Bought LCD... big let down.

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
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0
Well, I have known for a while that I need something better than my Samsung 955DF.. I run the sucker at 1280X1024X75hz and it's a little hard on the eyes... also, the screen isn't the brightest (especially compared to the Trinitron's I own)... having said all that, it's a very sharp, good monitor, especially as I got it for under $300.

I have had geek after geek tell me that I need an LCD. I spent an entire afternoon driving around stores and had a hard time finding one that was hooked up directly to a PC with a good vid card.. the majority were hooked up to those big systems that split out the video signal, and looked like crap.

The one that I found that looked like a contendor was the 17.4" Viewsonic VA800. It doesn't have DVI input, but did have dual analog inputs, and I thought I would appreciate the slightly larger 17.4" size... it also runs natively in my favorite resolution, 1280X1024.

I bought the unit and hooked it up... after having some initial problems with XP not knowing the monitors refresh rates (I loaded the Viewsonic driver, and eventually scrubbed and reloaded my GF3 drivers) I had the monitor locked in at 75hz. It looked outstanding in Windows! It was so good that you could actually see the artifacts in fonts and programs (CRT's tend to smooth these things out some)..

Second test, threw in a DVD movie (Blade)... here I was a little disappointed... although the screen has the 400:1 contrast ratio I could definitely tell that shadows and other dark areas were not as distinct.

Third test... gaming. This was the big thing I was worried about.. I knew that LCD's weren't quite "ready for prime time" when it came to gaming, but I really was hoping to get performance I could live with. For the record the screen I bought has a 50ms pixel response time and uses the new MVA technology which supposedly improves problems with motion artificats in games.

I loaded up CS at the maximum supported resolution (1280X960) in opengl... made sure that the game was set to lock in at the 75 hz frequency. Something I noticed right away was that there were a few stuck pixels... one was right near my aiming crosshair and was stuck on "aqua colored"... this was pretty annoying.

The 2nd thing that I noticed was the interpolation... the screen did a good job of interpolating the non-native 1280X960 resolution... it was pretty good looking as far as jaggies, etc. Color was somewhat OVER saturated with things looking almost cartoonish... the contrast was a real problem as shadows became somewhat in-distinct... the shadows just looked kind of blackisk instead of having the various shades I am accustomed to. The biggest problem was motion blur... I could see it right away... the LCD just couldn't keep up with the game.. .it was especially annoying when things happened quickly in the game as you could see that slight "trailing" that you will see with a laptop LCD when moving the mouse quickly. This was a big disappointment and I could tell it was affecting my gameplay.... pretty big letdown here.

I then checked out one of the strategy games I really like playing... Civ3. Civ3 runs in a native resolution of 800X600 and cannot be changed (that I know of)... the screen had a MUCH harder time interpolating the 800X600 resolution to fill the LCD panel... the fonts and icons all looked blurry and indistinct... I wouldn't have been able to play that way for more than a few minuts before it drove me nuts. I promptly boxed the display back up and took it back for a refund.

If anyone has any comments I would much appreciate them... at this point I think LCD's are a good year or two away from satisfying critics like me. I think that I am going to buy a Sony 21" CRT that I can get in the store for $599 and then pricematch with my Amex Blue down to $480. It will be about 20% larger than the 17" viewable area of either my current CRT or the LCD I tried out, plus it supports all resolutions up to at least 85hz.. (and it's completely flat)... too bad it's a 65lb monster making it unsuitable for LAN parties.
 

rippk

Junior Member
Mar 15, 2002
21
0
0
Thanks for hte info. I too am looking for a LCD ... but mainly for a secondary screen (email, websurfing, etc). I have a Mitsubishi Diamond pro 920 CRT and I tlove it! It's so crisp and bright! I think it looks better than trinitrons (but not by that much).

As to CivII, you can change the screen size to whatever you want ... but the popups and messages stay small (1024x768). But at least you get a big map that fills your screen! got this from apolylon forum:
* Ini file tweaks: The first time Civilization III is run, it will create a file called 'civilization3.ini'. The following lines can be added and allow you to tweak the game:

*KeepRes=1 - When set to 1, your desktop resolution will be what the game uses. 1024x768 screens will be centered, but you will be able to see much more of the map on one screen.
*NoSound=1 - Disables all sound in-game.
*Video Mode=1792 / Video Mode=1600 / Video Mode=1280 / Video Mode=1152 - Force screen resolution to one of these settings. *

i use hte keepres=1 tweak and it runs at same res as my desktop 1280x960. popups dont' look too small.
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
0
0
It's really a shame too, as the LCD looks so damn good in windows... I would consider a dual head solution... but what a hassle... plus, the 17" LCD runs over $800, I can get the 21" CRT (which looks damn good at the 1280 rez) for a little over half that price.

Thanks for the tip on Civ BTW.
 

Dug

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2000
3,469
6
81
gunf1ghter-
It's that particular monitor that you picked up.
I went through, I don't know how many lcd's and that model of Viewsonic was the worst.

I finally ended up with an NEC LCD1700v
It's only $650 and it is by far the best I have seen in the 17" range.
I've looked at Viewsonic, Samsung (not the top of the line one), Planar, Mag, Sony, and a couple of others I can't remember.
The only other one that I would recommend is the Samsung 171p ($900) too much for me though.

All the things you described wrong with that Viewsonic aren't apparent with the NEC.
That contrast ratio they listed for the Viewsonic is a bunch of baloney.
Notice how bad dark areas and grey show up on it.

I have not tried DVD's because I don't have a DVD player.
But games look incredible. This was the only monitor that kept me from going back to a crt.

BTW- Don't look at the NEC 1700M or 1720M- For some reason those cost more but have lower specs.
And after using it for some time now, I would never go back.

One other recommendation- If you are using XP, make sure you change to cleartype. And I personally set the font size to large.


 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
0
0
Thanks for the advice... I will see if anyone actually has that particular model in stock.... I will try anything once, but I must say that I am sceptical about getting good gaming performance on ANY flat panel, and a large CRT is looking more and more attractive to me.
 

tenoc

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2002
1,270
0
0
Any going for an LCD should get a DVI model and, of course a video card
with DVI output.

Even then, they are definitely not a gaming solution.

My Viewsonic P220f with the Radeon 8500 most definitely is!
 

Ganryu

Member
Nov 29, 2001
162
0
0
The Viewsonic LCD you described is an old and not a very good screen. If you want to play games on an LCD try one of the ones from Dell. I have a Dell 2000FP 20" flat panel which is great for most games, although it is still not as good as a CRT.
 

Dug

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2000
3,469
6
81


<< I will see if anyone actually has that particular model in stock >>


If you can't find it local just order it from Dell.
$648 shipped. They have 10% off and free shipping right now.
I believe they have both beige and black.

If you don't like it you have 30 days to send it back.
That's part of their policy.
They even send a return label to your house and pick it up.



<< Any going for an LCD should get a DVI model and, of course a video card >>


Not necessary. If the monitor is of good quality you can't tell the difference.
It's been proven time after time in blind tests using the same monitor, just switching cables.

 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
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Well, at this point I just don't feel comfortable gambling even $600 on another LCD that I might find unacceptable for gaming (and that is no larger than my current CRT). I would have to see the panel first, or at least buy it from a local store I could return it to if I wasn't happy.

The 21" Sony flat tube is looking more and more attractive as something that can hold me over for the next couple of years until flat panels "mature" a bit... it would also be nice to get a 20" viewable LCD screen for under $1000.
 

TheYetiMan

Member
Feb 5, 2002
42
0
0
I had a 19" (roughly, it was da big one) Planar here for a week, running on the DVI output of my 8500.... and Man-O-Man was it awsome ! I was even amazed at how good it did in games (played quite a bit of Q3 MOHAA and Alice on it). The color made my 19" Trinitron look sick too.

I was really amazed, and i'm really glad it's gone back to it's owner, because if i looked at it for another couple days i wuz gonna have to buy one.

I was blown away by it.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
the ONLY LCD I'd use is Apple Computer's Displays. They have no issues with games like Q3, RTCW etc.
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
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Well, I bit the bullet and ordered the new (supposedly class-leading) Samsung 171P. I will let you all know how it looks when I get it.
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
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grrrrr..... the model I ordered was supposed to be a 171p but now the site (essential computers) has changed their story and says it's the older 171s model that they have for the good price of $719... they don't have the 171p and when they do get it, it's going to cost $900.

grrrr.....

:|
 

Bingo13

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2000
1,269
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0
Run the monitor at 60hz and see if you have improvements. Remember that 60hz on an LCD is not the same as on a CRT.
 

tony710

Junior Member
Jul 26, 2001
14
0
0
I have the Samsung 170s with a gf3 ti500, when I run Nascar Racing 2002 Season in OpenGL at 1024x768x32 @85hz it looks great. I have no problems with it at all.
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
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Now you tell me!!!

Seriously though, I can't find any reviews of 17" LCD screens anywhere that list this specification. How the heck can someone know which one to order? It's really confusing.
 

Bingo13

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2000
1,269
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0


<< changing the frequency rate on an LCD will not in any way improve ghosting problems. >>



It does on my NEC 20&21" LCD panels.
 

kyle1745

Member
Nov 6, 2001
134
0
0
There are new flat panel displays on the way that are actually flat CRTs. I am work so I don't have the link, but if I can find it at home I will post it. I'm sure tehy are at least a year away, but if I remember correctly they are going to be showing up in Ford cars in the next upcoming model year. Basicaly the idea is that they look as good as a CRT, but are as flat as a LCD. I'm waiting for these...

Sorry I don't have more info to post.


Kyle
 

Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com


<< the ONLY LCD I'd use is Apple Computer's Displays. They have no issues with games like Q3, RTCW etc. >>



You couldn't be referring to their 22" LCD with 60ms(!!!) total average response time, could you?
 

JetBlack69

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2001
4,580
1
0


<< I have the Samsung 170s with a gf3 ti500, when I run Nascar Racing 2002 Season in OpenGL at 1024x768x32 @85hz it looks great. I have no problems with it at all. >>



I've got the Samsung 170T and it is great!!!!
 

JimboJones

Junior Member
Feb 4, 2002
17
0
0
I have the 170T also, and I love it! It's also pretty cool when guys in the dorm come in and say, "What a cool monitor!!" Although the performance of the monitor is a better justification of the price than being the guy with the cool lcd.
 

gunf1ghter

Golden Member
Jan 29, 2001
1,866
0
0
When I was watching a DVD on the LCD's in the store I observed that they really had a hard time with the dark scenes (even those with good contrast and brightness ratings)... what do you guys get from your Samsungs?
 
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