturally.

The emission power of most Wi-Fi APs is so low, that if you had one implanted into your brain, you still wouldn't be able to notice anything, despite the wavelength being in the band where it excites water molecules. Also, if this study wasn't performed double-blind, then it's not proving anything either...

 

[FLegman]

As i said, its very easy and cheap to carry out the experiment x time and fully appreciate the outcome.
Not even mentioning the possible variations, like boosting, when feasible, the Wifi signal or trying with other plants.

The avenue is wide open.

 

[Bateluer]

This reminds me of when they installed huge Wifi antennas in Africa and let some outside group monitor the findings. Of course, the tribes surrounding the antennas had more health issues "related to the Wifi", but then the installers showed they had never actually turned on the antennas in the first place.

They did similar with a school here in the US, where parents were protesting the school wifi was causing allergies, rashes, and other similar outbreaks in their kids. The school officials turned off the wifi APs and didn't tell the parents. There was no change in the ailments being reported.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I love how this is getting so much media attention. This experiment is so poorly controlled, I could kill myself.

I'm waiting for randomized controlled trials that establish this with a 95% confidence. This is a freaking high school project for Christ's sake. In addition, it's with PLANTS. Mammals have a much greater healing and regeneration rate. I've seen this experiment everywhere and it means just what any other high school project means - almost nothing.

 

[z1ggy]

So you're telling me I won't be able to germinante because my wifi router is right next to my bed?? oh no!

 

[colonelciller]

Failure to perform science properly results in a meaningless waste of time.
meaningless is meaningless... there is no added value to having meaningless "data" over never having performed the inproperly controlled experiment.

just what you'd expect from high school though so no worries
just what you'd expect a scientifically illiterate world to fall for... which is sad

 

[smackababy]

This experiment is so poorly controlled, I could kill myself.

I am not sure you could kill yourself with this particular experiment, no matter who poorly controlled it is. I guess it MIGHT be possible to increase the power of the Wifi to such a degree you microwave your brain or purchase a router so large you could drop it on your head and die, but I am just not really seeing it.

 

[FLegman]

The watercress that was "isolated from all kinds of radiation" wouldn't have gotten light (commonly understood to be a radiation, far more brutal than a 1W 2.4GHz carrier) , and thus been unable to produce chlorophyll. So it appears to me they made a mix-up in the experimental documentation, and the watercress encased behind 2 meters of lead (to protect from cosmic radiation) was the one that, understandably didn't take seed, whereas the other grew naturally.

The experiment for both groups have been carried out in identical conditions(minus the router). Nowhere was it stated that the failed crops where behind 2 meters of lead or any other type of concealment from Sun/radiation.

Report 1
Report 2

I love how this is getting so much media attention. This experiment is so poorly controlled, I could kill myself.

I'm waiting for randomized controlled trials that establish this with a 95% confidence. This is a freaking high school project for Christ's sake. In addition, it's with PLANTS. Mammals have a much greater healing and regeneration rate. I've seen this experiment everywhere and it means just what any other high school project means - almost nothing.

Failure to perform science properly results in a meaningless waste of time.
meaningless is meaningless... there is no added value to having meaningless "data" over never having performed the inproperly controlled experiment.

just what you'd expect from high school though so no worries
just what you'd expect a scientifically illiterate world to fall for... which is sad

These are kids that came up with an idea and they deserve congratulations and encouragement, the least.

As for the randomized control trials, some "Real" scientists in UK, Netherlands and other parts of Europe have shown a great interest in the experiment and are planning to reproduce it in their labs, according to the article.
So its only a matter of time before they come up with their own results that you can choose to bash, ignore or do whatever pleases you.

Link to the Original Danish Article for those who can "decode" the language.

 

[Ventanni]

I bet they failed to talk to the plants that didn't germinate...

(C'mon, if you have tons of plants, you know what I'm talking about! lol)

Jokes aside, I'm not convinced.

 

[FLegman]

I bet they failed to talk to the plants that didn't germinate...

They were tight lipped on that subject.
I have my theory though : they kept that info for their next Big announcement : Successfully Conversing with the passed over, plants.

Jokes aside, I'm not convinced.

Granted !
The results of the experiment are proselytism-free.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

The experiment for both groups have been carried out in identical conditions(minus the router). Nowhere was it stated that the failed crops where behind 2 meters of lead or any other type of concealment from Sun/radiation.

Report 1
Report 2

These are kids that came up with an idea and they deserve congratulations and encouragement, the least.

As for the randomized control trials, some "Real" scientists in UK, Netherlands and other parts of Europe have shown a great interest in the experiment and are planning to reproduce it in their labs, according to the article.
So its only a matter of time before they come up with their own results that you can choose to bash, ignore or do whatever pleases you.

Link to the Original Danish Article for those who can "decode" the language.

I agree they deserve encouragement, but it hardly provides any "proof" like you say it does. I've seen a ton of people post this like it's now a well established fact, when in reality, one of the kids could have simply forgotten to water the plants. It's not well controlled and thus doesn't really give us much information. I have a plant right next to my wireless router and have for years... It does just fine, unless I forget to water it. This anecdotal evidence provides just as much proof as their's does.

I'm just bothered by the fact that nobody has any knowledge on assessing quality of the information they're given. People take everything as fact when there are differing degrees of quality and rigor.

 

[FLegman]

I love how this is getting so much media attention. This experiment is so poorly controlled, I could kill myself.¹

I'm waiting for randomized controlled trials that establish this with a 95% confidence. This is a freaking high school project for Christ's sake. In addition, it's with PLANTS. Mammals have a much greater healing and regeneration rate. I've seen this experiment everywhere and it means just what any other high school project means - almost nothing.¹

I agree they deserve encouragement¹, but it hardly provides any "proof" like you say it does². I've seen a ton of people post this like it's now a well established fact, when in reality, one of the kids could have simply forgotten to water the plants. It's not well controlled and thus doesn't really give us much information. I have a plant right next to my wireless router and have for years... It does just fine, unless I forget to water it. This anecdotal evidence provides just as much proof as their's does.

I'm just bothered by the fact that nobody has any knowledge on assessing quality of the information they're given. People take everything as fact when there are differing degrees of quality and rigor‡.

¹ You best agree to disagree with yourself, it seems. As you can't possibly bash and congratulate at the same time. Well, im learning new things...

² What is relevant here is the achievement (idea, setup, conclusion...) of the students rather than what i say or how i introduced the subject. You can spend time knocking me down, but their work will remain; because it is the only thing that matters.

‡ The fact is that those kids have something started and going on.
I provided links to the original article and the related report files.
You seemed to have read it all. I thank you for benefiting from your knowledge on assessing the quality of the contents and your subsequent verdict.

 

[Kaido]

There is finally a proof of the harmfulness of Wifi.

I think I hear the bells of Saint John...

 

[mikeymikec]

Cameron: I'm dying.
Ferris: You're not dying, you just can't think of anything good to do!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

¹ You best agree to disagree with yourself, it seems. As you can't possibly bash and congratulate at the same time. Well, im learning new things...

² What is relevant here is the achievement (idea, setup, conclusion...) of the students rather than what i say or how i introduced the subject. You can spend time knocking me down, but their work will remain; because it is the only thing that matters.

‡ The fact is that those kids have something started and going on.
I provided links to the original article and the related report files.
You seemed to have read it all. I thank you for benefiting from your knowledge on assessing the quality of the contents and your subsequent verdict.

For the creativity of the experiment at these children's age, they deserve recognition. On the global front of taking it as research, it means absolutely nothing because it's not even level 5 on the pyramid of evidence. It's pretty much anecdotal. I'm not contradicting myself - I'm taking the research from multiple perspectives.

I'm not just talking about you. It was on my facebook feed about 20 times. From any individual who has a science background, it doesn't mean much. People don't understand what means something and what really doesn't. Neither do media sources. When the results come out from a case control or randomized controlled trial, then I'll be willing to take that information with much more consideration.