Bleak Ramadan for Palestine

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Yeah, that was my point...there is something wrong with people who can't distinguish between being happy because something is good for their side and because something is bad for the other side.

Well, I guess that's what happens when you dance in the street on 9/11.

Look, I've come to accept that a lot of people don't really seem to care if we are better than the terrorists...just don't expect me to be happy about it.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You know, as much as I hate to say this, I think cutting off aid was the right decision. Funding a government that supports policies that go against what we stand for makes little sense, and this isn't like cutting off aid to Iraq, the Palestinian people had a CHOICE, and they picked Hamas.

But damn some of you guys are cold (in a sociopathic kind of way). There is a difference between thinking this was the right decision and actually being happy (or so it seems) that the Palestinians are suffering. Trust me on this, it doesn't make you look tough...

Hearing of misfortunes within the ranks of the enemy does indeed make me happy.

Yeah, that was my point...there is something wrong with people who can't distinguish between being happy because something is good for their side and because something is bad for the other side. And no, those two things are NOT the same. Most people cheered dropping the atomic bombs on Japan because it meant the end of the war, you'd be cheering because all those Japanese died...there is a big difference.

No, there is no difference. If its bad for the enemy it IS good for us. If its good for us it IS bad for the enemy. The two are not mutually exclusive as much as you'd like to think otherwise.

As for The Bomb, I'd cheer either way. Either because its bad for the enemy OR because its good for us.

 

[kylebisme]

I'm not sure what happened to that link, but here is another one.

And yeah, it is hard for such banks to remain viable when Israel sends her army out to loot them.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
And yeah, it is hard for such banks to remain viable when Israel sends her army out to loot them.

So, money changers now qualify as Financial Institution?

Is there anything you won't twist in order to support your argument?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Moneychangers != banks

Also, as been shown some (not all) of these money changing systems are used to funnell funds into terrorist organizations. The same holds tru for charities.

Lets see a link wehre a bank has been looted.

 

[kylebisme]

A bank was looted in that in that escapade, the article just doesn't bother to point it out specifically. though if you read though it you will find it does mention the fact that some banks were also looted back in 2004. As for this most recent looting, here is an article which mentions that one of the victims was a bank

 

[EagleKeeper]

The inital thrust of your article is that terrorist fund laundering establishments were targeted. It does not say that a bank was looted.

Palestinians reported at least five money changer shops and one bank were raided by the IDF, with hundreds of thousands of shekels and tens of thousands of Jordanian dinars seized.

Was the money from the moneychangers or the bank?

The Palestinians are even admitting that they are laundering funds through such places.

Aiyman Sayid from Nablus, who admitted transferring tens of thousands of dollars to wanted seniors of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, including Fadi Kafisha who was killed in recent attempts for his arrest. Sayid said the funds were sent from Hizbullah in Lebanon.

Aiyman Shachtur from Bethlehem, who admitted transferring tens of thousands of dinars to Hamas activists and outlawed Hamas associations.

The IDF is going after the terrorist fundings; it does not seem like it is taking money out of the banks as a matter of policy.

Unless you are trying to say that the average Palestinian is being hurt by using the same services as the terror groups and therefore the funds should not be touched.

The people who use the moneychangers and the banks know what those businesses are doing and apparently are willing to support it.

 

[kylebisme]

So fist you didn't even believe the Palestinians had financial institutions, and now you blame them for using them. Do you even admit they have a right to exist, or perhaps just in whatever little pigeonholed state you grant them?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
So fist you didn't even believe the Palestinians had financial institutions, and now you blame them for using them. Do you even admit they have a right to exist, or perhaps just in whatever little pigeonholed state you grant them?

I was unsure that there were Palestinian banks.

You provided information that implied that there were.

The fact that banks were being looted is the next piece of informatino that I was requesting proof of.

the only thing that you have provided is that moneychangers had their funds confiscated because of terrorist support.

An article implies that a bank may have been also targeted during the same operation. the inference is that the bank was targeted because of terrorist funding, not because it was a bank.

The quote froms from the article state that they were using the money changers for terrorist funding.

Your comment initially implied that Israel was looting the banks. In that your are correct, while ignoring the rest of the story.

Such half statements diminish the credability of your support of the Palestinians.

 

[imported_dna]

What ridicilous accusations -- they raided a bank and confiscated some money. Did the bank go out of buisiness? Did all the population suffer? Or was it only those suspected of ties to Iran and terrorism?

Why don't you stop mispresenting facts -- what you are doing is no less than lying.

If you don't know the meaning of verb looting, then I'll help you out -- New Orleans is a good recent example, and Baghdad after the US army went into Baghdad.

 

[kylebisme]

From the Ha'aretz article:

In 2004, troops raided Ramallah banks and confiscated some NIS 38 million, but Israel was unable to use the money as evidence and even considered returning it to the account owners.

That was looting then, and and regardless of how much you try to spin this spin this, Israel conducted similar looting operation just the other day.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Such half statements diminish the credability of your support of the Palestinians.

And I don't support "the Palestinians." I support both Palestinians and Israelis who want to resolve this conflict, and I oppose the policies which shamelessly perpetuate it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
From the Ha'aretz article:

In 2004, troops raided Ramallah banks and confiscated some NIS 38 million, but Israel was unable to use the money as evidence and even considered returning it to the account owners.

That was looting then, and and regardless of how much you try to spin this spin this, Israel conducted similar looting operation just the other day.

It was determined that the funds could not be used.

Were the funds returned?

Open question of the article.

ONe could state the if only considered, that they were not.
Another could say that because the funds were not able to be used, the Israle started the process to return them.

If taking funds related to terror operations is looting; then I will agree.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
That was looting then, and and regardless of how much you try to spin this spin this, Israel conducted similar looting operation just the other day.

Nah, that article does a half-assed job in explaining what was the outcome of that raid, and you are relying on that uncertainty for your entire claim of "looting".

Call this spinning all you want, but I couldn't find anything else about the 2004 raid, besides reguirgitated garbage by Reuters and Associated Press.

Whether the money was returned or not, that we do not know, and quite frankly, if the account holders were linked with terrorists, then there is no reason to return it to them, since we know very well the PA is hand in hand with the terrorists, and won't do anything to guarantee that the money isn't used to finance suicide bombings.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
From the Ha'aretz article:

In 2004, troops raided Ramallah banks and confiscated some NIS 38 million, but Israel was unable to use the money as evidence and even considered returning it to the account owners.

That was looting then, and and regardless of how much you try to spin this spin this, Israel conducted similar looting operation just the other day.

It was determined that the funds could not be used.

Were the funds returned?

Open question of the article.

ONe could state the if only considered, that they were not.
Another could say that because the funds were not able to be used, the Israle started the process to return them.

If taking funds related to terror operations is looting; then I will agree.

Would you agree to the PA raiding Israeli banks on the grounds that they are holding funds bound for extremist settlers? Or perhaps you might care to rethink your position in light of what would be an obvious double standard.

 

[imported_dna]

How many "extremist settlers" have strapped on explosives and blew themselves up in a busy market in Gaza?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: dna
How many "extremist settlers" have strapped on explosives and blew themselves up in a busy market in Gaza?

But...but...but... it's just because they can't buy the expensive weapons that Israel can!!...

 

[imported_dna]

I should also add: how many settlers launched mortar attacks? how many settlers ambushed cars and opened fire upon them with machine guns?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You know, as much as I hate to say this, I think cutting off aid was the right decision. Funding a government that supports policies that go against what we stand for makes little sense, and this isn't like cutting off aid to Iraq, the Palestinian people had a CHOICE, and they picked Hamas.

But damn some of you guys are cold (in a sociopathic kind of way). There is a difference between thinking this was the right decision and actually being happy (or so it seems) that the Palestinians are suffering. Trust me on this, it doesn't make you look tough...

Hearing of misfortunes within the ranks of the enemy does indeed make me happy.

Yeah, that was my point...there is something wrong with people who can't distinguish between being happy because something is good for their side and because something is bad for the other side. And no, those two things are NOT the same. Most people cheered dropping the atomic bombs on Japan because it meant the end of the war, you'd be cheering because all those Japanese died...there is a big difference.

No, there is no difference. If its bad for the enemy it IS good for us. If its good for us it IS bad for the enemy. The two are not mutually exclusive as much as you'd like to think otherwise.

As for The Bomb, I'd cheer either way. Either because its bad for the enemy OR because its good for us.

Of course there is a difference. You're talking about from a strategic sense, and in THAT sense you're right...things that are bad for the enemy are good for your side as a general rule. I guess my objection to the celebrating is more about intent than actions. You're a gun guy, so try this analogy on for size. Suppose someone attacks you with intent to kill or injure you and you're armed, you'll probably shoot them, right? WHY are you shooting them? Is it to defend yourself, or because you enjoy killing people you don't like? Obviously defending yourself might involve killing or seriously hurting someone else, but that is simply a byproduct of wanting to defend yourself and is (or should be) defensible. But if you just enjoy killing people you don't like, that's not really the same thing at all. My feeling lately is that some of the self-described "pro-war" folks are a little TOO pro war, the actual reason for the war is secondary to the effects of it in their minds...they LIKE being at war, especially when it's a fairly safe war for us as civilians. Maybe I'm being too hard on people, but I really get the feeling that actually fighting terrorism is kind of a lost objective here.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: dna
How many "extremist settlers" have strapped on explosives and blew themselves up in a busy market in Gaza?

But...but...but... it's just because they can't buy the expensive weapons that Israel can!!...

Of course the Palestinian militants don't have the IDF backing them up like the Israeli settlers, and they don't have people like Jack Abramoff ripping off Native American tribes to supply paramilitary equipment like the extremist settlers do either.

 

[imported_dna]

And Jack Abramoff has what to do with all this?

Oh, well, I guess we've reached that point:
Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak (Marcus Tullius Cicero)

 

[Aimster]

Israelis hate Palestinians
Palestinians hate Israelis

I dont see what people are argueing here. They are both humans and are going to the same place when we all die.. that is if you believe in heaven.

 

[imported_dna]

If everything was as simple as you make it seem, and Israeli would have hated Palestinians as much as Palestinians hate Israelis, then they'd probably would've taken measures like the ones Saddam took against the Kurds and Shiia, and then we wouldn't have that much of a problem, would we? :roll:

However, Israel is not like that, and they agreed to the Oslo process, and tried to make some progress towards peace, but, unfortunately, the Palestinians are controlled by militias and leaders that don't really care about their own people.

 

[kylebisme]

You say that as Israel continues to settle more people past the Green-Line, effectively using their own children as human shields in this land grab.

 

[imported_dna]

Look -- I've found a troll....