Budget Gaming Build Suggestion

[Phil L]

Hi all, I'm thinking of putting together a new budget build for myself after using my old rig for >3 yrs. While I can still run most games that I do play at low settings, it's showing its age on some others (slight lags for example). Here are the basic questionnaire answers, and some more details after

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Usage:
- Gaming at 1680 x 1050 resolution
- Games played: Civ5, SC2, SWTOR, WOW, other TBS games, some RPG like The Witcher 2, no FPS games

Budget - $800~$1,000 CAD before tax

Country - Canada

Brand Preference - Intel CPU and AMD GPU

Reusable Parts:
- Keyboard/Mouse
- Monitor
- Auzentech Prelude sound card
- 1 TB Caviar Black HDD

Overclocking - Yes for CPU/GPU

Timing - Within 2 weeks (before September)
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Being from Canada, I am thinking of buying mostly from NCIX, as there is one near me. Here are some parts I have in mind of,

CPU - Intel i7 3570K
CPU Cooler - Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo
Motherboard: Please suggest a board for medium OC that is also reasonably priced
RAM - 2 x 4GB - Kingston HyperX 1600MHz
PSU - Seasonic S12II 520W
SSD - Crucial M4 128GB
Case - Antec Three Hundred Two <- but feel free to suggest another
GPU - XFX Radeon HD 7770
Software - Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit
Current total without motherboard: $762.71 before tax

Please critique the build and suggest a motherboard as well. Thank you all kindly in advance.

 

[Ken g6]

Hello, Phil,

First, I realize your monitor is a little smaller than 1080p, but you could still really use a better video card. I suggest a 7850 for $220AR.

If that blows your budget, there are two options. You could either skip the SSD for now, or you could go for a slightly cheaper, non-overclocking CPU and motherboard. If you're mainly gaming, skipping the SSD won't hurt much.

As for motherboards, the prices are all different in Canada, and mostly higher. Here's a decent Gigabyte Z77 for overclocking, for $120AR. If you choose non-overclocking to save money, here's a Gigabyte B75 for $75.

 

[lehtv]

XFX 6950 2GB $235 ($205 AR) and Sapphire 6950 2GB $220 are also decent choices for the price. 6950 has the same stock performance as a 7850 but overclocks less and consumes a bit more power.

 

[mfenn]

Agree with Ken and lehtv. Even at 1680x1050, some of your titles such as TW2 and Civ5 can be fairly punishing. If you're willing to go all the way to $1000, you can fit a ~$225 GPU like the 7850.

 

[Phil L]

Thanks for the suggestion, much appreciated I do think I'll push the budget a bit more and get a 7850 too. Is there a particular brand that's preferred?

 

[Ken g6]

Generally, at least two fans on a 7850 - or any other video card - make for better overclocking. Also make sure to avoid any 1GB models - they're rare but I've seen one. Other than that, generally go for the cheapest.

 

[Phil L]

Thanks Ken, that's what I was hoping for. As for the 1GB ya, I saw an XFX one, was kind of puzzled by it. Thanks again

 

[mfenn]

Generally, at least two fans on a 7850 - or any other video card - make for better overclocking. Also make sure to avoid any 1GB models - they're rare but I've seen one. Other than that, generally go for the cheapest.

:thumbsup: This MSI Twin Frozr in particular looks good.

 

[Phil L]

Thanks for the suggestions, I've decided to go with said MSI card and other parts. Should have them within a week hopefully Thanks again for the help Ken, lehtv, and mfenn, much appreciated.

 

[mfenn]

No problem! Please let us know how the build goes.

 

[Phil L]

Will do I'll update this thread, hopefully i'll get the parts within the week.

 

[Phil L]

Quick update.

I have assembled the system, and it's working reasonably well. I have only done some mild quick OC, since I don't have the time right now to seriously work on it.

Presently, I have the CPU at 4.2 @ 1.072V. Idle temp is 28~34 C with ambiant of 20~25 C, max temp during 5 loops of Intel Burn Test at max stress is 62~68 C among the 4 cores. I am sure I can OC it further, but quick test suggests that I would have to increase the voltage quite a bit. Something down the road.

It would seem that with the MSI Twin Froz Radeon 7850, I have no voltage control. I tried MSI Afterburner, ASUS Tweak, and Sapphire Trixx. Though the latter two allowed me to adjust voltage, GPU-Z showed the voltage really isn't affected. I can lower the idle voltage from 0.825 V to 0.800 V, but the load voltage had always been 1.038. Attempt to raise the load voltage higher, however, resulted in crash as soon as I place load on it. I am not sure what is happening here. I am using Catalyst 12.8.

On the other hand, even at the default voltage setting, it is possible to OC the core and memory a bit. I can get it as high as 1050 core and 1500 ram on kombustor, though that is unstable in game. For example, in game the display would hang occasionally before Windows recovers from display driver fail. More test would be needed to see what I can run at without it being unstable. I do wish I have voltage control though. Nevertheless, even at stock or near stock the card performs well, but there is a different issue I have with it...

It seems that in game the GPU is thermally constrained. By that I mean it would try to render at as high fps as it can, but in doing so it heats up significantly and starts throttling. For example, if I run swtor without vsync, the temperature will keep climbing until it starts throttling at ~104C. While with vsync on and everything maxed the GPU temp stabilize in the 80s, with shader set lower I can even get it in the 60s, much quieter. Nevertheless, forcing vsync does not always work through CCC, and not all games have vsync setting. Is this the way it should be? I wish I can set the throttling temperature lower, since I'm getting enough performance, but I would like it be quieter and cooler.

Anyway, other than that, everything's working well, the system is quiet when not gaming and fast, quiet happy with it.

 

[mfenn]

It seems that in game the GPU is thermally constrained. By that I mean it would try to render at as high fps as it can, but in doing so it heats up significantly and starts throttling. For example, if I run swtor without vsync, the temperature will keep climbing until it starts throttling at ~104C. While with vsync on and everything maxed the GPU temp stabilize in the 80s, with shader set lower I can even get it in the 60s, much quieter. Nevertheless, forcing vsync does not always work through CCC, and not all games have vsync setting. Is this the way it should be? I wish I can set the throttling temperature lower, since I'm getting enough performance, but I would like it be quieter and cooler.

As described I wouldn't really call that throttling. Throttling is where the chip actively reduces its clock speed to something less than its nominal clock speed. That's just the normal situation of the card reaching a temperature that's hot enough relative to the environment such that the cooler is efficient enough to stabilize the temperature.

Anyway, if you want to really cause the card to start throttling, try lowering the PowerTune limit.

Oh yeah, and if the noise is bothering you at stock volts, there is really no need for voltage control, that's just going to make it louder more often.

 

[Phil L]

Hehe, it does get quite loud at 100% fan speed. Thankfully, with some tweaking in game settings and a custom fan profile, it's much much better. As for voltage, I was wondering if I could lower the voltage to reduce temp more, but alas no such option Now if I can just address the instability when OCing at stock volt, then it'd be perfect (though granted even at stock speed it's plenty fast enough for my usage)

 

[mfenn]

Hehe, it does get quite loud at 100% fan speed. Thankfully, with some tweaking in game settings and a custom fan profile, it's much much better. As for voltage, I was wondering if I could lower the voltage to reduce temp more, but alas no such option Now if I can just address the instability when OCing at stock volt, then it'd be perfect (though granted even at stock speed it's plenty fast enough for my usage)

All components have clock speed limits above which they aren't stable. This varies on a per-chip basis, so just because somebody else is able to hit certainly clocks, doesn't mean that you will be able to. The solution here is to just back off the OC until it's stable.

 

[Phil L]

Oh I know OC is not guaranteed. Anyway further tests seems to suggest it's the memory clock. I can push the core clock much higher (currently at 1050, stock is 860) but leaving the memory at stock (1200), and so far no problem in game. Do you know what speed is the RAM rated for or how I can find out?

 

[mfenn]

Yeah, that's not surprising. You generally can't OC the memory very much because AMD and NVIDIA don't build the memory themselves and thus have to buy it from somebody else. They aren't terribly inclined to spent more money for faster memory and not utilize it.

Your best bet for finding the memory speed rating is to look at the actual chips (may require partially removing the shroud) and then googling the model number.

 

[Phil L]

Well, not really sure if it was the driver or CCC or both, but I've switched to using an older version of Catalyst (12.3) and have CCC uninstalled. But so far I've been running it no problem at 1050/1450, up from 860/1200 (limit of MSI Afterburner, without using Trixx or GPU Tweak). Even passed 1hr of OCCT GPU test with no error.

Personally, I am more than happy with the speed to be honest even at stock, it was more curiosity on how GPU OC works that motivated me. Since the GPU load isn't even at 100% with vsync on with the settings/games I am on presently. Nevertheless, it is an interesting experiment and learning experience.

 

[mfenn]

Did you check to make sure that the benchmark results are better than the previous scores? It could be the case that the old drivers without CCC present are simply ignoring the clock speed commands given by the overclocking tools.

 

[Phil L]

The clock is indeed higher, and so are the score. I tested it by running kombustor bench with and without OC. Also GPU-z and MSI Afterburner both log the clock increase as well.

With 12.8 and CCC, same test did show OC clock and score gain, but the system becomes unstable in game (passes kombustor bench but I didn't run OCCT with it). I am not sure if it's CCC conflicting with Afterburner, or just 12.8 driver has some instability in it, however.