Burn-in works!

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: JustStarting
what I'd like to see is after you get where you want to be, remove the HSF, clean the old paste off the IHS and HSF, re-apply TIM of your choice and see if it still works after reseating the HSF

LOL anyone care to try?

I want to see too. In any case, whether the proc is getting burned in, or the thermal paste is getting super burned in, the results are great.

 

[Vegitto]

Okay. My memory will get here tomorrow or the day after. I'll reseat my HSF, then . Okay?

 

[JustStarting]

I expect results will start somewhere marginally better than the original NIB starting point- for one reason only...... the TIM under the IHS has now been cured, and all you have to do now is cure the AS5 or whatever you use on your HSF for a TIM. If somehow you could take of the IHS and use AMD's garbage to reseat the IHS you'd be right back where you started out of the box.

What AMD uses under the IHS looks like modeling clay.... it takes quite a while for that to really cure, and my guess is that is what is really happening here. You will probably be actually very close to your endpoint in terms of OC, but temps will take a few days to reach their best.

There is no magic happening here folks...... it's just curing the TIM (under, and on top of the IHS)

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: JustStarting
I expect results will start somewhere marginally better than the original NIB starting point- for one reason only...... the TIM under the IHS has now been cured, and all you have to do now is cure the AS5 or whatever you use on your HSF for a TIM. If somehow you could take of the IHS and use AMD's garbage to reseat the IHS you'd be right back where you started out of the box.

What AMD uses under the IHS looks like modeling clay.... it takes quite a while for that to really cure, and my guess is that is what is really happening here. You will probably be actually very close to your endpoint in terms of OC, but temps will take a few days to reach their best.

There is no magic happening here folks...... it's just curing the TIM (under, and on top of the IHS)

I understand people reporting Burn in works..but the the engineers(who I beleive...not the guy who satyed in a Holiday INN Express..LOL)..say it does nothing

I do you need to go back and see if I can lower my vcore but pretty sure I cant....as I ran multiple runs of long prime 95...10-15hrs at least 8-10 times

 

[Zap]

Maybe I should try this on my Opteron 144 that can only OC to about 2.3GHz and my Sempron 2600+ that I want to run really low voltage (so far down to 1.15v or so stable, stock clock). If it doesn't work, no harm done. I use Arctic Alumina and I don't think that compound needs to "cure" so we'll see if my already-tested limits improve. I'll probably start working on the Opteron soon. The Sempron is currently homeless.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Since Andy isn't here anymore, I'll do the honors You've been FAQed!

 

[furballi]

Burn-in is a form of thermal stressing the electronics. A few devices may benefits, but most will not. Please re-post all positive/negative results.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Since Andy isn't here anymore, I'll do the honors You've been FAQed!

Why did Andy leave ??

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Since Andy isn't here anymore, I'll do the honors You've been FAQed!

Why did Andy leave ??

Honestly, I have no idea. But if he is still around, he is laying really low! Can't recall the last time I saw his name attached to anything or him posting in the forums.

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: JustStarting
I expect results will start somewhere marginally better than the original NIB starting point- for one reason only...... the TIM under the IHS has now been cured, and all you have to do now is cure the AS5 or whatever you use on your HSF for a TIM. If somehow you could take of the IHS and use AMD's garbage to reseat the IHS you'd be right back where you started out of the box.

What AMD uses under the IHS looks like modeling clay.... it takes quite a while for that to really cure, and my guess is that is what is really happening here. You will probably be actually very close to your endpoint in terms of OC, but temps will take a few days to reach their best.

There is no magic happening here folks...... it's just curing the TIM (under, and on top of the IHS)

The magic is that CPUs are running at higher frequencies with less voltage. It can be scientifically explained, I'm sure, but the results sure seem "magic" to me. I'll test soon, to see for myself.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Since Andy isn't here anymore, I'll do the honors You've been FAQed!

Why did Andy leave ??

Honestly, I have no idea. But if he is still around, he is laying really low! Can't recall the last time I saw his name attached to anything or him posting in the forums.

I checked his profile..last time he logged in was about 1 yr ago...too bad..excellent source of info

 

[Chesebert]

ok...this is load of bull..and I did work on the original Athlon....the thunderbird era...and I have heard it all.... burn in works, put CPU in frig speed up the computer (without overclocking)...blah..blah....can't take much of this crap....maybe that's why I ain't designing CPU anymore......they are all similar....stuff that has been done to death by other companies and INTEL/AMD try to put a marketing spin on it to make it their own.... yawn....

P4 was different ..... ok...but remind you of alpha....atleast they tried....LMAO

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Since Andy isn't here anymore, I'll do the honors You've been FAQed!

It's not the same. I'm not giving it more volts, I'm giving it less volts.

 

[robertk2012]

So please tell me what exactly its doing that help your cpu be all that it can be?

 

[TrevorRC]

Originally posted by: JustStarting
what I'd like to see is after you get where you want to be, remove the HSF, clean the old paste off the IHS and HSF, re-apply TIM of your choice and see if it still works after reseating the HSF

Haha. There we go

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: robertk2012
So please tell me what exactly its doing that help your cpu be all that it can be?

I have no idea, but it works, so I'm not complaining.

Originally posted by: TrevorRC

Originally posted by: JustStarting
what I'd like to see is after you get where you want to be, remove the HSF, clean the old paste off the IHS and HSF, re-apply TIM of your choice and see if it still works after reseating the HSF

Haha. There we go

Yeah, I'll prolly reseat my HSF tonight (GMT+1 ).

 

[JustStarting]

veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Its voodoooooo. That explains it. Im going to do it to my opty tonight so I can.....oh wait my motherboard is what is limiting me. Does this black magic help your motherboard too?

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Dude, this doesn't only work on NEW processors. Hell, I've had it working on an AthlonXP 1400+ Thunderbird that was already in the mobo for 2 years. May I remind you that these are IHS-less?

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Its voodoooooo. That explains it. Im going to do it to my opty tonight so I can.....oh wait my motherboard is what is limiting me. Does this black magic help your motherboard too?

If you don't believe in this, fine. Go ahead, I don't care. But please, don't crap my thread, okay? I can't remember crapping any of your threads.

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Dude, this doesn't only work on NEW processors. Hell, I've had it working on an AthlonXP 1400+ Thunderbird that was already in the mobo for 2 years. May I remind you that these are IHS-less?

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Its voodoooooo. That explains it. Im going to do it to my opty tonight so I can.....oh wait my motherboard is what is limiting me. Does this black magic help your motherboard too?

If you don't believe in this, fine. Go ahead, I don't care. But please, don't crap my thread, okay? I can't remember crapping any of your threads.

Im not crapping I just think that you should justify you reasons before having people run there computers at 100% for hours on end at setting that are definately not stable. I disagree with you and if you ever disagree with me feel free to say so. May last comment wasnt nessessary....but i do find it kind of funny that people will just blindy do things like this with no real reason. Its an urban myth of the computer world.

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Dude, this doesn't only work on NEW processors. Hell, I've had it working on an AthlonXP 1400+ Thunderbird that was already in the mobo for 2 years. May I remind you that these are IHS-less?

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Its voodoooooo. That explains it. Im going to do it to my opty tonight so I can.....oh wait my motherboard is what is limiting me. Does this black magic help your motherboard too?

If you don't believe in this, fine. Go ahead, I don't care. But please, don't crap my thread, okay? I can't remember crapping any of your threads.

Im not crapping I just think that you should justify you reasons before having people run there computers at 100% for hours on end at setting that are definately not stable. I disagree with you and if you ever disagree with me feel free to say so. May last comment wasnt nessessary....but i do find it kind of funny that people will just blindy do things like this with no real reason. Its an urban myth of the computer world.

I don't know what's so hard about it, but my processor FAILED Prime the first time at this voltage, and crashed every time, but since I did this, not a single hiccup, and I passed Prime. I don't exactly know what it's doing, but I can guarantee you, it's doing something, alright .

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Dude, this doesn't only work on NEW processors. Hell, I've had it working on an AthlonXP 1400+ Thunderbird that was already in the mobo for 2 years. May I remind you that these are IHS-less?

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Its voodoooooo. That explains it. Im going to do it to my opty tonight so I can.....oh wait my motherboard is what is limiting me. Does this black magic help your motherboard too?

If you don't believe in this, fine. Go ahead, I don't care. But please, don't crap my thread, okay? I can't remember crapping any of your threads.

Im not crapping I just think that you should justify you reasons before having people run there computers at 100% for hours on end at setting that are definately not stable. I disagree with you and if you ever disagree with me feel free to say so. May last comment wasnt nessessary....but i do find it kind of funny that people will just blindy do things like this with no real reason. Its an urban myth of the computer world.

I don't know what's so hard about it, but my processor FAILED Prime the first time at this voltage, and crashed every time, but since I did this, not a single hiccup, and I passed Prime. I don't exactly know what it's doing, but I can guarantee you, it's doing something, alright .

That doesnt mean it was the burn in. You could have ran it at 100% at a stable speed and accomplished the same thing. The thermal compounds have to cure...that has been scientifically proven unlike burn-in type theorys.

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Dude, this doesn't only work on NEW processors. Hell, I've had it working on an AthlonXP 1400+ Thunderbird that was already in the mobo for 2 years. May I remind you that these are IHS-less?

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: JustStarting
veg... what you're simply ignorimng is the fact that it takes so many hours at a certain temp to cure the "clay like AMD goo" TIM UNDER the IHS.

After that is done you will have lower temps, which limited the chips ability to run where you currently have it, in the first place.

I had a HOT 148 CABYE with the IHS on... I mean like 40C idle when all my other chips were like 30- 32C idle. I removed the IHS and applied Ceramique under it. Just from normal usage/benching/priming for a few days here and there, my temps have gone down about 5C with this 148. It is because the Ceramique under and on top of the IHS are now starting to cure....... Not because the chip has been "burned- in" in some magic sort of way??

Its voodoooooo. That explains it. Im going to do it to my opty tonight so I can.....oh wait my motherboard is what is limiting me. Does this black magic help your motherboard too?

If you don't believe in this, fine. Go ahead, I don't care. But please, don't crap my thread, okay? I can't remember crapping any of your threads.

Im not crapping I just think that you should justify you reasons before having people run there computers at 100% for hours on end at setting that are definately not stable. I disagree with you and if you ever disagree with me feel free to say so. May last comment wasnt nessessary....but i do find it kind of funny that people will just blindy do things like this with no real reason. Its an urban myth of the computer world.

I don't know what's so hard about it, but my processor FAILED Prime the first time at this voltage, and crashed every time, but since I did this, not a single hiccup, and I passed Prime. I don't exactly know what it's doing, but I can guarantee you, it's doing something, alright .

That doesnt mean it was the burn in. You could have ran it at 100% at a stable speed and accomplished the same thing. The thermal compounds have to cure...that has been scientifically proven unlike burn-in type theorys.

Dude, let's go over it scientifically if you want that so bad:
Before procedure:
Boot at 1800 MHz, 1.000V? - Yes
Able to get into task manager - Yes
Able to pass 12h of Prime95 - No
After procedure:
Boot at 1800 MHz, 1.000V - Yes
Able to get into task manager - Yes
Able to pass 12h of Prime95 - Yes

Clearly, there's something different, and it's the passing of Prime that I think is different. Well, I'd like to hear a proper explanation, then. The IHS curing this is plain bullshi[/i]t, because the same procedure worked on an IHS-less chip. Multiple, in fact.

 

[pm]

I've worked for Intel for 11 years, before that I interned with Inmos Corp. Mostly I've done design, but more recently I have been working in "back-end" debug for several years. Among other things recently, I've been writing tests for the burn-in ovens at Intel and looking at burn-in fall-out (why parts on a product are failing in burn-in) and analyzing large volume burn-in data (literally hundreds of thousands of parts). This is microprocessor burn-in - high temperature, high voltage testing done to try to eliminate "infant mortality. I am about as close an expert on this subject as you are likely to find posting at Anandtech and I'm the author of the FAQ entry that was quoted above.

Note that I am not speaking on behalf of Intel - I am not an Intel company representative - nor is anything that I'm writing specific to Intel CPU's... all CMOS circuitry from DSP's to ASIC's to CPU's all are like this.

I do not dispute anything in this thread. But what I will say is that this burn-in effect is not affecting anything on the CPU die. The silicon is not speeding up. Whatever effect you are seeing, it has nothing to do with the microprocessor silicon speeding up. In burn-in on CMOS circuitry (high-voltage, high-temperature operation), the transistors will always slow down by a small but measureable percentage. NMOSFETs slow down due to impact ionization creating trapped charges in the oxide of the gate shifting the Vt upwards. PMOSFETS slow down to PMOS BTI creating positive charge interface traps at the oxide-channel boundary which also shifts the Vt and reduces saturation current.

Beyond that, if this technique for burning in a part seems to help, then my only input is that it's not the silicon speeding up. I don't see the technique as posted by the OP as doing any harm. If it helps, then it's a good thing. About the only negative thing that I can think of is that running at an unstable operating point could lead to data corruption on the hard disk which could result in data loss (ie. your hard disk data is lost) but this isn't likely... just a possibility.


Lastly, my company email is in my profile. If anyone doubts that I am who I say that I am, email my Intel email address, and/or do a search for "Patrick Mahoney" Intel "Fort Collins" in Google.

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Dude, let's go over it scientifically if you want that so bad:
Before procedure:
Boot at 1800 MHz, 1.000V? - Yes
Able to get into task manager - Yes
Able to pass 12h of Prime95 - No
After procedure:
Boot at 1800 MHz, 1.000V - Yes
Able to get into task manager - Yes
Able to pass 12h of Prime95 - Yes

Clearly, there's something different, and it's the passing of Prime that I think is different. Well, I'd like to hear a proper explanation, then. The IHS curing this is plain bullshi[/i]t, because the same procedure worked on an IHS-less chip. Multiple, in fact.

To prove anything you must have conrol group and an experimental group. Group being more than one. Just because something changed in you computer doesnt mean it was the burn-in.

Its also not just IHS curing. Its the artic silver or other compound curing.


artic silver

Important Reminder:
Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.

Ceramique

Important Reminder:

Due to the unique shapes and sizes of the particles in Ceramique, it will take a minimum of 25 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop slightly over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.

I guess they just dont know what they are talking about.