building a server?

[jaylee11]

I am building a server for someone. This is going to be my 1st server. I am looking for opinions for the components. This is going to be used in a small business. Here goes my list
1. asus or tyan dual proccessor motherboard
2. ibm 80gb deskstar hd
3. 2 xp1600 proccessor's ( I feel like this is overkill, but he wants it)
4. 52x cdrom
5. floppy
6. case w/350 watt codegen power supply
7. 32mb ddr 4xagp video card
8. 512mb of crucial ddr ecc memory
9. 10/20 travan 4mm tape backup atapi

 

[sharkeeper]

<< 32mb ddr 4xagp video card >>



Save money and find a cheap ATi RageII or something.

Unless this person is planning on playing games on this server...

Also, you may want to get a DVD rom instead of a CD. They're about the same price and you never know if you will need to load software that is on a DVD. I've run across several databases where I had the choice of seven cd's or one DVD! The DVD is much easier to load.

I'd recommend a pair of hard drives with a Promise Fastrak 100TX OR use a 20GB IDE as the boot drive and a pair of 80's to hold data using NT software mirroring.

EDIT: I didn't see you're running Dual CPU's. You may want a 400+ W power supply to feed them.

Cheers!

 

[busmaster11]

<< I am building a server for someone. This is going to be my 1st server. I am looking for opinions for the components. This is going to be used in a small business. Here goes my list
1. asus or tyan dual proccessor motherboard
2. ibm 80gb deskstar hd
3. 2 xp1600 proccessor's ( I feel like this is overkill, but he wants it)
4. 52x cdrom
5. floppy
6. case w/350 watt codegen power supply
7. 32mb ddr 4xagp video card
8. 512mb of crucial ddr ecc memory
9. 10/20 travan 4mm tape backup atapi >>



The XP processors won't be able to work in multi-processor configs. You need the Athlon MPs, which are more expensive. Make sure your chipset's the 760/761...
Don't get an IBM drive. They've had high failure rates across the board, from 75GXP to 60GXP, with a warning about the 120GXP to never use them more than 8 hours a day. LL. Check out http://www.tech-report.com/ though they seem to be down right now.

Eventually (though they've been saying this for years) most mdeia will come on DVD-ROM, and its barely more expensive than CD-rom drives. Get a Pioneer 106s-2 slot-loader from newegg for 57 bucks...

If its only going to be a server, get a Geforce2MX card. Cheap, and rock solid drivers.

 

[Sunner]

Compaq.com.
If it's for real business use, tell your friend to get a real server, that is, a server from one of the major vendors, Compaq just happens to be my choice since I think they make the best x86 servers out there, but Dell, IBM, etc work fine as well.

The day he runs into problems, he'll be happy he spent the extra money, and most likely, so will you.

Whats the server for by the way, since he feels he needs all that power?

Most people have a tendancy to go WAY overkill for servers doing stuff like web serving, fileserving, etc.

 

[jaylee11]

What about using durons with this system? Ive seen a few posts where people used those? What hard drive would you recommend for this? I am going to be out for about 2 hours. I will try to respond some more when I get back. Thanks for the help guys. I hope we can continue this conversation when I get back.

 

[RSMemphis]

The XP processors won't be able to work in multi-processor configs. You need the Athlon MPs, which are more expensive. Make sure your chipset's the 760/761...
Actually, I have yet to hear of an SMP setup that does not work with Athlon XPs...

Don't get an IBM drive. They've had high failure rates across the board, from 75GXP to 60GXP, with a warning about the 120GXP to never use them more than 8 hours a day. LL. Check out http://www.tech-report.com/ though they seem to be down right now.
For a 24/7 server, IDE is not such a good idea, anyway, in my opinion. If IDE it is, then make it a RAID 1... so that if one disk dies, the server keeps going.

 

[busmaster11]

<< The XP processors won't be able to work in multi-processor configs. You need the Athlon MPs, which are more expensive. Make sure your chipset's the 760/761...
Actually, I have yet to hear of an SMP setup that does not work with Athlon XPs... >>



You can SMP XP chips? I thought AMD disabled that. Can you show me a URL that claims otherwise? thanks.

 

[Sunner]

The XP's work in SMP, if the mobo doesn't block them.

I dont think Tyan does this, but some of the new MPX mobos do this, I believe Asus does for example.

But thats an artificial limitation, more than anything.

AMD doesn't support SMP XP's though, if you want a guarantee, MP's is what you want.

 

[Strych9]

<< The XP processors won't be able to work in multi-processor configs. You need the Athlon MPs >>

XP's run fine in SMP. Running two 1600's myself. There are sources all over the net. Search around.

 

[GrouchTheSlayer]

my reccomendation would be to use a smaller drive for your root drive and a second drive for storage and maybe programs depending if the programs store important information in their program directory. you can also speed up the server a little by putting your pagefile on the second hard disc or even both.

you also gain security potential - if someone gains access to the system and your data drive is more restricted access-wise then there's less of a chance of compromising that data.

the biggest thing though is redundancy.. if you lose one drive you don't lose everything.

 

[John]

<< You can SMP XP chips? I thought AMD disabled that. Can you show me a URL that claims otherwise? >>



I have personally sold (2) TigerMP's w/ a Thunderbird 1400 and XP1700+ cpu, and they work like a champ.

 

[RSMemphis]

<< You can SMP XP chips? I thought AMD disabled that. Can you show me a URL that claims otherwise? thanks. >>



For the Tiger MP, this is well established, so do the homework...
The Tiger MPX, so far, seems to not be able to run the XP in dual mode.

Here's a link for the MSI:
http://www.bench-house.com/motherboard/microstar/k7d_master/k7d_master_003.html

I guess the MSI is the way to go, then. (If MPX is desired)

 

[Dug]

Take Sunner's advice is my first recommendation.

Take RSMemphis' advice about running RAID1 if you are going to build with ide drives.

Or better yet just get two "whatever brand" scsi drives.

You should really find out how many clients will be conecting to the server.
A server isn't going to be doing a lot of work in a small business, the clients do.
And when the clients do need something from the server- its the hard drives and ram that make the difference.
As is your network topology.

You would be amazed at how little processing power you need.
Although the cost difference between a good dually board and a single board isn't that much.
But it would be better spent in the hd department

A 32mb agp video card is a waste.

 

[RSMemphis]

Take Sunner's advice is my first recommendation.
I highly second a professionally built option as well...

Or better yet just get two "whatever brand" scsi drives.
Those can be had rather cheaply these days.
SCSI harddisks

You should really find out how many clients will be conecting to the server.
How true. HDs and RAM are so much more important than processing power. Especially when the operating system is Linux/*BSD
On a 100MBit network, it is hard to tax a Pentium III (~1 Ghz) or Athlon XP system hard enough. Due to the lack of floating point power on the Pentium IV, I typically stay away from them for servers... (Encryption)

Listen to this man, he knows what he is talking about.

Oh, one last thing: Travan's have a really bad rep. concerning data integrity of backups.

 

[BuckleDownBen]

Actually, a small number of XPs don't work in SMP. There is a lengthy thread about this over on the 2cpu.com forums.

Also, its hard to imagine a server that needs dual processors but doesn't need SCSI. Like a previous poster said, if its just going to be serving up files, MPX is way overkill.

 

[jaylee11]

This server is going to be in a small bussiness where there will be not more than 6 people accessing it. The vid card reccomendations makes sense. If I went with a single processor, even a xp2000 or something equivalent, and took the extra money and used it for the memory and an scsi hard drive, that is more what I'm used to building. Do all of you feel like this would be more stable and skip some of the problems with dual proccessor system? I could just placate him with the higher speed proccessor. I realize he dosn't really need it, but appeasment counts. I am truly thankful for all the feedback, this is going to be our first commercial deal and I realize we are going to catch some problems. But you have to start somewhere.


THIS FORUM RULES! I HAVE LEARNED MORE HERE THAN THE WHOLE 7 YEARS I'VE BEEN MARRIED!

 

[jaylee11]

I have one more thing that I need help understanding. An ata 100 hard drive usually runs at 7200rpm, and a scsi hard drive runs at 10,000. However, the scsi cost about 3 times as much when you add in the controller card. Is it worth the difference or am I missing something? Once again, thanks guys.

 

[BuckleDownBen]

Well, SCSI has advantages other than RPM rate. You get a 5 year warranty as opposed to 3, the seek times are much lower, and they don't utilize the CPU near as much. If I were you, I'd go the safe route and go with an Intel chip. No one has ever been faulted with choosing Intel over AMD, but if the slightest, most irrelevant thing goes wrong with the server you build, there will be plenty of idiots saying it's because AMD isn't stable enugh or something. That said, were you given a budget to work with? That would dictate what your best options are. You said 6 people were going to access the server. Are they just going to use it as a place to store their files so they will be backed up every night? Are there going to be any custom applications run on it, or an e-mail server, or anything like that? If not, I'd say you'd be best off with a Pentium 4 Northwood and that big Western Digital drive with the 8 meg cache. You'd save the client some money and you'd have real good reliability.

 

[jaylee11]

the western digital drive you talk about, is it scsi or ide?

 

[Windogg]

Wilth just 6 people dual CPUs are a waste. Unless it is going to be a database server or used to develop dynamic web content, a single CPU should be core than enough now. Add a second CPU as needed. I have always liked mobos based on the ServerWorks ServerSet LEIII for small businesses. They are rock solid and proven for use in small LANs. They are dual Socket370 and require Registered ECC memory. A requirement IMHO. The boards based on the ServerSet LEIII usually include onboard ATI Rage Video, a 10/100 ethernet adapter, and U160 SCSI (optional).

Get a real server case that can support redundant howswappable power supplies if possible. A 250w power supplk might be sufficient for home use but always overplan in a server. Hot swappable power supplies ensure that the server will run even if the power supply dies. Good server cases also have addons that include hotswappable drive bays, modular fans, better cooling, and room to grow.

The reson you should NOT go with IDE RAID for the most part is because of the controller. Despite what it looks like, it is not a hardware device. The CPU still take the load on doing the calculations required to store the data. The load can be as high as 60%+ CPU usage under intense data transfers. SCSI RAID1 is the absolute bare minimum that should be considered for a server. If possible go with RAID5. There are more and more true hardware IDE RAID controllers available. I personally use the Adaptec 2400A at home. It has all the features of its SCSI brothers such as a dedicated RISC processor and the ability to upgrade its cache memory upto 128MB. If you go IDE, don't consider any IBM drives. Especially now that IBM had put a limitation on how the drives can and should be used.

It is good you are considering back up. Not only should be have the hardware, but a sound plan. Look into when full backups will be done and who is responsible for tapes. Where will they be stored and are there plans to store them off site. Will differential or incremental back ups be used during the week?

Also get the biggest stinkin quality UPS. Not only will it absorb the usual shocks surges but it will help eliminate sags and dips. In the event of a power outage it will keep the server up. Under extended outages it will gracefully down the server and properly shutdown applications and services.

Carefully select the NOS that you use. There are too many misconfigured and unsecured MS and *nix servers out there that are time bombs waiting to go off. Know what you are doing or have the advice of someone who does. Remembed, have a silly title like MCSE means nothing. Check several sources to make sure things are done properly or you are in for a world of hurt later.

The server is not the most powerful system on the network. It is the most stable and resource rich system that is there to support background service that are used by the LAN. That means you cut down on the glitz and glamor of the latest and greatest and concentrate on proven and reliable parts. Sure it might look pretty but and people will have lots of time admiring it when its not working properly. Call me old fashioned but I like what has been proven to work 24/7/365 even if the technology is one or two years old.

Listen to Sunner on his suggestion to get a Compaq. Despite what people think about their desktops, their servers are truly solid and are great in a business environment. Dell also has some great deals on servers. Look into those. Remember the responsibility on your shoulders. There is a reason servers are usually expensive and that is due to the support available when something does go horribly wrong.

Good luck.