Black male graduation rates

[HumblePie]

Intelligence doesn't seem to be genetic though. I was surprised to learn that as it seemed counter intuitive but it is true.

Physical attributes (height, weight, build, etc) are certainly genetic, and hundreds of years worth of breeding slaves seems to have made many blacks physically superior to other races. You don't see many 6'4" 240lb black guys who can run like the wind from other countries. Black domination of sports is an American thing, and is the result of slavery. The athletes we "import" from other countries are rarely black. The rosters of sports teams across the globe aren't 80% black.

I will point out that American black slaves were NEVER bred. Not in the sense that some slave owner said, hrrmmm, that one looks strong so I will have him mate with that strong looking female there.

No, they are physically stronger because of the hardship they had to survive. You ever watch Roots? Basically slavers caught all they could, usually warriors from tribes, and shipped them across the Atlantic. The problem is, only the strong would live through this trip. Those not physically strong ended up dead. Then after coming to America, those not strong enough for labor were not bought. Those not bought were basically executed. For a few hundred years, it was basically only the strong that lived and thus were able to mate. Everything else got weeded out. While you were somewhat right, I wanted to point out the real reason for the black dominance in American sports.

 

[HendrixFan]

I will point out that American black slaves were NEVER bred. Not in the sense that some slave owner said, hrrmmm, that one looks strong so I will have him mate with that strong looking female there.

No, they are physically stronger because of the hardship they had to survive. You ever watch Roots? Basically slavers caught all they could, usually warriors from tribes, and shipped them across the Atlantic. The problem is, only the strong would live through this trip. Those not physically strong ended up dead. Then after coming to America, those not strong enough for labor were not bought. Those not bought were basically executed. For a few hundred years, it was basically only the strong that lived and thus were able to mate. Everything else got weeded out. While you were somewhat right, I wanted to point out the real reason for the black dominance in American sports.

I should clarify then because you are correct, the slaves that were bought were selected for size and strength. The offspring were a result of the selected group. Slave owners purchased certain slaves with the mindset that the offspring would be valuable.

 

[peonyu]

I'm surprised how often people post right after me and prove the point in my post.

And yet...East Asians still dominate as far as wealth and education goes. The poor minority argument flies out the window pretty fast once Asians are brought up. So the problem is not White people anymore, Id say the last time White people could really be blamed for 'minority' issues was in the 80's but thats long gone now.

And if you factor in Affirmitive action which DOES help a hell of alot more than most people think, there really is nothing else to blame other than the Black culture/community itself. And to expand on AA...Most jobs/colleges that factor in AA [which is alot of places], you get automatic 'bonus' points on your Application right off the bat if you checkmark the Black box for race.

So if you get 200 'free' points just for being a black person on a 1200 point maximum test...Thats one hell of an advantage.
Latinos get some AA help aswell but if you check the bonus points they recieve, its usually half of what black people get.

Of course Whites and Asians get no bonuses in Affirmitive action Colleges/Jobs on they're applications. So really if any groups should be doing bad its White people and Asians. But thats not the case. So what is the problem ? Its not racism, Asians throw that out. Its not lack of help since AA helps so much it can be seen as discriminating/racism against Whites and Asians based on they're race...So that leaves Culture.

 

[rudder]

Nutrition? Come on.

It has to do with the family structure, and the culture. All you have to do is look at the out-of-wedlock birthrates for AAs. When you only have one parent or are living with grandma, the odds of you turning out a productive member if society are low.

You are absolutely right on that second point.

And you can be wrong about nutrition. Good nutrition does play a role in being prepared to get a good education. Maslow's hierarchy of needs illustrate what conditions are required in order for someone to be able to learn. At the bottom of his pyramid are the basic needs and safety needs (comfort). In there are the physiological needs as well (i.e., not going to school hungry).

And old study but still relevant...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607827/

There are still a lot of school kids where this is the case. Even the ones that do get the proper meals still eat foods that are typically higher in fat and lower in nutrients.

related: http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2010/05/few-healthy-food-choices-in-urban-food-deserts/

 

[HendrixFan]

And yet...East Asians still dominate as far as wealth and education goes. The poor minority argument flies out the window pretty fast once Asians are brought up. So the problem is not White people anymore, Id say the last time White people could really be blamed for 'minority' issues was in the 80's but thats long gone now.

...

Of course Whites and Asians get no bonuses in Affirmitive action Colleges/Jobs on they're applications. So really if any groups should be doing bad its White people and Asians. But thats not the case. So what is the problem ? Its not racism, Asians throw that out. Its not lack of help since AA helps so much it can be seen as discriminating/racism against Whites and Asians based on they're race...So that leaves Culture.

If society and culture existed in a bubble you would be absolutely correct. The world doesn't work like that, you cannot limit things to just one variable when dealing with millions of people. There are numerous variables in play, and many of them are interconnected and help to fuel each other.

Culture is a huge factor, but who created the culture that blacks exist in today (in the US)? They were brought here as slaves, just 150 years ago they were set "free", just 50 years ago they were set "equal", though you will still find that is not the case. You can't just "free and equal" a group after that and say, "ok everything is even and square now". It is similar to rescuing an abused child from a bad home then putting him out to play with the other kids, then wondering why he doesn't seem to fit in. Even worse, the other kids know what happened to him. Blacks didn't create a culture in which there are still people alive (and in powerful positions) who remember when they couldn't drink from the same water fountain as them.

 

[Throckmorton]

I would never suggest that nutrition is unimportant, but it's only one part of the bad parenting problem. By the time kids can attend public school, they are getting a better and more balanced/nutritional breakfast and lunch than I or my friends ever did growing up. We went to a small private school that didn't have a cafeteria, so having a turkey sandwich, a bag of chips, and a juice box was about as good as things got.

As for nutrition before school age, that's on the parents. If they can't or won't even provide for their children in the womb and for the first few years of their life, why are they having children? I would not want or look forward to a day when the state is made responsible for every single fetus/person from the moment of conception to the day they die.

In other words: Parents, parents, parents. Even if the parents themselves are uneducated, I think they know that a plate of spaghetti is healthier than a McDonald's cheeseburger.

My point is that the lack of proper nutrition in the womb and early childhood can easily explain the IQ gap.

 

[Ns1]

Culture is a huge factor, but who created the culture that blacks exist in today (in the US)? They were brought here as slaves, just 150 years ago they were set "free", just 50 years ago they were set "equal", though you will still find that is not the case. You can't just "free and equal" a group after that and say, "ok everything is even and square now". It is similar to rescuing an abused child from a bad home then putting him out to play with the other kids, then wondering why he doesn't seem to fit in. Even worse, the other kids know what happened to him. Blacks didn't create a culture in which there are still people alive (and in powerful positions) who remember when they couldn't drink from the same water fountain as them.

Other immigrants suffered equally shitty fates.

See chinese immigrants and their work on the railroads + discrimination in SF
See japanese immigrants during/after WW2
See vietnamese immigrants after the vietnam war

"It is similar to rescuing an abused child from a bad home then putting him out to play with the other kids, then wondering why he doesn't seem to fit in"

It's been a few generations now, so you'd have to wonder why the kid's kid's kid's kid's kid still doesn't fit in 7 generations later.

 

[Mursilis]

If society and culture existed in a bubble you would be absolutely correct. The world doesn't work like that, you cannot limit things to just one variable when dealing with millions of people. There are numerous variables in play, and many of them are interconnected and help to fuel each other.

Culture is a huge factor, but who created the culture that blacks exist in today (in the US)? They were brought here as slaves, just 150 years ago they were set "free", just 50 years ago they were set "equal", though you will still find that is not the case. You can't just "free and equal" a group after that and say, "ok everything is even and square now". It is similar to rescuing an abused child from a bad home then putting him out to play with the other kids, then wondering why he doesn't seem to fit in. Even worse, the other kids know what happened to him. Blacks didn't create a culture in which there are still people alive (and in powerful positions) who remember when they couldn't drink from the same water fountain as them.

That argument would make more sense if negative trends like the rise in the illegitimacy rate and the decline in the graduation rate were not recent in origin.

 

[rudder]

Other immigrants suffered equally shitty fates.

See chinese immigrants and their work on the railroads + discrimination in SF
See japanese immigrants during/after WW2
See vietnamese immigrants after the vietnam war

"It is similar to rescuing an abused child from a bad home then putting him out to play with the other kids, then wondering why he doesn't seem to fit in"

It's been a few generations now, so you'd have to wonder why the kid's kid's kid's kid's kid still doesn't fit in 7 generations later.

Just look at what the parents of asian kids expect of them. Look at the discipline and ethics that are taught. Then compare that to the kids in the african american community. Bill Cosby was right... black kids today do not have any father figures... It makes it very difficult to succeed. A lot of these kids are in communities where there only father figure is in a gang.

 

[Ns1]

Just look at what the parents of asian kids expect of them. Look at the discipline and ethics that are taught. Then compare that to the kids in the african american community. Bill Cosby was right... black kids today do not have any father figures... It makes it very difficult to succeed. A lot of these kids are in communities where there only father figure is in a gang.

The funny thing is I knew asian gangsters in HS and they still did well in school.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Clinton had(has) the proverbial steel balls, and I remember that time.

Today's news story is how unemployment is extended yet again.

While it takes others doing well, to employ folks off unemployment, it's really not that hard, and the bigger thing is someone with steel balls like Clinton, standing up and saying go to work! (or trade/school, etc.)

-John

Ummmm.......it was a Republican Congress which held Clinton's feet to the fire on the issue.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

My point is that the lack of proper nutrition in the womb and early childhood can easily explain the IQ gap.

Yet prenatal care is practically free for low income mothers and food is not a issue when you have the government subsidizing your rent.

Before you throw out the "McDonalds" statement go look at the types of foods other ethnic groups buy and eat. Culture and choices matter more then you believe.

 

[Throckmorton]

Yet prenatal care is practically free for low income mothers and food is not a issue when you have the government subsidizing your rent.

Before you throw out the "McDonalds" statement go look at the types of foods other ethnic groups buy and eat. Culture and choices matter more then you believe.

I don't give a shit what food they can and can't afford. The fact is black people eat much less nutritious food than the rest of America

 

[werepossum]

The idea of a genetic IQ gap has been disproven by studies of mixed race children of black US servicemen in Europe. They're equal to their white peers.

It's really clear to me that the most significant factor aside from culture is NUTRITION. Blacks are much less well nourished than other races in this country, and nutrition is extremely important when the brain is developing in the womb and during childhood. That's hardly ever talked about because it's extremely politically incorrect. Just try to tell a family that the fast food or vegan diet they're forcing on their kids will result in lower intelligence, and they'll probably go off about "telling them how to raise their kids".

Edit: And according to this, the IQ gap is closing. Genetics can't possibly explain that. Class and education can.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E4D71631F935A25751C1A9619C8B63

I tend to agree with this. I took a buttload of IQ tests as an eighth grader, with scores anywhere from just over a hundred to roughly two hundred fifty. Any group of tests which purport to measure the same thing but in fact differ by 150 percent are largely useless. Besides that, graduating high school does not require much intelligence, merely decent tolerance to bullshit and a minimum of effort. Too many times an enterprising teacher has come into a classroom or school of failing, subprime black children and turned them around completely into high achievers for genetics to be a major player. I think cultural bias against "acting white", a lack of parental give-a-shit, innercity school systems operated as jobs programs rather than education systems, and yes, perhaps poor nutrition are the real culprits here. And generally poor parenting too many times, as I've often heard black mothers telling their children "you so stupid". If you repeatedly tell children they are stupid, then they will generally think of themselves as stupid, which is a huge barrier to not being stupid.

 

[werepossum]

I will point out that American black slaves were NEVER bred. Not in the sense that some slave owner said, hrrmmm, that one looks strong so I will have him mate with that strong looking female there.

No, they are physically stronger because of the hardship they had to survive. You ever watch Roots? Basically slavers caught all they could, usually warriors from tribes, and shipped them across the Atlantic. The problem is, only the strong would live through this trip. Those not physically strong ended up dead. Then after coming to America, those not strong enough for labor were not bought. Those not bought were basically executed. For a few hundred years, it was basically only the strong that lived and thus were able to mate. Everything else got weeded out. While you were somewhat right, I wanted to point out the real reason for the black dominance in American sports.

That's undoubtedly part of it, but it's also expectations and opportunities. If you perceive your life options as either poverty or sports, motivated kids will give 100% to sports as they do not perceive scholastics to have much value. If you can't afford an XBox but do have access to a basketball court, expect to be better at basketball than someone growing up with an XBox and plenty of new games. If your life is mostly misery except for track, your coach will have no problems getting you to practice your heart out. These things are much more prevalent among blacks than among whites.

 

[bfdd]

So when are we going to stop using hyphenated American to describe people in the USA? Black is much more descriptive and doesn't segregate them into a different group of people simply on "name" alone.

 

[Ns1]

I don't give a shit what food they can and can't afford. The fact is black people eat much less nutritious food than the rest of America

and really who's fault is that? can't hold someone's hand through every step of the process...

 

[classy]

And yet...East Asians still dominate as far as wealth and education goes. The poor minority argument flies out the window pretty fast once Asians are brought up. So the problem is not White people anymore, Id say the last time White people could really be blamed for 'minority' issues was in the 80's but thats long gone now.

And if you factor in Affirmitive action which DOES help a hell of alot more than most people think, there really is nothing else to blame other than the Black culture/community itself. And to expand on AA...Most jobs/colleges that factor in AA [which is alot of places], you get automatic 'bonus' points on your Application right off the bat if you checkmark the Black box for race.

So if you get 200 'free' points just for being a black person on a 1200 point maximum test...Thats one hell of an advantage.
Latinos get some AA help aswell but if you check the bonus points they recieve, its usually half of what black people get.

Of course Whites and Asians get no bonuses in Affirmitive action Colleges/Jobs on they're applications. So really if any groups should be doing bad its White people and Asians. But thats not the case. So what is the problem ? Its not racism, Asians throw that out. Its not lack of help since AA helps so much it can be seen as discriminating/racism against Whites and Asians based on they're race...So that leaves Culture.

Uhhhh......Unless you work for some type of large business that deals with the government or the government itself, I'll lay money right now you have never ever worked with any black person who got a job through AA. And AA has many different rules when it comes to college. A family member through marriage who is white, but has 1/8 Indian blood had several colleges say they would let her go there for free. And I get tired of the holy minority asian rants as well. More lies. They come here and are not placed in the hood, but instead get placed in white neighborhoods.

They can qualify for business loans that a black or hispanic person can only dream of. The playing field is far from equal. Middle eastern too, same thing. I seen a middle eastern chick in the acme one day and she had cute little kid with her. And she had a family first card paying for groceries. I swear truthfully about this. I was doing self checkout so I walked out at the same time. Dude she got into a brand new BMW 750. And I mean a cold black brand new 750. I sat in my little hoopity and thought to myself as I watched her drive off, that is some bs.

 

[CottonRabbit]

And AA has many different rules when it comes to college. A family member through marriage who is white, but has 1/8 Indian blood had several colleges say they would let her go there for free. And I get tired of the holy minority asian rants as well. More lies. They come here and are not placed in the hood, but instead get placed in white neighborhoods.

Patently wrong. Asians are not underrepresented minorities and are not given any advantages for undergraduate and graduate school admissions. Are you sure you don't mean 1/8th Indian as in Native American?

 

[classy]

Patently wrong. Asians are not underrepresented minorities and are not given any advantages for undergraduate and graduate school admissions. Are you sure you don't mean 1/8th Indian as in Native American?

I think you miss read. I never said asians get AA for college. And yes she is Native American. But his point that AA is somehow making a big difference in college entry is just not true. Even with AA blacks and hispanics are sorely underrepresented. Many put forth the notion AA just takes any minority and gives them something for free. That is far far from the truth.

Asians are not given the same "treatment" as other minorities. Its a fact they get far more preferential treatment than a comparable black or hispanic. Don't miss construe what I am saying here. Blacks deserve the bulk of the critism for the failures. But many people like to throw asians out as some gold standard, but the rules are not the same. If a black immigrant comes here, he is down on 15th street in some ghetto neighborhood. If a asian immigrant comes here they end up in the suburbs.

Asians do have a much better and more focused mindset. And they as whole believe in hard work and achievement. But its easy to focus on school in a decent place to live, rather than wondering if you will end up shot on the way home or if you go hungry again tonight. Those are not excuses, but for so so many just a fact of life.

 

[theevilsharpie]

It's a sad, but self inflicted and perpetual stat. Graduating High School and being an academic success gets blacks ridiculed, ostracized and made fun of by their peers and even family for "being or acting white".

Keeping it real alright, real dumb.

Black families (as well as Hispanic and, to a lesser extent, Native American families) are much more likely to be living in economically-depressed areas with few job opportunities for high school graduates. When a poor kid has a choice of making money by working, stealing, selling drugs, etc. today, or forgo years of money-making opportunities to complete high school for a potentially brighter tomorrow that may never actually materialize, dropping out doesn't seem like such a bad idea, particularly if their family is a paycheck/welfare check away from being homeless.

You want higher academic performance from underprivileged students? Have the school system pay them for results.

- Got an A on your report card this trimester, Tyrone? Here's $250.
- Qualified for the honor roll this semester, Jasmine? Good job! Here's a $500 bonus.
- Got your high school diploma, Pedro? Congratulations, here's $5,000 to help you get started in higher education or in a trade.
- Got an F, Running Bull? Sorry, you don't get shit. Better change your learning strategy if you wanna make the bucks.

Give students a reason to choose grades over gangs, and watch their academic performance skyrocket.

 

[Svnla]

Asians are not given the same "treatment" as other minorities. Its a fact they get far more preferential treatment than a comparable black or hispanic. Don't miss construe what I am saying here. Blacks deserve the bulk of the critism for the failures. But many people like to throw asians out as some gold standard, but the rules are not the same. If a black immigrant comes here, he is down on 15th street in some ghetto neighborhood. If a asian immigrant comes here they end up in the suburbs.

Asians do have a much better and more focused mindset. And they as whole believe in hard work and achievement. But its easy to focus on school in a decent place to live, rather than wondering if you will end up shot on the way home or if you go hungry again tonight. Those are not excuses, but for so so many just a fact of life.

A fact that Asians get more prefer treatment than blacks/hispanics? Links/sources of said facts or just something you pulled out of your butt, again as usual. Like the myth of Asian immigrants did not have to pay taxes? (and it was busted by your truly in another thread).

Ever wonder of "how" Asians end up in good areas/burbs? Knock up "bitches and hoes" or "get it real" via crimes and end up in prisons are not the way to go for sure.

Got shot on the way home. Ever wonder who were the perpetrators that shot other blacks? Take a wild guess. Or better yet, look at the NBC Dateline special last Sunday about the gang/shooting problems in Chicago and you will see. Link = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38579962/ns/dateline_nbc-america_now/

I am surprised that you didn't blame Bush/Republicans/whitties/racists/fill in the blank/etc. (again) in your last post.

And I get tired of the holy minority asian rants as well. More lies. They come here and are not placed in the hood, but instead get placed in white neighborhoods.

They can qualify for business loans that a black or hispanic person can only dream of.

Our family came here and were placed in a working class area. We worked hard to move to a nice area. Show me some links/sources of your "fact" that Asians were given prefer treatment in housing over blacks and hispanics.

I started my businesses with savings and business loans from a bank. Went to the same process of loan application as anyone (good credit, good job, money in the bank, etc.). Nothing was given to us free. Again, give me the links/sources of "them Asians can quality for business loans that a black or hispanic person can only dream of". Put up or shut up.

 

[Slew Foot]

Black families (as well as Hispanic and, to a lesser extent, Native American families) are much more likely to be living in economically-depressed areas with few job opportunities for high school graduates. When a poor kid has a choice of making money by working, stealing, selling drugs, etc. today, or forgo years of money-making opportunities to complete high school for a potentially brighter tomorrow that may never actually materialize, dropping out doesn't seem like such a bad idea, particularly if their family is a paycheck/welfare check away from being homeless.

You want higher academic performance from underprivileged students? Have the school system pay them for results.

- Got an A on your report card this trimester, Tyrone? Here's $250.
- Qualified for the honor roll this semester, Jasmine? Good job! Here's a $500 bonus.
- Got your high school diploma, Pedro? Congratulations, here's $5,000 to help you get started in higher education or in a trade.
- Got an F, Running Bull? Sorry, you don't get shit. Better change your learning strategy if you wanna make the bucks.

Give students a reason to choose grades over gangs, and watch their academic performance skyrocket.

Then watch their ghetto ass parents drive-by the teachers that dares give their kid a B.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Then watch their ghetto ass parents drive-by the teachers that dares give their kid a B.

Base the payment on a standardized test administered and proctored by the state. The teacher just serves as a coach and mentor that prepares them for the test.

 

[ShawnD1]

And I get tired of the holy minority asian rants as well. More lies. They come here and are not placed in the hood, but instead get placed in white neighborhoods.

Have you ever gone down to Chinatown in your city? It's a complete shit hole. At least half of the buildings would be shut down if a safety inspector ever looked at them. Chinatown usually has a much higher crime than the rest of the city. Chinese immigrants live in the Asian equivalent of a ghetto, and their kids still get educated.