~Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD~

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
Until I know the specifics of the video formats supported I can't really pick one or the other for sure. From what data is currently available, however, I'm in the Blu-Ray camp. I really, really don't like the all-but-mandatory video downscaling/obscuring if you use, say, Component video instead of HDMI + HCDP, but the storage specs clearly kick HD-DVD to the curb. Then again, if HD-DVD supports everything DVD does + more and Blu-Ray only supports a few choice resolutions then I'm going for HD-DVD. I like my burnable media formats to be flexible.

Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. HD-DVD uses the MPEG-4 codec VC-1. VC-1 does much better compression (in terms of space and quality) than MPEG-2. Blu-Ray's added space advantage is really hurt because of this. Additionally, many enthusiasts have attributed Blu-Ray's lesser picture quality in comparison to HD-DVD to the fact that Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the video downscaling. Supposedly, the movie publishers have agreed not to enforce this until 2010...possibly as late as 2012. This is part of the reason why you see the $500 PS3 without an HDMI port.

 

[Jadow]

I think I already responded awhile back, but I'll respond again, I am for HD-DVD and hope Blu Ray falls hard.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: yukichigai
Until I know the specifics of the video formats supported I can't really pick one or the other for sure. From what data is currently available, however, I'm in the Blu-Ray camp. I really, really don't like the all-but-mandatory video downscaling/obscuring if you use, say, Component video instead of HDMI + HCDP, but the storage specs clearly kick HD-DVD to the curb. Then again, if HD-DVD supports everything DVD does + more and Blu-Ray only supports a few choice resolutions then I'm going for HD-DVD. I like my burnable media formats to be flexible.

Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. HD-DVD uses the MPEG-4 codec VC-1. VC-1 does much better compression (in terms of space and quality) than MPEG-2. Blu-Ray's added space advantage is really hurt because of this. Additionally, many enthusiasts have attributed Blu-Ray's lesser picture quality in comparison to HD-DVD to the fact that Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the video downscaling. Supposedly, the movie publishers have agreed not to enforce this until 2010...possibly as late as 2012. This is part of the reason why you see the $500 PS3 without an HDMI port.

Was going to say the same thing about the media aspects of the two formats. I guess that theoretically, as a data storage medium, the Blu-Ray is superior. However, with the high failure rates of disc production I would be interested in knowing the cost per gb of each format.

I heard 2012 is the current cut-off but even then you know how that goes. By the time they get ready to turn it on we will be ready for a new technology anyway.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. HD-DVD uses the MPEG-4 codec VC-1. VC-1 does much better compression (in terms of space and quality) than MPEG-2. Blu-Ray's added space advantage is really hurt because of this.

Blu-ray supports VC-1 and MPEG4, just like HD DVD. There just aren't any movies out yet using them. I'm sure that's what you meant though, right?

Additionally, many enthusiasts have attributed Blu-Ray's lesser picture quality in comparison to HD-DVD to the fact that Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2.

And many objective people have recognized that there is good looking MPEG2 content out there, both for Blu-ray and D-VHS, that looks great.

 

[MrPickins]

My guess is that the OP is less interested in the format war, and more interested in the power of a slightly biased article to change peoples's opinion.

 

[Jassi]

I stand with regular DVDs.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Holographic discs FTW!!!!! I couldn't care less what happens to these two formats as I hope they die a firey death.

 

[PingSpike]

I don't give a sh|t one way or the other.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Queasy
Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. HD-DVD uses the MPEG-4 codec VC-1. VC-1 does much better compression (in terms of space and quality) than MPEG-2. Blu-Ray's added space advantage is really hurt because of this.

Blu-ray supports VC-1 and MPEG4, just like HD DVD. There just aren't any movies out yet using them. I'm sure that's what you meant though, right?

Hence, me saying Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. They could use VC-1 but they choose not to.

Additionally, many enthusiasts have attributed Blu-Ray's lesser picture quality in comparison to HD-DVD to the fact that Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2.

And many objective people have recognized that there is good looking MPEG2 content out there, both for Blu-ray and D-VHS, that looks great.

Same movie HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray comparisons have been showing that HD-DVD wins in the picture quality department.

Some say it is the codec. Some say it is the player.

 

[adairusmc]

I am all for HD-DVD. No one likes to back a loser (Blue-Ray)

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Hence, me saying Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. They could use VC-1 but they choose not to.

The ignorance in that comment lies in your inability to distinguish between the format and the content. The Blu-ray format supports other video codecs and movies will be out before the end of the year in something other than MPEG2.

Same movie HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray comparisons have been showing that HD-DVD wins in the picture quality department.

Some say it is the codec. Some say it is the player.

Using a few dual-release movies to judge the quality of either format is short-sighted. There are MPEG2 movies that look better than the dual-releases you mentioned. There is nothing inherently wrong with MPEG2 as a codec.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Queasy
Hence, me saying Blu-Ray uses MPEG-2 as its video codec. They could use VC-1 but they choose not to.

The ignorance in that comment lies in your inability to distinguish between the format and the content. The Blu-ray format supports other video codecs and movies will be out before the end of the year in something other than MPEG2.

I'm sorry that you have so much invested in Blu-Ray that you feel the need to call my comment ignorant when all I did was state a fact. Currently, all Blu-Ray movies are using MPEG-2. I'm well aware that Blu-Ray can use VC-1 as well but all the movies so far have been in MPEG-2.

Link to something saying that Blu-Ray movies using something other than MPEG-2 will be out by the end of this year? I haven't seen anything yet.

Same movie HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray comparisons have been showing that HD-DVD wins in the picture quality department.

Some say it is the codec. Some say it is the player.

Using a few dual-release movies to judge the quality of either format is short-sighted. There are MPEG2 movies that look better than the dual-releases you mentioned. There is nothing inherently wrong with MPEG2 as a codec.

I didn't say anything was wrong with MPEG2. I said VC-1 was a better codec. Even outside of the same movie reviews, reviews and people have been saying that HD-DVD looks better.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Queasy
I'm sorry that you have so much invested in Blu-Ray that you feel the need to call my comment ignorant when all I did was state a fact. Currently, all Blu-Ray movies are using MPEG-2. I'm well aware that Blu-Ray can use VC-1 as well but all the movies so far have been in MPEG-2.

Link to something saying that Blu-Ray movies using something other than MPEG-2 will be out by the end of this year? I haven't seen anything yet.

Available Worldwide In November, Initial Slate Targets The Early Adopter
ICE AGE: THE MELTDOWN Is First Day-and-Date Release on Blu-ray and DVD in North America, Australia and Europe

BERLIN & LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 31, 2006--Continuing its unwavering and exclusive support for the Blu-ray Disc format, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment President Worldwide Mike Dunn announced today the Studio's first wave of highly-anticipated motion pictures to debut on Blu-ray Disc (BD), which is the only high-definition packaged media platform broadly supported by the film, music, gaming, computing and consumer electronics industries. Representing more than $2 billion in box office and 90 million DVD units sold worldwide, the studio's first eight BD releases are right on target with the BD early adopter and Playstation 3 purchaser. Taking full advantage of the next generation format's high definition technology and advanced Java-based functionality, titles will be presented with the highest quality audiovisual elements including AVC (MPEG4 Compression) and HD "Lossless" Audio (select tracks) and many have unique interactive special features.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

More from the Fox press release. Notice the emphasis on BD-J, MPEG4 and even a mention of dual-layer.

• BEHIND ENEMY LINES: Marked as one of the studio's first three BD-J releases, BEHIND ENEMY LINES features DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and MPEG 4 compression. The disc also includes commentaries by Director John Moore, Editor Martin Smith, and Producers John Davis and Wyck Godfrey, as well as selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.
• FANTASTIC FOUR: Presented with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, the HDMV Blu-Ray Disc of FANTASTIC FOUR boasts commentaries by Ioan Gruffud, Jessica Alba, Chris Evans, Michael Chiklis and Julian McMahon, and selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.
• KINGDOM OF HEAVEN (Director's Cut): To accommodate the full 3 hour and 42 minute run time of Ridley Scott's Director's cut version of his epic masterpiece, KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is one of the industry's first dual-layer BD releases and is authored in HDMV presented with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio.
• KISS OF THE DRAGON: Authored in HDMV with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, KISS OF THE DRAGON includes commentaries by Chris Nash, Bridget Fonda, and Jet Li, as well as selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.
• THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN: One of the industry's most advanced BD releases, THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN is authored in BD-J with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and AVC (MPEG 4 compression) and includes commentaries by the cast and crew, a unique search index which allows the viewer to sort scenes from the movie into 72 categories ranging from actor (e.g., Shane West, Sean Connery) to character (e.g., Allan Quarterman, Agent Tom Sawyer) to locations (e.g., Paris, Venice), among others. Additional features include an interactive first person shooter game boasting 12 unique play modes, up to 99 bookmarks, an animated pop-up trivia track, and HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.
• THE OMEN (666): Authored in HDMV with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, THE OMEN (666) includes commentary by John Moore, Glenn Williamson and Dan Zimmerman, two featurettes and two extended scenes plus a BD-exclusive animated pop-up trivia track entitled "The Devil's Footnotes," which explores the history of the triple sixes (666).
• SPEED: This BD-J release boasts DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and MPEG 4 compression. Special features include commentary tracks and commentary chapter selections by Jan De Bont, Graham Yost, and Mark Gordon, as well as an animated pop-up trivia track, up to 99 bookmarks, a 56-category search index (see description on THE
• LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN) and a java game entitled, Speed: Take Down, touting six game play modes. The title also includes HD trailers for upcoming BD releases.
• THE TRANSPORTER: Authored in HDMV and presented with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, THE TRANSPORTER Blu-Ray Disc features commentaries by Actor Jason Statham and Producer Steven Chasman, in addition to host of selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.

 

[mwmorph]

HDDVD.

The data layer is 0.6mm from the surface so if it is scratched up, like a normal dvd it will function. Also you can probably resurface the disc with Disk Dr machine.

Blu Ray has 0.1mm from the surfact to store data. Sure it has a protective coating, but in the event it does scratch, you are SOL and any sort of cleaning or resurfacing will destroy all data on the disc. I'm seeing HDDVD as much more durable.

Consumers will not stand for a dvd costting $20-$30 being worthless after 1 scratch. I know I wont and most people do not keep dvds in their cases, who is kidding themselves ythat will change? All discs will get scratched up but in the event of HDDVD, you'll still have a useable disc.

 

[bennylong]

I 'd go with what the Porn industry support since I watch mostly porn

 

[Kyanzes]

From the article linked by the OP:

There is also the option of dual-layers: 46.6GB, 50GB or 54GB, which is roughly 8 hours. Currently BDA are researching 100GB and 200GB technology with 4 or 8 layers, this keeps the technology ?future proof?. Also in the works is an 8cm disc variation with a 15GB capacity, rather than the regular 12cm discs.

Future proof my ass. They promised 9/18GB DVD-+ R/RW disks to come out. Where are they? Sure you can find some DL material but they are overpriced, not mainstream. You'll see 100-200GB disks when the Sun goes out. Come on.

 

[madeupfacts]

i have no idea what this thread is about but I voted

 

[Fenixgoon]

i stnad by which one wins the war (preferably holographic data )

 

[fs5]

I hate format wars, especially since I need to buy a good dvd player in the near future.

 

[JohnAn2112]

I would hope that HD-DVD wins since I already have an Xbox 360 and all I would need is the HD-DVD addon drive.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Kyanzes

From the article linked by the OP:

There is also the option of dual-layers: 46.6GB, 50GB or 54GB, which is roughly 8 hours. Currently BDA are researching 100GB and 200GB technology with 4 or 8 layers, this keeps the technology ?future proof?. Also in the works is an 8cm disc variation with a 15GB capacity, rather than the regular 12cm discs.

Future proof my ass. They promised 9/18GB DVD-+ R/RW disks to come out. Where are they? Sure you can find some DL material but they are overpriced, not mainstream. You'll see 100-200GB disks when the Sun goes out. Come on.

yup even on tv box sets the dvds are single or dual layer, not 3 or 4 layer double sided. its just not worth the extra trouble, each layer adds more yield loss and cost. no real advantage either since the need for 8 hours on a single disc really isn't there u know. i mean is anyone outraged they have to swap discs a couple times watching a tv season? plus people like multiple discs for tv seasons and such.

 

[Deeko]

My stance: I don't care, its too expensive, by the time its affordable & readily available there will be a victor.

 

[konakona]

this might be an old article but oh well : something other than HVD

"Optware is expected to release a 200 GB disc in early June 2006, and Maxell in September 2006 with a capacity of 300 GB and transfer rate of 20 MB/s"
Its almost october now, where are those HVDs now? affordability is another one of my concerns, can anyone clue me in on that?

after all the reading I have done at various sites the whole situation seems to look more and more like rambust vs DDR. one supposedely had a theoratical (and some real world, under certain setup and specific circumstances) advantage in certain areas of technology, but the marginal improvement for substantial cost difference pertty much sealed the victory for the other. Also, the ones with the newer tech were being accused for their absurdity and unethical business practices, regardless of the veracity of those accusations in that example (i do believe sony deserves all the flak they are receving and more, however. sony = evil).

So what if the end cost to consumers for a HD movie ends up same between the two formats? that would obviously mean someone in the middle is losing (or not profiting as much). Face it, every business invovled in the manufacturing/marketting process is out there to make money, and common sense and logic says the more expensive side will likely upset the manufacturing/content business, if not the movie viewers.

I am quite weary of BD's protective layer, knowing how I still like my aging pioneer dvdrom drive for its ability to read scratched dvds/cds better than some of the other drives. while the stuff sounds great on paper, there is no telling whether it will be effective for people like me that are bound to have multiple scratches on disks. Wonder how much that adds up to the already higher cost of BD manufacturing?

Sony keeps on entertaining us by crapping on themselves and choosing to go with MPEG2 when a superior codec was available. craptastic marketting decisions? their reasoning is abriged in this. MPEG2 good enough? movie enthusiasts say otherwise. Good luck selling $1000 players to an average joe.

 

[SpunkyJones]

I just don't care yet.