Bush where was he?

[DealMonkey]

I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

 

[bobcpg]

Who really cares, he's already been president for 4 years. I relate it to taking the act/sat after you've been in college for 4 years already, it doesn't really matter.
Maybe we should focus on what he has done in his 4 years as president and not what he did or didn't do when he was serving. I would think that that would be more important.

-bob

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Most of this is coming from blogs, which basically forced the mainstream media to fact check CBS. So far CBSs facts are not holding upi well.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: bobcpg
Who really cares, he's already been president for 4 years. I relate it to taking the act/sat after you've been in college for 4 years already, it doesn't really matter.
Maybe we should focus on what he has done in his 4 years as president and not what he did or didn't do when he was serving. I would think that that would be more important.

Bush's performance in office offers plenty of reasons to vote him out. I think the questions of whether he got special treatment getting into the Air National Guard, or whether he was a doofus who ducked out for his own personal reason while in it aren't that important. It doesn't speak well for his integrity, but a lot of privileged people did that at the time.

However, if he did these things, I believe it is more important that he is lying about them, NOW. That speaks to his integrity in the present, instead of the past.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Most of this is coming from blogs, which basically forced the mainstream media to fact check CBS. So far CBSs facts are not holding upi well.

What are you talking about, it IS holding up as the peices in question are real.



The truth is not a good thing for republicans

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Most of this is coming from blogs, which basically forced the mainstream media to fact check CBS. So far CBSs facts are not holding upi well.

What are you talking about, it IS holding up as the peices in question are real.



The truth is not a good thing for republicans

Just keep the cbs blindersd and you will be ok. ABC/NBC have already put out articles greatly questioning the story and not just the memos. Just read this thread for the links, but apparently you have not done that.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Most of this is coming from blogs, which basically forced the mainstream media to fact check CBS. So far CBSs facts are not holding upi well.

What are you talking about, it IS holding up as the peices in question are real.

Shh. Don't lead them to the truth. If they can't find it on their own, they never will.

The truth is not a good thing for republicans

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Most of this is coming from blogs, which basically forced the mainstream media to fact check CBS. So far CBSs facts are not holding upi well.

What are you talking about, it IS holding up as the peices in question are real.

Shh. Don't lead them to the truth. If they can't find it on their own, they never will.

The truth is not a good thing for republicans

The new evidence and new witnesses have pretty much fallen apart at this point.

 

[1EZduzit]

How is it that this Col. Staudt who was honorably discharged March 1 1972 is also listed as retired Gen. Staudt?

4/2/1999

In his State of the State address, Governor Bush declared that "the failed practice of social promotion" in public schools must end. (President Clinton had said much the same thing in his State of the Union speech a few days earlier.) It is now the bi-partisan political wisdom, despite considerable research evidence to the contrary, that holding students back will help them in the long run.
Left Field, nevertheless, remains curious: why should such a longtime beneficiary of social promotion as Governor Bush now oppose a practice which worked so well for him? Although the Guv?s education, for example, began in the socially unpromising environs of Midland?s public schools, he soon moved to more distinguished surroundings: Houston?s Kinkaid School and Massachusetts? Phillips Andover. By the Governor?s own admission, his academic career was unremarkable at best. So it would appear that his subsequent stints at Yale and Harvard Business School were but the dearly purchased social promotion of a son-of-a-Bush.
Consider also the photo above, dated September 4, 1968, and featuring then-Congressman George H.W. Bush ceremonially pinning the bar on his son, a new Second Lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard. The Governor and the Guard insist he received no special treatment during his military service. Yet questions persist about a stateside guard unit (the 147th Fighter Group) which offered space to Bush and other political scions (notably Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen?s son, Lloyd III) in the midst of the Vietnam War, when long waiting lists for such positions were the rule nationwide. Veterans point out that Bush, who enlisted in May as an airman basic, received his second lieutenant?s commission in September ? perhaps the quickest such ascension in military history (matched by his 1973 discharge, also early for a pilot with his training). And while Bush says he "volunteered" for combat and was never called, in fact he was trained in F-102 fighters ? aircraft by that time no longer in use in Vietnam.
Retired General Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, the commander of the 147th Fighter Group in 1968, continues to insist that Bush received no favors from the Guard. Then-Speaker of the House, Ben Barnes, says that during those years he helped the sons of several important Texans get into the Guard, but as to George W. Bush ? he can?t specifically recall. George the Younger acknowledges he was not exactly gung-ho about enlisting. "It was either Canada or the service," he told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram last November, "and I was headed for the service." After all, Dad and Grandpa had a lot fewer friends in Canada

http://www.texasobserver.org/s...cle.asp?ArticleID=1015

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
What, a firing squad? OR just a quick bullet to the head?

Either would suffice, however I am always a firing squad fan

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Dude,

You realise you are talking about three or four shows at best....the "conservative media" is miniscule compared to the left leaning programs out and about. Even if they are hammering it as you say most of the AM Pub is getting their info from the lo broadcast networks

 

[1EZduzit]

This was a good read for those interested:This is from "Fortunate Son" by J.H. Hatfield

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I believe what we're witnessing is pure blowback and propaganda from the conservative media which is acting in concert to deflect these charges. It's the same sort of attempt to discredit that we saw with the liberal media tearing apart the SBV4T.

Every conservative commentator out there is pounding this thing like crazy -- Christ, Limbaugh could barely force all of the derogatory words about democrats and this "memo scandal" out his fat suck hole fast enough yesterday.

I'll reserve my judgment on this until some actual facts emerge about the authenticity.

Dude,

You realise you are talking about three or four shows at best....the "conservative media" is miniscule compared to the left leaning programs out and about. Even if they are hammering it as you say most of the AM Pub is getting their info from the lo broadcast networks

Whatever you say, but the conservative media exists and it dominates the AM dial. Of course there's always FNC on cable and a litany of conservative press out there. Don't sell your side short, there are plenty of conservative voices out there in media land.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: bozack
Dude,

You realise you are talking about three or four shows at best....the "conservative media" is miniscule compared to the left leaning programs out and about. Even if they are hammering it as you say most of the AM Pub is getting their info from the lo broadcast networks

The "conservative media" count rises substantially when you include all of Rupert Murddoch's holdings, starting with Fox < uhg > News.

 

[burnedout]

Marcel Matley and "The Practical Litigator", September 2002

The Problem with Copies

Do not passively accept a copy as the sole basis of a case. Every copy, intentionally or unintentionally,
is in some way false to the original.

In fact, modern copiers and computer printers are so good that they permit easy fabrication of
quality forgeries. From a copy, the document examiner cannot authenticate the unseen original
but may well be able to determine that the unseen original is false. Further, a definite finding
of authenticity for a signature is not possible from a photocopy, while a definite finding of falsity
is possible.

Marcel Matley and CBS, September 2004

Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley analyzed the documents for CBS News. He says he believes they are real. And he is concerned about exactly what is being examined by some of the people questioning the documents, because deterioration occurs each time a document is reproduced. And the documents being analyzed outside of CBS News have been photocopied, faxed, scanned and downloaded, and are far removed from the documents CBS News started with.

[...]

"We look basically at what's called significant or insignificant features to determine whether it's the same person or not," Matley said. "I have no problem identifying them. I would say based on our available handwriting evidence, yes, this is the same person."

As Private Hudson of "Aliens fame might say "That's it man, game over man, game over, man! Game over!"

Heh

 

[GoPackGo]

Yet another sample of what the...er did vs the document

 

[Sketcher]

W/each campaign hiccup we hear from the left that we need to discuss the REAL issues:

1. Let's talk about the real issues and not get quagmired in ... (diverting discussion away from Vietnam/medals/cambodia/)
2. Let's talk about the real issues and not get caught up in... (diverting discussion away from forgery scandal/CBSRather/bandwagon)
3. Let's talk about the real issues...

Dayummm. The Real issue is that if you can't handle the issues leading up to an election, you sure as hell can't handle the bigger issues as President.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Whatever you say, but the conservative media exists and it dominates the AM dial. Of course there's always FNC on cable and a litany of conservative press out there. Don't sell your side short, there are plenty of conservative voices out there in media land.

THE AM DIAL?? who gives a rats ass about the AM dial? and wow one Broadcast television media network along with a handful of rags...please, compare that with virtually every local affiliate of CBS, NBC, ABC...not to mention CNN, NPR..more than a few liberal AM talkshows comming about...the "conservative voice" is miniscule when compared with that of the left...

I can see someone like you being happy when all of conservative talk radio is wiped out of existance, Fox is totally discredited and publication stops on all of the right leaning papers..then there might be a balance right?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Harvey
The "conservative media" count rises substantially when you include all of Rupert Murddoch's holdings, starting with Fox < uhg > News.

What? please....such as (outside of Fox news) ...again Harv, like Deal I feel you won't be content until all conservative media outlets are wiped out and no longer reporting, then someone like you would feel there is a good balance of conservative/liberal media...

 

[burnedout]

Newsweek thinks Bill Burkett supplied the documents:

Where did the documents come from? CBS won't say. But the trail pieced together by NEWSWEEK shows that in a sulfurous season like this one, the difference between obscurity and power is small, and anyone can get a hearing. A principal source for CBS's story was Bill Burkett, a disgruntled former Guard officer who lives in Baird, Texas, who says he was present at Guard headquarters in Austin in 1997, when a top aide to the then Governor Bush ordered records sanitized to protect the Boss. Other Guard officials disputed Burkett's account, and the Bush aide involved, Joe Allbaugh, called it "absolute garbage." Burkett may have a motive to make trouble for the powers that be. In 1998, he grew gravely ill on a Guard mission to Panama, causing him to be hospitalized, and he suffered two nervous breakdowns. He unsuccessfully sued for medical expenses.

Still, in theory, Burkett may have had access to any Guard records that, in a friend's words, "didn't make it to the shredder." Fellow officers say he wasn't a crank, but rather a stickler for proper procedure?a classic whistle-blower type. Burkett was impressive enough to cause CBS producer Mary Mapes to fly to Texas to interview him. "There are only a couple of guys I would trust to be as perfectly honest and upfront as Bill," says Dennis Adams, a former Guard colleague. The White House, through Communications Director Dan Bartlett, called Burkett a "discredited source." Indeed, Bush strategists are convinced?or have convinced themselves?that the issue will backfire on its purveyors.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: burnedout
Marcel Matley and "The Practical Litigator", September 2002

The Problem with Copies

Do not passively accept a copy as the sole basis of a case. Every copy, intentionally or unintentionally,
is in some way false to the original.

In fact, modern copiers and computer printers are so good that they permit easy fabrication of
quality forgeries. From a copy, the document examiner cannot authenticate the unseen original
but may well be able to determine that the unseen original is false. Further, a definite finding
of authenticity for a signature is not possible from a photocopy, while a definite finding of falsity
is possible.

Marcel Matley and CBS, September 2004

Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley analyzed the documents for CBS News. He says he believes they are real. And he is concerned about exactly what is being examined by some of the people questioning the documents, because deterioration occurs each time a document is reproduced. And the documents being analyzed outside of CBS News have been photocopied, faxed, scanned and downloaded, and are far removed from the documents CBS News started with.

[...]

"We look basically at what's called significant or insignificant features to determine whether it's the same person or not," Matley said. "I have no problem identifying them. I would say based on our available handwriting evidence, yes, this is the same person."

As Private Hudson of "Aliens fame might say "That's it man, game over man, game over, man! Game over!"

Heh

The article above is another example of CBS's stellar fact checking. It cites expert "Phillip Broussard" as claiming the memos could have possibly been done on an IBM Selectric Composer (which was an extremely expensive typesetting machine, not a typewriter that more than likely would not have been on the desk of an ANG commander). Besides, even the IBM Selectric Composer did not use a right (closing) quote for apostrophes. It still used a straight quote because there was no left (opening) quote key on the keyboard, nor did any of the interchangable golf balls available at the time have both left (opening) and right (closing) quotes. Not to mention that there is no proof that the US Military ever purshased IBM Selectric Composers for any branch of service in the first place.

Back to my point about fact checking by CBS. The man's name is Philip Bouffard, not "Phillip Broussard," and he's one of the top forensic document experts in the US. He also disagrees with how The Globe took his comments out of context and is rather upset about it.

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000851.php

gg on providing facts again CBS.

As far as copies go, no reiteration of copying a document is going to change the fonts from monospaced to proportional.

Then there's the problem with Staudt retiring in '72 while being mentioned in the '73 document as applying pressure.

Now one of CBS's "unimpeachable" sources claims CBS misled him and believe the documents to be fake.

The preponderance of evidence in this case is completely against CBS and Dan Rather. Their failure to open up an internal investigation makes one believe they have something to hide as well. The ball is in their court an unless they somehow sink a full-court buzzer beater this is going to destroy what little credibility they had remaining.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Whatever you say, but the conservative media exists and it dominates the AM dial. Of course there's always FNC on cable and a litany of conservative press out there. Don't sell your side short, there are plenty of conservative voices out there in media land.

THE AM DIAL?? who gives a rats ass about the AM dial? and wow one Broadcast television media network along with a handful of rags...please, compare that with virtually every local affiliate of CBS, NBC, ABC...not to mention CNN, NPR..more than a few liberal AM talkshows comming about...the "conservative voice" is miniscule when compared with that of the left...

Where else are you going to find talk radio Bozack? The FM dial? How many millions of listeners does Rush have? 20Mil+? How many millions listen to Hannity? In fact my words were "..there are plenty of conservative voices out there in (the) media..." And there are.

I can see someone like you being happy when all of conservative talk radio is wiped out of existance, Fox is totally discredited and publication stops on all of the right leaning papers..then there might be a balance right?

Way to put words in my mouth. :roll:

 

[jahawkin]

I hope all you typography experts can easily spot the differences here. Pretty easy huh??
In addition, can someone explain how a number of 'e's in the documents are much above the baseline?? How is that done in word??
You know, the documents could be fake, but then again they could be real. Does this change anything about the Bush desertion story?? The facts still remain the same - Bush fell short of his obligation link

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: jahawkin
I hope all you typography experts can easily spot the differences here. Pretty easy huh??
In addition, can someone explain how a number of 'e's in the documents are much above the baseline?? How is that done in word??
You know, the documents could be fake, but then again they could be real. Does this change anything about the Bush desertion story?? The facts still remain the same - Bush fell short of his obligation (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/i...920/usnews/20guard.htm">link)</a>

I dont think anyone is denying that the composer could have created documents that were similar(Word still has more resolution). However, it is doubtfult that someone would have been using such a complex maching to type memos. It is also highly doubtful that this high end machine was available to the air national guard.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: jahawkin
I hope all you typography experts can easily spot the differences here. Pretty easy huh??
In addition, can someone explain how a number of 'e's in the documents are much above the baseline?? How is that done in word??
You know, the documents could be fake, but then again they could be real. Does this change anything about the Bush desertion story?? The facts still remain the same - Bush fell short of his obligation (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/i...920/usnews/20guard.htm">link)</a>

I dont think anyone is denying that the composer could have created documents that were similar(Word still has more resolution). However, it is doubtfult that someone would have been using such a complex maching to type memos. It is also highly doubtful that this high end machine was available to the air national guard.

You should read the manual for using the thing....looks like a real pain to use, especially for centering and justification.