Bill Maher's Anti-Pharma Rant

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think Bill Maher is a clueless douche that oversimplifies complex issues. He really shouldn't be giving out his opinion, because people may actually listen to him thinking he knows what's going on.

Ah, and with this cogent and informative post, you've clearly demonstrated why we should listen to you.

Originally posted by: Fayd
"20 years ago children didn't get diabetes."

yes they did.

while i agree that some things are overdiagnosed (mental ailments), things like diabetes need to be diagnosed. and you either have it or you dont.

i dont think maher understands that.

He said "Type 2 Diabetes." Remember how we use to have Juvenile Diabetes, etc? Kids are getting Type 2 now in incredibly high numbers, whereas before it was far, far less common.

and with either tyoe of diabetes, you either have it or you dont.

if there's a massive influx of type 2, then it's indicative of a different problem than overmedication.

I watched the video. I believe he said it was indicative of eating fried coke.

 

[Codewiz]

Bill has proven he does not think rationally. He is not a science guy. He isn't a skeptic. He takes ridiculous positions that no true skeptic would take. He ignores science when it doesn't fit his worldview. A true skeptic may not like the results of what science brings into the open but we accept it nonetheless.

He doesn't understand the difference between correlation and causation. Big Pharm isn't the cause of all the illnesses but the rise of big pharm is correlated with increase in illness. You have you look for the CAUSE, not what is correlated with it. I would suggest for Bill to read a simple simple book to understand called Freakonomics. It might be to his level of reading comprehension.

So while Bill takes the same position I do on religion and other subjects, I wouldn't claim him because he isn't a skeptic. He is the worst thing to most skeptics because he gives us all a bad name.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Gibsons
A lot of this problem might go away if we could just go back to not allowing TV advertising for prescription meds.

i tend to agree

 

[moshquerade]

Didn't listen to the rant... I am of the opinion that we are a nation of drug addicts thanks to over zealous doctors getting kick backs and the pharmaceutical companies looking to make a buck.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Didn't listen to the rant... I am of the opinion that we are a nation of drug addicts thanks to over zealous doctors getting kick backs and the pharmaceutical companies looking to make a buck.

So personal responsibility is out the window?

I would argue that most of our antibiotic issues fall right on the feet of the patients. They demand antibiotics at every turn. If the doctor doesn't give them, then they will go elsewhere.

My grandfather was a doctor and he didn't just cave to patients but times have changed. People are little whiny bitches that think they know better than the doctor and demand shit. If the doctor says no then they lose a patient.

Is there no drug pushing by doctors? I am not saying that because I ran into one of those doctors BUT I would argue they are a minority. I have seen many doctors and most of them wouldn't prescribe me more than 5mg of Hydrocodone when I had an inflamed bursa in my knee. I could hardly walk. If I had whined and complained I could have gotten more but by default they didn't just give me crap I didn't need.

I do not believe doctors are the root problem. Whiny patients are.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Didn't listen to the rant... I am of the opinion that we are a nation of drug addicts thanks to over zealous doctors getting kick backs and the pharmaceutical companies looking to make a buck.

So personal responsibility is out the window?

I'd like to see more personal responsibility in everything!

I would argue that most of our antibiotic issues fall right on the feet of the patients. They demand antibiotics at every turn. If the doctor doesn't give them, then they will go elsewhere.

My grandfather was a doctor and he didn't just cave to patients but times have changed. People are little whiny bitches that think they know better than the doctor and demand shit. If the doctor says no then they lose a patient.

Can't disagree too much, except to say that docs shouldn't give a drug to a patient just because a patient wants it, slippery slope there. Also, they can thank this practice on all the drug resistant bugs that have emerged.

Is there no drug pushing by doctors? I am not saying that because I ran into one of those doctors BUT I would argue they are a minority. I have seen many doctors and most of the wouldn't prescribe more me than 5mg of Hydrocodone when I had an inflamed bursa in my knee. I could hardly walk.

I do not believe doctors are the root problem. Whiny patients are.

Well, I am saying certain kinds of drugs...newer drugs on the market especially, docs are given incentives to prescribe these. I read/update medical histories all the time. The amount of people on some kind of meds, anti-depressants especially, is amazing, and it just seems to be increasing and increasing.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Didn't listen to the rant... I am of the opinion that we are a nation of drug addicts thanks to over zealous doctors getting kick backs and the pharmaceutical companies looking to make a buck.

Actually, he had a better theory: It's because of lazy people who want a pill to fix everything rather than actually working to prevent their maladies.

He made a point at the end that exercise can cure depression and obesity and all the problems associated with obesity.

Diet and activity modification can also help with a great deal of other problems from cholesterol to hyperactivity.

The problem for doctors is this: Patients don't WANT to work for their own cures. They want an easy and quick pill.

For the OP:

Not once did he blame medicines for causing disease. He blames PEOPLE for being lazy and irresponsible with their own body's maintenance and upkeep. He blames a lack of preventative medicine.

It is not the drug company's fault for filling a demand. It is not the doctor's fault for throwing up their hands and giving up when patients will not get off their asses and modify their diet and exercise. What are they to do for people who refuse to exercise and change their diets? Let them die?

They cannot, of course... so they try to medicate them in place of the preventive measures the patients refuse to participate in.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Didn't listen to the rant... I am of the opinion that we are a nation of drug addicts thanks to over zealous doctors getting kick backs and the pharmaceutical companies looking to make a buck.

Actually, he had a better theory: It's because of lazy people who want a pill to fix everything rather than actually working to prevent their maladies.


He made a point at the end that exercise can cure depression and obesity and all the problems associated with obesity.

Diet and activity modification can also help with a great deal of other problems from cholesterol to hyperactivity.

The problem for doctors is this: Patients don't WANT to work for their own cures. They want an easy and quick pill.

well in that case, he's preaching to the choir here.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Farang
The worst I see is anti-depressants as a cure for sadness and aderall as a cure for laziness.

But what causes the laziness? If aderall cures it, why not use it?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Farang
The worst I see is anti-depressants as a cure for sadness and aderall as a cure for laziness.

But what causes the laziness? If aderall cures it, why not use it?

The laziness is caused by an overabundance of "easy solutions", a coddled lifestyle, and an overabundance of material goods, entertainment, and frivolities. The cure is proper, involved parenting (including the ability to say "no"), experiences with people from many different walks of life to gain proper perspective and to learn that (a)life is not fair and (b)it is not given to you wrapped up in a box with a bow on top.

Aderall is a treatment, not a cure. It may artificially boost someone's productivity during the period that it is being taken, but it won't make a slacker into an entrepreneur. That motivation must come from within.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Farang
The worst I see is anti-depressants as a cure for sadness and aderall as a cure for laziness.

But what causes the laziness? If aderall cures it, why not use it?

The laziness is caused by an overabundance of "easy solutions", snip

:thumbsup: One of my pet peeves. Just for grins, go to Amazon (or hell, Google) and search for "easy secrets." It seems there are more easy secrets than hard truths.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Farang
The worst I see is anti-depressants as a cure for sadness and aderall as a cure for laziness.

But what causes the laziness? If aderall cures it, why not use it?

The laziness is caused by an overabundance of "easy solutions", snip

:thumbsup: One of my pet peeves. Just for grins, go to Amazon (or hell, Google) and search for "easy secrets." It seems there are more easy secrets than hard truths.

The greatest is when they advertise EXERCISE EQUIPMENT as being "easy".

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
His anti-pharma bullshit is the only thing I don't like about his show. There are lots of problems with the pharmaceutical industry, but spinach doesn't fund cancer research. The standard of living does nothing but rise, and this asshole wants us to return to the medical stone-age. Everyone's sicker than they've ever been, yet they're living longer than they ever have?

He believes in a holistic. "natural" approach to medicine (i.e. magic). I've got some information for you, Nature wants you dead by 30, toothless by 25 and pregnant by 13.

Magic? Where exactly do you think most drugs come from? I'll give you a hint: nature.

People taking a holisitic approach to medicine would save us billions (probably trillions) of dollars on health-care every year. Western medicine is great at saving lives, but a holistic aapproach can be as effective or more effective than just popping your $200 pills all the time.

Why? Because a holistic approach takes everything into account. Diet, exercise, etc... People today eat processed, preservative laced, artificial foods. They don't exercise. Then when they inevitably get cancer, diabetes, you name it, they go to the doctor and end up having hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical care needed.

Holistic medicine won't cure cancer, but it can sure help to prevent it. Holistic medicine won't cure diabetes, but it can sure help to prevent it.

Magic? Try science.

 

[Sedition]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: Farang
The worst I see is anti-depressants as a cure for sadness and aderall as a cure for laziness.

They're prescribed because they work (in general). However, a big part of the issue is that doctors are responding to the desires of their clients, which often entails finding a pill to cure the problem.

Which they are told they need from Tv and webmd. On my clinic rounds, people have actually brought in printoffs from prescription drug ad websites and told me they need "that one". When I go to do a work up, they literally read the list of symptoms associated and say they have all of them.

There is a common situation in Medical School called First Year Hypochondriasis. That first year with all the stress and all the learning about crazy horrible diseases everyone at some point starts to convince themselves that they have something.

My good buddy during our HENNT section had himself convinced he had either throat cancer or a goiter. He really just has a normal variant that gives a fourth pyramid shaped thryoid lobe. You should have seen him freaking out. We picked on him of course, but that is only because we have all been there.
Anyway, my point is that we have started a generation of TV-Ad Hypochondriacs. We start throwing around common symptoms and ailments and by the end of the 30 sec spot people are convinced they need the pill.

People are stupid, even med students (shock) and we are easily lead on. It doesn't take much to work into our fears of illness and overall health. This ads go straight for that.



Maher was very right about the fact that usually rare diseases are suddenly becoming very mainstream and much of it has to do with medications becoming available.

Acid Reflux disease was an extremely rare condition where nerve issues cause sphcinter problems near the esophogeal junctions. Now it is commonly occuring ailment that is cured with now defunct ulcer medications. Stomach ulcers were once thought to be acid pump problems until two kiwi's proved without shadow of a doubt that it was caused by bacterial infections. Ulcer meds that inhibited pumps were now useless and common antibiotics could clear out the issue within weeks.

Surprise Surprise, the same time the Nobel Prize was awarded to them was when Acid Reflux disease was making its huge debut in American Culture. Amazing coincidence that a rare disease would make such a huge showing right around the time when the drugs that fix it had suddenly lost a huge market.

 

[Sedition]

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think Bill Maher is a clueless douche that oversimplifies complex issues. He really shouldn't be giving out his opinion, because people may actually listen to him thinking he knows what's going on.

Ah, and with this cogent and informative post, you've clearly demonstrated why we should listen to you.

Originally posted by: Fayd
"20 years ago children didn't get diabetes."

yes they did.

while i agree that some things are overdiagnosed (mental ailments), things like diabetes need to be diagnosed. and you either have it or you dont.

i dont think maher understands that.

He said "Type 2 Diabetes." Remember how we use to have Juvenile Diabetes, etc? Kids are getting Type 2 now in incredibly high numbers, whereas before it was far, far less common.

and with either tyoe of diabetes, you either have it or you dont.

if there's a massive influx of type 2, then it's indicative of a different problem than overmedication.

There are quite a few studies that have shown losing as little as 20 pounds of weight causes a complete cessation of symptoms associated with Type 2.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
pretty much lost respect for him when he went against vaccination

Wow, what an idiot.

 

[SAWYER]

he is like this because he is a Peta mouthpiece

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

He believes in a holistic. "natural" approach to medicine (i.e. magic). I've got some information for you, Nature wants you dead by 30, toothless by 25 and pregnant by 13.

Where you do you think the drugs come from? The majority are derived from compounds found in nature and then synthesized to mass produce and patent.

Your last sentence is total ignorance.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: bignateyk
Magic? Where exactly do you think most drugs come from? I'll give you a hint: nature.

This is becoming less and less true as science advances. We take our cues from nature, sure, but small molecules and designed proteins/antibodies are the wave of the future.

However, I very much agree that holistic medicine (in the sense of "eat right, exercise, and do things to reduce stress and increase your satisfaction in life") is a much better way to reduce medical problems and cure a bunch of hard-to-nail-down problems that Western medicine isn't great at. But the "accupuncture and organic linseed oil massages cured my cancer" crowd are totally nuts.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think Bill Maher is a clueless douche that oversimplifies complex issues. He really shouldn't be giving out his opinion, because people may actually listen to him thinking he knows what's going on.

Same goes for anyone else out there. Everyone does it. What makes him different?

Your implication is that I approve of everybody else out there acting like a douche except for Maher. That is a fallacious assumption; I don't care for anybody acting like a douche and giving out paranoid ignorant (in the most literal use of the word) information. One thing relative unique regarding Maher talking about medication is that for some people this could be an influence on life or death choices.

Originally posted by: Hacp
If pharm companies can't make money, where will all the nation's chemists and biologists work?

The industries take a beating, lose money and lay everybody off.

<--------- Unemployed analytical chemist downsized due to Big Pharma and Bio-Techs cutting back research dollars. I am job hunting along with maybe 10,000 of my closest colleagues.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: bignateyk
Magic? Where exactly do you think most drugs come from? I'll give you a hint: nature.

This is becoming less and less true as science advances. We take our cues from nature, sure, but small molecules and designed proteins/antibodies are the wave of the future.

However, I very much agree that holistic medicine (in the sense of "eat right, exercise, and do things to reduce stress and increase your satisfaction in life") is a much better way to reduce medical problems and cure a bunch of hard-to-nail-down problems that Western medicine isn't great at. But the "accupuncture and organic linseed oil massages cured my cancer" crowd are totally nuts.

That is not entirely accurate. "Small molecule" has effectively been the standard for Big-Pharma; most drugs that we consume are small molecules. Doing goofy things like using bacterial spores, genetically modified viruses and/or bacteria, and so forth is the new direction.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Sedition

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think Bill Maher is a clueless douche that oversimplifies complex issues. He really shouldn't be giving out his opinion, because people may actually listen to him thinking he knows what's going on.

Ah, and with this cogent and informative post, you've clearly demonstrated why we should listen to you.

Originally posted by: Fayd
"20 years ago children didn't get diabetes."

yes they did.

while i agree that some things are overdiagnosed (mental ailments), things like diabetes need to be diagnosed. and you either have it or you dont.

i dont think maher understands that.

He said "Type 2 Diabetes." Remember how we use to have Juvenile Diabetes, etc? Kids are getting Type 2 now in incredibly high numbers, whereas before it was far, far less common.

and with either tyoe of diabetes, you either have it or you dont.

if there's a massive influx of type 2, then it's indicative of a different problem than overmedication.

There are quite a few studies that have shown losing as little as 20 pounds of weight causes a complete cessation of symptoms associated with Type 2.

There are more than quite a "few" studies that show taking drugs, in addition to diet and exercise can help much more than diet and exercise can alone.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
His anti-pharma bullshit is the only thing I don't like about his show. There are lots of problems with the pharmaceutical industry, but spinach doesn't fund cancer research. The standard of living does nothing but rise, and this asshole wants us to return to the medical stone-age. Everyone's sicker than they've ever been, yet they're living longer than they ever have?

He believes in a holistic. "natural" approach to medicine (i.e. magic). I've got some information for you, Nature wants you dead by 30, toothless by 25 and pregnant by 13.

:roll:

there's a huge difference between the cessation of creating fake disorders in order to get fda funding for the creation of a new drug for said fake disorder and living in the medical stone-age.

do yourself a favor and see just how many disorders were "discovered" in the past 20 years and how many medications have been created for each.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
pretty much lost respect for him when he went against vaccination

He's against vaccination? What a complete moron.

some vaccines trigger autism and/or neurological/mitochondrial issues shortly after their use in babies.

google it.

 

[Sedition]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Sedition

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: Babbles
I think Bill Maher is a clueless douche that oversimplifies complex issues. He really shouldn't be giving out his opinion, because people may actually listen to him thinking he knows what's going on.

Ah, and with this cogent and informative post, you've clearly demonstrated why we should listen to you.

Originally posted by: Fayd
"20 years ago children didn't get diabetes."

yes they did.

while i agree that some things are overdiagnosed (mental ailments), things like diabetes need to be diagnosed. and you either have it or you dont.

i dont think maher understands that.

He said "Type 2 Diabetes." Remember how we use to have Juvenile Diabetes, etc? Kids are getting Type 2 now in incredibly high numbers, whereas before it was far, far less common.

and with either tyoe of diabetes, you either have it or you dont.

if there's a massive influx of type 2, then it's indicative of a different problem than overmedication.

There are quite a few studies that have shown losing as little as 20 pounds of weight causes a complete cessation of symptoms associated with Type 2.

There are more than quite a "few" studies that show taking drugs, in addition to diet and exercise can help much more than diet and exercise can alone.

My point was more on the comment of "you either have it or you don't". Diabetes Mell Type 1 and other forms like Insipidious are actual diseases. They have a pathological route and a pretty clear etiology. If you have them you have them or you don't. You have a hypothalmus issue or you don't. You have an immune issue or you don't. There is a pretty clear line.

Diabetes Type 2 is a little different and research is beginning to show that is is more of a blanket term that is covering a pretty wide variety of different diseases and conditions with similar presentation of symptoms.

The probably most common and well known/talked about being age-related and weight-related. In both cases for a variety of possible reasons the body becomes desensitized to insulin. Studies have shown that they both do not have to be a "have or have not disease" because with a change to good diet and exercise with weight lose you can "cure" yourself of Diabetes Type 2. Not every case because like I said there are other issues involved in different cases, BUT in the average American presentation of Diabetes Type 2, as little as 20 lbs can cease symptoms effectively ending the disease.

With that said, if your treatment method only relies on medication, then yes, it is a have or have not. Current medications DO NOT cure Diabetes Type 2. They allow the individual to survive with the disease and help to lessen the symptoms associated with it.

Let me repeat this. THERE IS NO DRUG OR MEDICATION CURE FOR DIABETES. Just like there is no cure for hypertension or heart disease or cancer that can be found in a pill. Medications allow you to live with the disease. They lessen symptoms. They keep you kicking. But they DO NOT CURE it. And in that sense, this disease is a "have or have not".

I am talking cure. You are talking pharm living. You wouldn't believe all the fun Drug stuff doctors get to deal with on a daily basis. I can't wait to start writing scripts to counter the side affects of scripts I have already written. We have gotten into an absurd cycle.

We just had a big series in Pharm about Polypharmy.
It was quite the eye opener, but what do I know... I guess more pills is the (easy) answer.