Blu-RAY or HD DVD?

[Twinpeaksr]

The more I read the more it gets to seem like we will never have a well accepted HD Format for Movies! That irritates me being that I love movies, have my own theater, and would be very happy to get HD version of all future and some of the past ones that I have.

But we have this damn format war, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the customer will loose.

Look at the candidates:

Blu-RAY, based on reviews and what I have seen, if you get a well recorded movie, the Sounds is Incredible and if you have the equipment the video is better. You have more capacity, but if the movie fits, it really doesn't matter. You have new formats for the sound and stupid copy protection that I am sure is going to bite me. Sony backs this, but they have a poor track record (SACD, Mini Disc, Beta).

HD DVD, based on reviews and what I have seen, you get exceptional Video and a good improvement in sound, I like less of the interactive features (I want to watch the movie not book a vacation to where it was filmed!), and the players are more affordable (it is relative, still too pricy, but new technology is). Backed by Toshiba and others.

Based on what I have read, few are biting, many don't have the equipment to see a difference, A lot want to see who wins, and some just don't care.

If I had to pack I would say HD DVD, but I have a feeling that neither will win and all of these HDTV sets being sold will be wasted when it comes to movies. shame.

 

[w00t]

this is like beta-max vs VCR

 

[RebateMonger]

I would never, ever, never buy a Blu-Ray drive, because of who's behind it (Sony) and because of the grotesque anti-piracy features. Did I say NEVER? DVD forever. I want to be able to make copies of my precious disks.

 

[Slugbait]

Originally posted by: w00t
this is like beta-max vs VCR

VHS is virtually unknown in Japan...they all have Beta-Max players. The U.S. usually votes with their pocketbook, which is why VHS beat a vastly superior format on the east side of the Pacific.

Does that mean Blu-Ray is superior? I dunno...maybe, maybe not. But it's a lot like console game systems: they live and die by content. If the porn industry backs a particular format, and most movie studios also support the same format, that should play a pivotal role on which will win in the U.S. regardless of price. But we all know they will eventually follow the installed user base, so it comes right back to price again.

OK, now I'm getting a headache. Thanks a lot..

 

[bob4432]

i think sony dropped the ball with blu ray with their piss poor ps3 launch - that could have been it, but i have read that only ~200K units made it to the u.s.

 

[Twinpeaksr]

I have been seeing a lot of people upset with Sony & PS3 over Blu-Ray. An important point was brought up though, the best format will not necessarily be the winner. Personally, I thought Mini-Disc was a great technology, and would have loved to see it replace tapes, not CD's, but the market was not behind it, and CD became the standard (I know it had a late start, but it was rewritable well before CDRW was available).

On Paper Blu-ray is the way to go, but with what is available HD DVD is showing that it has the advantage for now. Too bad no one is biting, we have become smarter after going through this many times...

 

[cmdrdredd]

HD-DVD has 50% more movies available and on pre-order in the market. They were the first to support Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD. It supports 1080p despite what Sony claimed before the actual release. It's backwards compatable with DVD so the standard DVD edition of a movie can be encoded onto the same disk. The hardware is cheaper both on the consumer and the production side. The laser density is the same as a standard DVD except the format is different. HD-DVD is also more durable because Blue-Ray is burned closer to the top of the disk and is more prone to skipping or getting read errors due to a scratch. Of all the movie studios only 2 have neglected to produce any HD-DVD content and they are Disney and Fox. So much for Sony's supposed "huge lead in the studio market". This can be attributed to HD-DVD being more cost effective. All HD-DVD players are required to have internet connectivity for firmware updates.

Last but not least...HD-DVD has been using VC1 encoding for the video where Blue-Ray was using Mpeg-2 (old DVD standard) and the quality of a Blue-Ray movie is much poorer as a result. Both formats can support Mpeg4 but it looks like HD-DVD will use it first as Blue-Ray has only receintly switched to VC1. The only advantage Blue-Ray has is the media size however, this isn't much of an issue for movies. hD-DVD is 30GB on a dual layer disk.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
HD-DVD has 50% more movies available and on pre-order in the market. They were the first to support Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD. It supports 1080p despite what Sony claimed before the actual release. It's backwards compatable with DVD so the standard DVD edition of a movie can be encoded onto the same disk. The hardware is cheaper both on the consumer and the production side. The laser density is the same as a standard DVD except the format is different. HD-DVD is also more durable because Blue-Ray is burned closer to the top of the disk and is more prone to skipping or getting read errors due to a scratch. Of all the movie studios only 2 have neglected to produce any HD-DVD content and they are Disney and Fox. So much for Sony's supposed "huge lead in the studio market". This can be attributed to HD-DVD being more cost effective. All HD-DVD players are required to have internet connectivity for firmware updates.

Last but not least...HD-DVD has been using VC1 encoding for the video where Blue-Ray was using Mpeg-2 (old DVD standard) and the quality of a Blue-Ray movie is much poorer as a result. Both formats can support Mpeg4 but it looks like HD-DVD will use it first as Blue-Ray has only receintly switched to VC1. The only advantage Blue-Ray has is the media size however, this isn't much of an issue for movies. hD-DVD is 30GB on a dual layer disk.

just out of curiosity, whenever hd-dvd playes become affordable to me, or i buy a xbox360 with a hd-dvd rom, do i need a new receiver to decode Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD? or are these format backwards compatible with stuff like dts-es and dd? any good readings on these new formats?

 

[Twinpeaksr]

I think you will need a Receiver that supports HDMI v1.1(??) in order to get the HD Audio. I would recommend the Anthem AVM50!!

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
HD-DVD has 50% more movies available and on pre-order in the market. They were the first to support Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD. It supports 1080p despite what Sony claimed before the actual release. It's backwards compatable with DVD so the standard DVD edition of a movie can be encoded onto the same disk. The hardware is cheaper both on the consumer and the production side. The laser density is the same as a standard DVD except the format is different. HD-DVD is also more durable because Blue-Ray is burned closer to the top of the disk and is more prone to skipping or getting read errors due to a scratch. Of all the movie studios only 2 have neglected to produce any HD-DVD content and they are Disney and Fox. So much for Sony's supposed "huge lead in the studio market". This can be attributed to HD-DVD being more cost effective. All HD-DVD players are required to have internet connectivity for firmware updates.

Last but not least...HD-DVD has been using VC1 encoding for the video where Blue-Ray was using Mpeg-2 (old DVD standard) and the quality of a Blue-Ray movie is much poorer as a result. Both formats can support Mpeg4 but it looks like HD-DVD will use it first as Blue-Ray has only receintly switched to VC1. The only advantage Blue-Ray has is the media size however, this isn't much of an issue for movies. hD-DVD is 30GB on a dual layer disk.

just out of curiosity, whenever hd-dvd playes become affordable to me, or i buy a xbox360 with a hd-dvd rom, do i need a new receiver to decode Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD? or are these format backwards compatible with stuff like dts-es and dd? any good readings on these new formats?

HDMI v1.3 for DTS-HD Master Audio and HDMI v1.1 or better for True-HD and DTS-HD standard. If you use Optical the player will decode the audio and stream it as standard Dolby-EX. Or, with all HD-DVD players on the market you can use the 6channel analog outputs from the player to your receiver. This allows the player to decode the audio and stream each channel uncompressed to the receiver for playback. However it doesn't work for anything beyond 5.1 AFAIK. No receiver on the market actually decodes DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD, because both are backwards compatable with today's receivers. You will probably see these labels on receivers soon though.

 

[n7]

It does look like Sony is going to f*ck themselves over once again.

However, from a pure storage point of view, i'd like to see Blu-Ray stick around, since it has far greater capacity capability than HD-DVD could dream to have, which is important to me when recordable dual/triple/quad layer recordable discs become available.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
HD-DVD has 50% more movies available and on pre-order in the market. They were the first to support Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD. It supports 1080p despite what Sony claimed before the actual release. It's backwards compatable with DVD so the standard DVD edition of a movie can be encoded onto the same disk. The hardware is cheaper both on the consumer and the production side. The laser density is the same as a standard DVD except the format is different. HD-DVD is also more durable because Blue-Ray is burned closer to the top of the disk and is more prone to skipping or getting read errors due to a scratch. Of all the movie studios only 2 have neglected to produce any HD-DVD content and they are Disney and Fox. So much for Sony's supposed "huge lead in the studio market". This can be attributed to HD-DVD being more cost effective. All HD-DVD players are required to have internet connectivity for firmware updates.

Last but not least...HD-DVD has been using VC1 encoding for the video where Blue-Ray was using Mpeg-2 (old DVD standard) and the quality of a Blue-Ray movie is much poorer as a result. Both formats can support Mpeg4 but it looks like HD-DVD will use it first as Blue-Ray has only receintly switched to VC1. The only advantage Blue-Ray has is the media size however, this isn't much of an issue for movies. hD-DVD is 30GB on a dual layer disk.

just out of curiosity, whenever hd-dvd playes become affordable to me, or i buy a xbox360 with a hd-dvd rom, do i need a new receiver to decode Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD? or are these format backwards compatible with stuff like dts-es and dd? any good readings on these new formats?

HDMI v1.3 for DTS-HD Master Audio and HDMI v1.1 or better for True-HD and DTS-HD standard. If you use Optical the player will decode the audio and stream it as standard Dolby-EX. Or, with all HD-DVD players on the market you can use the 6channel analog outputs from the player to your receiver. This allows the player to decode the audio and stream each channel uncompressed to the receiver for playback. However it doesn't work for anything beyond 5.1 AFAIK. No receiver on the market actually decodes DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD, because both are backwards compatable with today's receivers. You will probably see these labels on receivers soon though.

thanks for the info. so the receivers i see now that have hdmi on them are just getting dd/dts even from the hd-dvd players? what are the new speaker recommendations? or is the audio set at a higher rate?

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Twinpeaksr
I would recommend the Anthem AVM50!!

that pre-amp costs more than my current ht setup incluing 40" 720p lcd.....by probably 2-5x...a little too extreme for me but thanks for the recommendation

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
HD-DVD has 50% more movies available and on pre-order in the market. They were the first to support Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD. It supports 1080p despite what Sony claimed before the actual release. It's backwards compatable with DVD so the standard DVD edition of a movie can be encoded onto the same disk. The hardware is cheaper both on the consumer and the production side. The laser density is the same as a standard DVD except the format is different. HD-DVD is also more durable because Blue-Ray is burned closer to the top of the disk and is more prone to skipping or getting read errors due to a scratch. Of all the movie studios only 2 have neglected to produce any HD-DVD content and they are Disney and Fox. So much for Sony's supposed "huge lead in the studio market". This can be attributed to HD-DVD being more cost effective. All HD-DVD players are required to have internet connectivity for firmware updates.

Last but not least...HD-DVD has been using VC1 encoding for the video where Blue-Ray was using Mpeg-2 (old DVD standard) and the quality of a Blue-Ray movie is much poorer as a result. Both formats can support Mpeg4 but it looks like HD-DVD will use it first as Blue-Ray has only receintly switched to VC1. The only advantage Blue-Ray has is the media size however, this isn't much of an issue for movies. hD-DVD is 30GB on a dual layer disk.

just out of curiosity, whenever hd-dvd playes become affordable to me, or i buy a xbox360 with a hd-dvd rom, do i need a new receiver to decode Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD? or are these format backwards compatible with stuff like dts-es and dd? any good readings on these new formats?

HDMI v1.3 for DTS-HD Master Audio and HDMI v1.1 or better for True-HD and DTS-HD standard. If you use Optical the player will decode the audio and stream it as standard Dolby-EX. Or, with all HD-DVD players on the market you can use the 6channel analog outputs from the player to your receiver. This allows the player to decode the audio and stream each channel uncompressed to the receiver for playback. However it doesn't work for anything beyond 5.1 AFAIK. No receiver on the market actually decodes DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD, because both are backwards compatable with today's receivers. You will probably see these labels on receivers soon though.

thanks for the info. so the receivers i see now that have hdmi on them are just getting dd/dts even from the hd-dvd players? what are the new speaker recommendations? or is the audio set at a higher rate?

They are decoding the True-HD Audio since it's backwards compatable. DTS-HD Master audio is streamed uncompressed and recoded inside the receiver to DTS-ES Neo6 formats. Does this make sense? I can only assume that some receivers from the major names will become availabe that have DTS-HD and True-HD labels on them.

Basically the audio is true to the studio master 100% and is lossless. Uncompressed audio takes about 5GB for a whole movie. It is streamed at a higher bitrate to the receiver. No new speakers or other equipment is required. If you have a Receiver with HDMI you can receive DTS-HD and True-HD today. Although I'm skeptical on DTS-HD Master Audio compatibility because it doesn't specifically list it.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
HD-DVD has 50% more movies available and on pre-order in the market. They were the first to support Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD. It supports 1080p despite what Sony claimed before the actual release. It's backwards compatable with DVD so the standard DVD edition of a movie can be encoded onto the same disk. The hardware is cheaper both on the consumer and the production side. The laser density is the same as a standard DVD except the format is different. HD-DVD is also more durable because Blue-Ray is burned closer to the top of the disk and is more prone to skipping or getting read errors due to a scratch. Of all the movie studios only 2 have neglected to produce any HD-DVD content and they are Disney and Fox. So much for Sony's supposed "huge lead in the studio market". This can be attributed to HD-DVD being more cost effective. All HD-DVD players are required to have internet connectivity for firmware updates.

Last but not least...HD-DVD has been using VC1 encoding for the video where Blue-Ray was using Mpeg-2 (old DVD standard) and the quality of a Blue-Ray movie is much poorer as a result. Both formats can support Mpeg4 but it looks like HD-DVD will use it first as Blue-Ray has only receintly switched to VC1. The only advantage Blue-Ray has is the media size however, this isn't much of an issue for movies. hD-DVD is 30GB on a dual layer disk.

just out of curiosity, whenever hd-dvd playes become affordable to me, or i buy a xbox360 with a hd-dvd rom, do i need a new receiver to decode Dolby-TrueHD Audio and DTS-HD? or are these format backwards compatible with stuff like dts-es and dd? any good readings on these new formats?

HDMI v1.3 for DTS-HD Master Audio and HDMI v1.1 or better for True-HD and DTS-HD standard. If you use Optical the player will decode the audio and stream it as standard Dolby-EX. Or, with all HD-DVD players on the market you can use the 6channel analog outputs from the player to your receiver. This allows the player to decode the audio and stream each channel uncompressed to the receiver for playback. However it doesn't work for anything beyond 5.1 AFAIK. No receiver on the market actually decodes DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD, because both are backwards compatable with today's receivers. You will probably see these labels on receivers soon though.

thanks for the info. so the receivers i see now that have hdmi on them are just getting dd/dts even from the hd-dvd players? what are the new speaker recommendations? or is the audio set at a higher rate?

They are decoding the True-HD Audio since it's backwards compatable. DTS-HD Master audio is streamed uncompressed and recoded inside the receiver to DTS-ES Neo6 formats. Does this make sense? I can only assume that some receivers from the major names will become availabe that have DTS-HD and True-HD labels on them.

Basically the audio is true to the studio master 100% and is lossless. Uncompressed audio takes about 5GB for a whole movie. It is streamed at a higher bitrate to the receiver. No new speakers or other equipment is required. If you have a Receiver with HDMI you can receive DTS-HD and True-HD today. Although I'm skeptical on DTS-HD Master Audio compatibility because it doesn't specifically list it.

thanks for the info.

recently i was watching a concert dvd of melissa etheridge and there was another audio track - i have my denon receiver set to auto so it swtiched and i think it said 96/24 2ch or something like that on the receiver. it was in stereo but so clear, kind of like going from a good metal tape to cd in difference. you could hear as each track started in the songs, as close to real life as i have ever heard - made dd and dts soundtracks sound cloudy and muddled. there was so much seperation and depth to the music it was like i got a new ht setup, but it is the same equipment. any idea to what that was?

 

[T9D]

I saw HD-DVD playing on two different screens at Fry's the other day. Looked amazing. And the players are at least somewhat reasonably priced (x-box one is exteremly well priced).

Blu-ray was no where to be found. And way more expensive anyway. The fact that Sony is behind it makes me give it a thumbs down too. If Sony gets it's way you can expect to be paying a price premium for the life of it. They will have their own special super tax on every single minute piece of bluray anything. I wish people would realize this.

 

[compressor]

You can get Blu-Ray burners at New Egg for under $600.
Couldn't find HD-DVD burners.
Sony's PS3 will help the Blu-Ray format gain acceptance.

But I agree that the DRM will be a BIG turn off for both formats.
People want to be able to back up their movies.

Hopefully Hollyweird will stop being so paranoid about Joe Beercan
backing up his movie collection.

But then again not much out of Hollyweird is worth backing up.

But in the end we will have two formats for awhile.

My 2 cents.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

I'm waiting for the pr0n industry to take a side. They're always a good indicator that a media format has been generally accepted as "mainstream."

- M4H

 

[dalearyous]

i think its funny that the such a huge turning point simply boils down to video gaming console race. xbox360 has been out for over a year and has sold relatively well. now that for a small price of $200 you can get HD-DVD drive pretty much means that will be the clear winner. sony had its chance to debunk hd-dvd drive but the ps3 launch was soo horrible and wrongly planned that its going to eat the dust. i also can see future titles not coming to ps3 mainly because gaming companies don't want to do hd-dvd and blu-ray discs. kinda like ps1 and n64 with cartridges.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: dalearyous
i also can see future titles not coming to ps3 mainly because gaming companies don't want to do hd-dvd and blu-ray discs. kinda like ps1 and n64 with cartridges.

i don't think the delivery medium is going to stop any gaming manf from making a game for both platforms, that will not be an issue. hell with pc gaming they put them out on cd and dvd...

 

[biostud]

sit tight until one is dead and enjoy regular DVD's in the meantime.

 

[dalearyous]

true, im still hunting a wii. going to enjoy that console until this stuff settles then buy one.

 

[Oyeve]

I am sure the one that costs the cheapest will win. Americans ALWAYS choose cheap over quality. Beta is much better than VHS but VHS has more time per tape so Americans chose that format even though Beta was and still is much better. MD was a great format (still is actually) but Americans were too stupid to figure out how to use it. We wanted to pop in a cassette or cd and hit "play". If it involves too many steps, Americans will shun it. Look at all the American Ipod sheep. Ipods suck quality wise but being that it is so easy to use Americans buy it by the boat load even tho there are so many better mp3/video devices out there. Im sure HD-DVD will win not because it is superior to Blue-ray, but because pissed off americans who couldnt get a PS3 will get an inferior product just to spite Sony. Actually, I hope both formats crap out. There is always something better on the way.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: compressor
You can get Blu-Ray burners at New Egg for under $600.
Couldn't find HD-DVD burners.
Sony's PS3 will help the Blu-Ray format gain acceptance.

But I agree that the DRM will be a BIG turn off for both formats.
People want to be able to back up their movies.

Hopefully Hollyweird will stop being so paranoid about Joe Beercan
backing up his movie collection.

But then again not much out of Hollyweird is worth backing up.

But in the end we will have two formats for awhile.

My 2 cents.

Even after the PS3 release HD-DVD is outselling Blue-Ray 3 to 1

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I am sure the one that costs the cheapest will win. Americans ALWAYS choose cheap over quality. Beta is much better than VHS but VHS has more time per tape so Americans chose that format even though Beta was and still is much better. MD was a great format (still is actually) but Americans were too stupid to figure out how to use it. We wanted to pop in a cassette or cd and hit "play". If it involves too many steps, Americans will shun it. Look at all the American Ipod sheep. Ipods suck quality wise but being that it is so easy to use Americans buy it by the boat load even tho there are so many better mp3/video devices out there. Im sure HD-DVD will win not because it is superior to Blue-ray, but because pissed off americans who couldnt get a PS3 will get an inferior product just to spite Sony. Actually, I hope both formats crap out. There is always something better on the way.

You're full of s***. Don't blame americans for everything you don't like. Minidisk was garbage...you could buy a spindel of CDs for the cost of only a few of them.

PS3 IS THE INFERIOR product if you bother to even try it. All games are output in 720p ONLY and the PS3 will downsample it to 480p if your TV can't support 720p. How's that for a kick in the nuts?

It's also quite obvious you have never owned an iPod so I'll ignore you and just say that you're using the american public as an excuse for every failed garbage device out there and it's not exactly fair.