Blower or open design

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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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I definitely prefer a blower - the bigger the fan, the better. I also want the shroud to be as sealed as possible so as little heat escapes into the case as possible.

An open design can work but it relies too much on the case to evict the heat. That heats the case up, and makes temperature controlled fans spin faster.

Our PSUs have moved to the bottom of cases, and now have intakes right next to them. Why? So we can isolate their airflow, that’s why.

Why then would you want a 300W GPU dumping its heat into the case?

Most cases can handle it fine, and the benefits of open air cards are clear - aftermarket cards are superior for overclocking / noise purposes. As in, aftermarket cards overclock so much better than reference cards, it is not even a fair comparison really.

Perhaps for non overclockers it doesn't matter, but for those who do aftermarket cards have many benefits. With reference cards, overclocking = tons of noise and limited overclocking head room (due to poor PCB components and a bad cooler). With aftermarket cards, not so much - less noise while overclocking higher.
 
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Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
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I'm trying to figure this out for myself. I have a P183 case, which isn't really meant to be the best cooling case. I have a blower style card now (6950 Toxic) and I think I should probably stick with a blower. I was considering the 7970, but it seems like Nvidia has the crown when it come to blower style coolers on the 680, with regards to temps and sound. I just need to figure out which 680 is the best blower style card without overclocking.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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The HIS IceQ Turbo has no difficulty performing alongside the dual fan open designs.

A blower can be quiet and cool, its just uses a bigger intake fan and more larger vents.. ie. bigger cooler overall. For the same size, open designs are superior.

I would have gotten a blower type but the HIS is too damn long and fatter than 2 slot.
 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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I'm trying to figure this out for myself. I have a P183 case, which isn't really meant to be the best cooling case. I have a blower style card now (6950 Toxic) and I think I should probably stick with a blower. I was considering the 7970, but it seems like Nvidia has the crown when it come to blower style coolers on the 680, with regards to temps and sound. I just need to figure out which 680 is the best blower style card without overclocking.

Honestly, any gtx680 reference card will do just fine and from what I remember the P183 does a great job of dampening interior sound. If money is no object though, EVGA has a gtx680 with a custom blower fan on it that is very large (but it's priced as an extreme ripoff, IMO).
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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I'm trying to figure this out for myself. I have a P183 case, which isn't really meant to be the best cooling case. I have a blower style card now (6950 Toxic) and I think I should probably stick with a blower. I was considering the 7970, but it seems like Nvidia has the crown when it come to blower style coolers on the 680, with regards to temps and sound. I just need to figure out which 680 is the best blower style card without overclocking.

So your logic is you'd buy a $500 blower card and then continue with the same outdated case for say another 4-5 years, spending hundreds (or thousands of dollars) on future CPU/GPU and platform updates, while all this time suffering from louder blower fans than go out now spend $120-130 on a new modern case with good airflow and never have to use the blower fan design again?

The reason why I contributed to this thread is because I know that PC gamers neglect good case airflow. This is so typical that I am not even surprised this myth for a blower fan GPU being superior still persists to this day. PC gamers spend $100 on high end CPU coolers, $500-1000 on high-end GPUs, and then put it all in terrible case that was never designed properly to handle a high-end gaming PC, subsequently raising CPU and GPU temperatures by 10-20*C!!

For example, this is the Fractal R4 case that looks like your typical gaming case with 'good' airflow. And yet it isn't.




CPU & GPU cooling performance cannot be described by anything other than terrible. This 'modern' case which represents the typical Antec 183 style box case design, and other similar cases are not adequate to cool a modern gaming system @ quiet noise levels without raising CPU and GPU temperatures by 10-20*C. The result of using such a case combined with a blower GPU reference design is what's forcing the GPU to ramp up fan speeds to even higher speeds to maintain reasonable GPU temperatures further exacerbating the noise levels in such a system.

If a gamer has a case with good airflow, he doesn't need to enable temperature controlled fan settings in the BIOS. You can run all your fans @ low RPMs, get quiet after-market fans and still sustain amazing cooling performance and noise levels. And such a case would have no trouble at all dealing with an after-market dump of 300-500W of heat dump.




If you guys bought a modern case with good airflow, put in a 250W GPU in it, and actually tested this in the real world, you wouldn't be defending the blower GPU designs. In fact, you'd probably never buy a blower fan GPU design ever again unless limited by space constraints in Tri-SLI or similar.

When I ditched my Thermaltake Soprano case for the case in my sig, my Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz temperatures dropped 9-10*C at full load and I had one of the best air coolers at the time: Prolimatech Megahalems + Scythe S-Flex-E fan. Keep in mind the performance of the Megahalems is among the best air coolers on the market. This type of temperature drop by just swapping the case is nothing short of incredible. The result were lower temperatures and noise levels across the motherboard, CPU, hard drives and GPU.

It's pretty unfortunate to see that even in 2012 PC gamers continue to disregard how important case cooling is and instead of solving their case airflow problem, they resort to buying reference blower GPU designs when the problem is right in front of them: their case airflow!

Spending $500 each new generation on a loud reference blower to mitigate heat dump is backwards thinking when all this can can be solved with a $120-150 case upgrade and allow for superior after-market cooling that will:

1) Drop GPU temperatures;
2) Result in much quieter GPU noise levels;
3) Result in much quieter overall system levels;
4) Allow for high GPU overclocking without significant noise level penalty (especially true for DirectCUII, Gigabyte Windforce 3x, Sapphire Vapor-X, PowerColor PCS+ and similar designs).

The same applies for replacing stock Intel and AMD heatsinks with after-market ones, which is basically a must to achieve a quiet Core i5 @ 4.3-4.5ghz system.
 
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Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
23
81
Too many people are not considerate of proper airflow.

Proper airflow and ventilation isn't just a bunch of mesh vents and random fans blowing air in and out of your case. Any and every case needs to have a specific airflow path in consideration once all the parts are inside. For example, that Fractal R4 case and the big cooler + fan on the CPU in my eyes makes no real sense. It looks like the CPU fan is inducing too much of the cool air entering from the front to bypass the graphics card to the top. If it wasn't for the larger HDD cage, or even without the cage, a splitter plate sending some air up and some down could help, as well as a side fan for the graphics. Also the back vent on top doesn't do anything at all, it's just another entrance for dust. Having the single vent in the top center would decrease the pressure in the case and induce a faster mass flow (and hence more volume) through that point in front of the CPU fan, increasing effective airflow where it is needed. The front fan then could have it's air routed to the graphics card via a guide plate/vane, w/e so the graphics gets it's fix of cool air.

It's still however important to make sure that the graphics card's blower can handle the air volume that is sent to it. Too much air just creates an insulatory environment if it can't be evacuated out fast enough. In this case, leaving the expansion slots on the case open or having vent style covers might help to relieve any build up if it happens, almost like an exhaust waste gate for a turbo charger, except it's always open.
 
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Zanovar

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2011
3,446
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What are we talking here 2+,6c max gimme a break,ill take aftermarket non blowers anyday.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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The HIS IceQ Turbo has no difficulty performing alongside the dual fan open designs.

This is true, however the HIS IceQ is the only effective blower design on the market and to achieve this, the engineers had to expand the card to triple slot size in depth and in width it may not fit in many cases.




When it comes to NV's and AMD's reference blower designs, they are all inferior in execution to the HIS IceQ.

A design such as this dual-slot Asus DCUII 670 fits perfectly in 2 slots and has reasonable width.




At full load the Asus DCUII is quieter than the reference GTX670/680 cards are at idle.

GTX670 DirectCUII @ load = 25 dB

vs.

GTX680 Refrence @ idle = 28 dB
GTX670 Reference @ idle = 29 dB
GTX670 Reference @ load = 40 dB
GTX680 Reference @ load = 43 dB
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670_Direct_Cu_II/27.html
 
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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
626
126
You can select the absolute best CPU cooler, and the best aftermarket, high end GPU cooling you can get and it won't mean a damn thing if you have a cheap case with poor airflow. It's about balance, would you buy a performance oriented car but put low rolling resistance, skinny tires on it? Of course not, so why would you buy the latest and greatest CPUs and GPUs and put them in a poorly designed case? Having a cheap case greatly limits your options, plus it will potentially shorten the lifespan of everything inside of it.

A good case is about the best investment you will ever make, right up there with a good monitor. As for blower style fans, they are "good enough" designs but hardly ideal, you can easily build a quieter AND cooler system with a good case and aftermarket GPU and CPU cooler. Plus the blower fans don't last as long, simple physics the faster the fan turns, the faster it will potentially wear out.
 

Mir96TA

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2002
1,950
37
91
I like exhaust out GPU cooling system.
They need lot of improvement over open design.
Its difficult dispate heat with blower style;
due to smaller fan size.
Commonly with open design they put Larger fan; dunno why not with
blower design.
I use to have Radeon X850 Pro; it use to make Dell fan go crazy; because it was Temp controll Fan and it would raise the Temp of the whole case.
I had to sell and get X850 pro and get X850 Pro XT, even with Piple unlock, it never raise the temp of case higher.
I have use Antec Solo ........ to ...... Zalman 9 Zx cases...... when ever I use the open fan it raise the temp of the whole case.
Recently I bought Asus HD7970-DC2-3GD5! it was mother Afing Big Arse 3 slot GPU. It was quiter oppose to my reference design 7970 but case temps where 10 degree higher.
In my Zalman Zx9 I have One 140 MM at bottom, One Front 120 mm blowing in, PS using sucking air from bottom and blowing out from back.
I have one 120 mm Exahust out at Top back. I also had two 120 mm on the TOP Exhaust out.
With so many fans Asus will raise 20 degree HOTER.
Now with Reference design I have NOISER case. It equals to 4 Cisco Router 4 Switch running to gather. But case temps are no longer HOT
Usally in Winter I let the computer room window open (If I am running my Cisco Rack and Bit coin Running) and the room is nicely 22-25c
So In my books I like exhause out; however they need to PUT BIG ARise FAN so they become more efficent
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
What are we talking here 2+,6c max gimme a break,ill take aftermarket non blowers anyday.

Couldn't agree more, I really feel like the airflow issue is being over dramatized a bit. Sure, if you have a bitfenix prodigy or an antec cheese mini atx box you'll need to work on air flow...its usually not a big deal, though.
 

Rambusted

Senior member
Feb 7, 2012
210
0
0
Thanks for all the replies, RS thanks for the really detailed posts big thumbs up! I was having trouble keeping my XFX 6870 at reasonable temps, it was flying into the 80's during Serious Sam 3 and Tribes ascend. I assumed the open design on the card was to blame and was considering a blower style card. After reading through this thread I went out today and bought an Antec Nine Hundred Two and scrapped my tiny generic case. I took a lot of time with cable management, utilizing the space behind the right panel. Needless to say the temps have dropped considerably, gpuz reporting 62c in games that normally went as high 85c. It is also quiet, my sons 4870 ref blower that sits about 5 feet away from me sounds like a hairdryer compared to the 7 fans churning away in my pc.
 

hokies83

Senior member
Oct 3, 2010
837
2
76
LoL im pretty well focused on great Airflow/static pressure it is indeed the first thing i map out before i start a build.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81

I'm open to suggestions for new cases. I just bought the P183 last year when I did my latest build, because I really liked the P180 from my previous build. It does seem like my system runs a little warm:
2500k + 6950 while playing Dota 2
CPU: Cores from 30 to 40. Core 3 is always 4-5 degrees warmer than the others
GPU: 66 @ 33% fan

I like the P183 because it's very simple looking and quiet.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Thanks for all the replies, RS thanks for the really detailed posts big thumbs up! I was having trouble keeping my XFX 6870 at reasonable temps, it was flying into the 80's during Serious Sam 3 and Tribes ascend. I assumed the open design on the card was to blame and was considering a blower style card. After reading through this thread I went out today and bought an Antec Nine Hundred Two and scrapped my tiny generic case. I took a lot of time with cable management, utilizing the space behind the right panel. Needless to say the temps have dropped considerably, gpuz reporting 62c in games that normally went as high 85c. It is also quiet, my sons 4870 ref blower that sits about 5 feet away from me sounds like a hairdryer compared to the 7 fans churning away in my pc.

Wow, huge success story here. Congrats!

I owned an Antec 900 before I went mATX, and it was nothing if not well ventilated. Use the optional internal fan mount, which allows a 120mm fan to be placed right in front of the GPU, and you'll never have GPU heat problems.

All that being said, I do think there's a place for blower style fans. For smaller cases, like those I now use, or for silent cases (which the Antec 900 most certainly is not), a blower style fan will still allow for a cooler and potentially quieter overall solution and easier temperature management.

RS is assuming we all have or should have large, roomy ATX cases with multiple 140mm low-rpm fans. I for one intentionally and knowingly chose an entirely different setup, and for it a blower-style fan is absolutely appropriate.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Thanks for all the replies, RS thanks for the really detailed posts big thumbs up! I was having trouble keeping my XFX 6870 at reasonable temps, it was flying into the 80's during Serious Sam 3 and Tribes ascend. I assumed the open design on the card was to blame and was considering a blower style card. After reading through this thread I went out today and bought an Antec Nine Hundred Two and scrapped my tiny generic case. I took a lot of time with cable management, utilizing the space behind the right panel. Needless to say the temps have dropped considerably, gpuz reporting 62c in games that normally went as high 85c. It is also quiet, my sons 4870 ref blower that sits about 5 feet away from me sounds like a hairdryer compared to the 7 fans churning away in my pc.

I bow down to you my friend for taking the risk and trusting my posts, and dismissing the perpetuating blower fan design myth by getting a modern case that benefits all your system components and not just the GPU. :thumbsup:

RS is assuming we all have or should have large, roomy ATX cases with multiple 140mm low-rpm fans. I for one intentionally and knowingly chose an entirely different setup, and for it a blower-style fan is absolutely appropriate.

Not necessarily stating that you need a huge case. You can achieve excellent noise levels and temperatures with an after-market high end card in a small case, as long as it has sufficient airflow.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33695147&postcount=10

I'm open to suggestions for new cases. I just bought the P183 last year when I did my latest build, because I really liked the P180 from my previous build. It does seem like my system runs a little warm:
2500k + 6950 while playing Dota 2
CPU: Cores from 30 to 40. Core 3 is always 4-5 degrees warmer than the others
GPU: 66 @ 33% fan

I like the P183 because it's very simple looking and quiet.

Josh, if you like your case and it is quiet for your needs, you don't have to go out and buy a new case. Those temperatures you posted look good - I wouldn't call them warm. Since it doesn't appear that you overclock your CPU and GPU, I think even something like an Asus DCUII 670 would still work. In other words, if you are thinking of going out and buying a new case anyway, why not buy an after-market quiet Asus DCUII 670/680 card first and see if your case is able to dissipate the heat well enough. If it can, then you saved $ by not getting a new case (but yes you won't have the most optimal temperatures). If it cannot, you can go out and buy a new case for the future and end up with a quieter system overall. When I had my reference 6950, it sounded louder to me at 33-35% fan speed than my HD7970 does at 59-61% fan speed. That's the thing everyone's idea of quiet may be different too. The main point I made is if you do experience poor temperatures and loud noise levels, a modern case with good airflow and an after-market cooled card in combination will work well together by giving you the best of both worlds imo. If you keeping buy blower cards, you are not really addressing the noise problem at the heart.

Compare the noise levels of this card to your card/case fans. If you buy a quiet card, you may realize it's your hard drive or CPU fan or case fans that are the loudest components in your system. Right now the blower fan on the 6950 card is probably the loudest component in your case, would that be accurate?
 
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Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
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This is true, however the HIS IceQ is the only effective blower design on the market and to achieve this, the engineers had to expand the card to triple slot size in depth and in width it may not fit in many cases.




When it comes to NV's and AMD's reference blower designs, they are all inferior in execution to the HIS IceQ.

A design such as this dual-slot Asus DCUII 670 fits perfectly in 2 slots and has reasonable width.




At full load the Asus DCUII is quieter than the reference GTX670/680 cards are at idle.

GTX670 DirectCUII @ load = 25 dB

vs.

GTX680 Refrence @ idle = 28 dB
GTX670 Reference @ idle = 29 dB
GTX670 Reference @ load = 40 dB
GTX680 Reference @ load = 43 dB
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670_Direct_Cu_II/27.html

The DirectCU cooler design fails entirely when there is no free slot between cards. The blowers, while noisy, at least do not entirely fail.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
626
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RS is assuming we all have or should have large, roomy ATX cases with multiple 140mm low-rpm fans. I for one intentionally and knowingly chose an entirely different setup, and for it a blower-style fan is absolutely appropriate.
I think his point was if you have a choice, then why would you continue to use a case with questionable cooling? If your aim is to build a small form factor system, then a blower design may be all that will physically fit. In such an instance, you'd need to carefully plan and select the right components or you'll end up with a mini oven. I've built quite a few mATX systems and had a lot of fun doing it, the challenge of getting high performance in the smallest possible footprint is neat.

But if you have a choice, don't go with a small case or one with poor airflow.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
The DirectCU cooler design fails entirely when there is no free slot between cards. The blowers, while noisy, at least do not entirely fail.

This has been discussed/addressed in the thread, as one of the rare exceptions of why a blower design is a necessity in certain situations (Small motherboards such as the Asus Gene, Tri-SLI, etc.) Also, please try not to quote an entire post [*snip*]. Thanks!
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
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This has been discussed/addressed in the thread, as one of the rare exceptions of why a blower design is a necessity in certain situations (Small motherboards such as the Asus Gene, Tri-SLI, etc.) Also, please try not to quote an entire post [*snip*]. Thanks!

Speaking of "snip," being a little "snippy" there aren't you, RS?

Truth be told, there have been a great number of really interesting discussions here on the forums lately, and you have been at the center of many of them. What comes out of these discussions is a significant amount of information for system builders to ponder, even if there is no one "correct" approach.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
But if you have a choice, don't go with a small case or one with poor airflow.

There are relatively small cases with good airflow.

LIAN LI PC-V354 Aluminum SFF Case - "mATXtreme"


Sufficient length to fit a 350mm videocard.







Connect a self-enclosed watercooling kit at the front:


Works with an after-market modern GPU that dumps all the heat in:



And now the ultimate mind-blown scenario - 2 after-market GPUs: No case melting necessary.



Source

Truth be told, there have been a great number of really interesting discussions here on the forums lately, and you have been at the center of many of them. What comes out of these discussions is a significant amount of information for system builders to ponder, even if there is no one "correct" approach.

Thanks! I agree that there are multiple ways to go about building a new rig. More information just gives system builders more angles to work with when they are building their new system OR reconsider new upgrades. For example, anyone that stumbles in this thread may learn a thing or 2 about their case airflow they didn't know before. If they did, great!

I think our forum needs more of all of us sharing our experiences with new parts. For example, when you stumbled on that Samsung 30nm eco-green DDR3-1600 kit, that's the type of threads we need:

1) Fits under any large heatsink (usually a problem for Noctua NH-D14/Silver Arrow, etc.)
2) Amazing value and overclocking
3) Gamers sharing their OCing experiences with that RAM to validate real world performance characteristics.

Next thing you know, enthusiasts realized there is a way to get faster, cheaper and overclocking friendly RAM that will finally work with any after-market CPU cooler. That's a diamond!

Look at how this one member reviewed the Silver Arrow-E:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2231115

Amazing!
 
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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
626
126
There are relatively small cases with good airflow.
Really nice case, but consider the volume compared to some other mATX boxes. That LIAN LI is 50-80% larger than the average mATX case in my estimation. But a good compromise if you want something not quite so imposing. The volume of a full tower ATX is about double the LIAN LI. I would not hesitate to use that case for a single high end card, two could still work but not ideal.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Really nice case, but consider the volume compared to some other mATX boxes. That LIAN LI is 50-80% larger than the average mATX case in my estimation. But a good compromise if you want something not quite so imposing. The volume of a full tower ATX is about double the LIAN LI. I would not hesitate to use that case for a single high end card, two could still work but not ideal.

Its not about size, its about airflow and pressure.

Silverstone's mITX cases like sugo5 - 8 range are tiny but with great airflow so something like the sugo7/8 can handle a 6990.

I've seen ppl use a gtx480 in a sugo 5/6.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
A blower can be quiet and cool, its just uses a bigger intake fan and more larger vents.. ie. bigger cooler overall. For the same size, open designs are superior.

I would have gotten a blower type but the HIS is too damn long and fatter than 2 slot.

No argument. I did say that there are compromises. If you limit it to 2 slots, then open multifan designs are superior. They are likely more cost effective too.
 
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