Bush plan targets Cuban nickel

[theeedude]

http://metalsplace.com/metalsnews/?a=6007

TextThe Bush administration vowed Monday to crack down on nickel exports from Cuba, at least half of which are accounted for by Canada's Sherritt International Corp., alleging that the money from the sales is being "diverted to maintain the regime's repressive security apparatus."

But Sherritt's chairman, Ian Delaney, immediately labelled the proposed actions as "nothing new" and said that the continuing U.S. embargo on the Communist nation is simply "nonsense."

First of all, that would probably be an American company benefitting from it, instead of a Canadian one if we stopped being retarded wrt to Cuba and pondering to a small minority in Florida.
Secondly, how's Cuba any worse than all the other countries we trade with? Considering their impressive life expectancy, clearly their government is at least taking good care of their people, while political freedoms are surely no worse than Saudi Arabia or China or Turkmenistan, etc...
And thirdly, unilateral embargo on a commodity is unworkable. Nickel is nickel. Once Cuban Nickel is on the global market, it's the same as any other nickel. And even if you could block it from reaching the market, that would only make the prices go up at the time of an already serious nickel shortage and record prices.
Our policy towards Cuba should be determined by the best interest of all Americans, not just one group.
Cuba should be treated same as China. We don't have to like their political system, but it's their system, and we should still trade with them.

 

[CanOWorms]

Canada has long been funding the oppressive regime in Cuba.

 

[theeedude]

No more than we are funding the oppressive regime in China or Saudi. Canada is just in touch with reality when it comes to Cuba. They aren't cutting off the nose to spite their own face. If Cuba has nickel, and nickel prices are at all time high, someone is going to take nickel from Cuba and sell it on the world market. Canada would just rather it be them than someone else.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: senseamp
No more than we are funding the oppressive regime in China or Saudi. Canada is just in touch with reality when it comes to Cuba. They aren't cutting off the nose to spite their own face. If Cuba has nickel, and nickel prices are at all time high, someone is going to take nickel from Cuba and sell it on the world market. Canada would just rather it be them than someone else.

According to the article, it claims that the proceeds are going directly to the security apparatus. Because Canada is doing something is not a good reason that the US should, especially given their history.

They currently have a company being sued in the US for ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape in Sudan. The US and many other countries pulled out of Sudan, but not Canada. Canada was faulted for directly funding Sudan's civil war. Should the US and everybody else stayed in back then? An American/British/Andorran/whatever company could have been making money off the enslavement of Sudanese, not a Canadian one!

I think that in the future Canada's role in the destruction of Tibet will be well known, too. It's already receiving criticism.

 

[sandorski]

Canada, at the behest of the Queen, is taking over!

 

[bobdelt]

"Secondly, how's Cuba any worse than all the other countries we trade with? Considering their impressive life expectancy, clearly their government is at least taking good care of their people, while political freedoms are surely no worse than Saudi Arabia or China or Turkmenistan, etc..."

Cuban missle crisis ring a bell? If we go back on our embargos, if would never be an effective bargaining chip in the future. And just because other countries might be worse, doesnt mean we shouldnt trade with Cuba. 2 wrongs dont make a right.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
"Secondly, how's Cuba any worse than all the other countries we trade with? Considering their impressive life expectancy, clearly their government is at least taking good care of their people, while political freedoms are surely no worse than Saudi Arabia or China or Turkmenistan, etc..."

Cuban missle crisis ring a bell? If we go back on our embargos, if would never be an effective bargaining chip in the future. And just because other countries might be worse, doesnt mean we shouldnt trade with Cuba. 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Yeah and if it weren't for China, we'd have just Korea; things change. The embargo is asinine.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
"Secondly, how's Cuba any worse than all the other countries we trade with? Considering their impressive life expectancy, clearly their government is at least taking good care of their people, while political freedoms are surely no worse than Saudi Arabia or China or Turkmenistan, etc..."

Cuban missle crisis ring a bell? If we go back on our embargos, if would never be an effective bargaining chip in the future. And just because other countries might be worse, doesnt mean we shouldnt trade with Cuba. 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Grudge much?

 

[theeedude]

Cuban embargo isn't working. Castro is still in power. It's completely counterproductive. China is a lot more capitalist country than it was before because we trade with them, so is India.
All we are doing is keeping Castro in power by isolating the Cuban economy from the US influence.
Castro would be a lot more dependent on the US if there were loads of US tourists and US companies doing business in Cuba, he would have something to lose. He would care about Cuba's relations with the US, and about Cuban image in America, because it would be directly tied to Cuban economy and his own pocketbook. Imagine if Cubans were working for US companies or servicing US tourists or selling their products to the US? Would they support anti-US policies if their livelyhoods depended on good relations with the US? Who do you think would be more likely to support Cuban government policies against the US, someone working for the Cuban government, or someone working for a US company in Cuba? Cubans in Florida need to realize one thing, they aren't going to get the land they abandoned in the 50's back from the Cuban government, it's long gone and other people live there and own it. No government in the world, democratic or communist is going to evict millions of people to give land back to othes who left the country 60 years ago. It just not going to happen. But if US and Cuba normalize relations, Florida expats will benefit greatly, because they will be in good position to buy land and invest in Cuba, because they are a lot richer than Cubans on the Island, they have relatives and connections there, and they have a good understanding of capitalism and how to make money. A lot of Russian immigrants returned after USSR collapsed and made fortunes in Russia, so did a lot of Chinese, Indian, and other immigrants who started companies in their homelands thanks to normalized US relations and trade. If Cuba were to follow China's model of capitalist economy in a "communist" state, Florida Cubans would benefit the most, no doubt in my mind about it. Ultimately, they are the ones with the capital to invest.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: senseamp
No more than we are funding the oppressive regime in China or Saudi. Canada is just in touch with reality when it comes to Cuba. They aren't cutting off the nose to spite their own face. If Cuba has nickel, and nickel prices are at all time high, someone is going to take nickel from Cuba and sell it on the world market. Canada would just rather it be them than someone else.

According to the article, it claims that the proceeds are going directly to the security apparatus. Because Canada is doing something is not a good reason that the US should, especially given their history.

They currently have a company being sued in the US for ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape in Sudan. The US and many other countries pulled out of Sudan, but not Canada. Canada was faulted for directly funding Sudan's civil war. Should the US and everybody else stayed in back then? An American/British/Andorran/whatever company could have been making money off the enslavement of Sudanese, not a Canadian one!

I think that in the future Canada's role in the destruction of Tibet will be well known, too. It's already receiving criticism.

lol
The way you make these connections its amazing you haven't figured out the American admin/mil 's attempt to genocide the Iraqi's

(lights up a cigar, Cuban of course)

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

lol
The way you make these connections its amazing you haven't figured out the American admin/mil 's attempt to genocide the Iraqi's

(lights up a cigar, Cuban of course)

They're sure doing a poor job then!

 

[tommywishbone]

The Cuban missle crisis? Well how about the War of 1812? What about no taxation without representation? What about that stupid Magna Carta thing back in 1215?

JFC, let it go.

The Cuban embargo... galactic nincompoopery.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms


They're sure doing a poor job then!

Anywhere from 40,000 to 200,000 dead.
Causing a civil war
Children dieing from lack of medicine

Marie Fernandez, a spokeswoman for Vienna-based aid agency Saving Children from War, said that the agency ? which has been working with local doctors ? has noted a lack of essential supplies, especially intravenous infusions and blood bags. "There's a lack of everything. Children are dying because of bleeding because there are no blood bags available," said Fernandez. "Antibiotics, Pentostam [an antimony compound used in the treatment of parasite infection], special milk for dehydrated children, and almost all medical material for emergency conditions aren't available."

In Baghdad, Ministry of Health officials say they are struggling to acquire the required medicines, but noted that their efforts were largely impeded by security issues and official corruption. "Because of security problems, it's difficult to have a complete picture of the problem," said senior ministry official Ahmed Saleh. "We're going to conduct a thorough study on the cases in the south ? especially on the lack of medicine, because corruption is complicating the problem."

Rising mortality rates

IRAQ: Insecurity, under-funding threaten children's health in Basra
etc etc etc
I think its a pretty good start

How the other half lives-

QUESTION: SGM A.: Can the lobster tails be cut in half?

RESPONSE: MR. L.: Due to the lack of proper equipment, this is not possible.

STATEMENT: PFC P.: The music in the dining facility is too loud. The soldiers cannot hear the televisions. I also would like to request more variety of fruit, with an emphasis on strawberries.

RESPONSE: SFC W.: The music issue will be addressed.

QUESTION: Requests Rye bread, bigger taco shells, and Jell-O without fruit or anything in it. He also stated that the salt and pepper shakers did not dispense enough salt and pepper and many soldiers would need to unscrew the top off to get enough.

RESPONSE: SFC W.: explains that the shakers have just recently been purchased and that in order to get better ones, the military would have to provide funds to replace the existing salt and pepper shakers.

Camp Victory Complaint: The Lobster Tails Are Too Big

 

[Stunt]

Cuba isn't that bad of a place to live. The people there are quite happy and understand the communal mindset. When i was down there recently...all the waiters and bar tenders voluntarily share their tips among all staff at the resort. They also understand many world issues, even if it is biased a little; it wasn't brainwashing. They like Americans and understand Americans endorse individual rights over a communal system, but they said the things they disliked the most about the US was their pollution and military initiatives.

In all honesty, I found Cubans more pro-US than Canadians are.

 

[RMich]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
Cuban missle crisis ring a bell? If we go back on our embargos, if would never be an effective bargaining chip in the future. And just because other countries might be worse, doesnt mean we shouldnt trade with Cuba. 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Ye gads, man. The cuban missile crisis was in 1962. That was 44 years ago. Actually, I am old enough and I do remember it. But the issue then was that Cuba was a military ally of the Soviet Union, our sworn superpower enemy. The "unsinkable aircraft carrier just 90 miles from our shores" as folks used to say back then. Now the Soviet Union and the Cold War are but an (increasingly fond) memory, and Cuba is just another pissant country with a dictator and a funky economic system. You'd be hard pressed, in today's world, to argue Cuba is a serious threat to US national security. I don't ordinarily appeal to W as an authority on geopolitics, but in this case he is correct -- Did Cuba make the "axis of evil"? Heck no. Not even a good candidate for the second tier.

And, if you are old enough to remember 1962, you may recall that in the beginning the purpose of the embargo was to destabilize Castro's regime. Tell me, how is that coming along? Talk about a failed foreign policy initiative! If we are still mired in Iraq fighting an insurgency in 2049, are you going to tell me we will have to persist because otherwise armed intervention will not be a good bargaining chip in the future?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: CanOWorms


They're sure doing a poor job then!

Anywhere from 40,000 to 200,000 dead.
Causing a civil war
Children dieing from lack of medicine
etc etc etc
I think its a pretty good start

So where is the profit coming from?

It's actually interesting that you brought up Iraq because many Canadian companies are profiting monetarily from it as well.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

So where is the profit coming from?

There has to be profit involved in genocide?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

There has to be profit involved in genocide?

*waves the Canadian flag and kisses a portrait of the Queen*

God bless the Queen, and nobody else!

You're entering your Canada vs. US super-patriosm mode again. I am simply disputing the OP's belief that because Canada is making money from an oppressive regime and funding their security apparatus, that doesn't mean that US companies should get in on the action.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

You're entering your Canada vs. US super-patriosm mode again.

Heh, I did a search on here about your super patriosm?
You've played the same game for years and years with everyone who is not a U.S. resident

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

You're entering your Canada vs. US super-patriosm mode again.

Heh, I did a search on here about your super patriosm?
You've played the same game for years and years with everyone who is not a U.S. resident

ok

 

[Infohawk]

When will this embargo stupidity end?

When special interests stop controlling foreign policy...

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

When will this embargo stupidity end?

When special interests stop controlling foreign policy...

*DING DING DING*

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

As long as the US continues to prop up Saudi Arabia there is little room to complain about Canada supporting Cuba.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
"Secondly, how's Cuba any worse than all the other countries we trade with? Considering their impressive life expectancy, clearly their government is at least taking good care of their people, while political freedoms are surely no worse than Saudi Arabia or China or Turkmenistan, etc..."

Cuban missle crisis ring a bell? If we go back on our embargos, if would never be an effective bargaining chip in the future. And just because other countries might be worse, doesnt mean we shouldnt trade with Cuba. 2 wrongs dont make a right.

What are you smoking, they aren't an effective bargaining tool now

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
As long as the US continues to prop up Saudi Arabia there is little room to complain about Canada supporting Cuba.

Of course there is, especially since Canada "supports" SA as well.

If what the the Bush admin says is correct, Sherritt is directly funding the "repressive security apparatus." This is not your typical Canadian company just having any business in Cuba. It's similar to how Talisman was actively involved with funding ethnic cleansing, killings, war crimes, confiscation of property, enslavement, kidnapping and rape.