Bush where was he?

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1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country." (Colin Powell?s autobiography, My American Journey, p. 148)
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Bush has found military readiness to be a handy campaign issue. Yet even though more than two decades have passed since Bush left the Air National Guard, some military sources still bristle at his service record -- and what effect it had on readiness. "In short, for the several hundred thousand dollars we tax payers spent on getting [Bush] trained as a fighter jock, he repaid us with sixty-eight days of active duty. And God only knows if and when he ever flew on those days," concludes a military source. "I've spent more time cleaning up latrines than he did flying
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
BUSH A NO-SHOW AT ALABAMA BASE, SAYS MEMPHIAN

The question of Bush?s presence in 1972 at Dannelly Air National Guard base in Montgomery, Alabama ? or the lack of it ? has become an issue in the 2004 presidential campaign.

Recalls Memphian Mintz, now 62: ?I remember that I heard someone was coming to drill with us from Texas. And it was implied that it was somebody with political influence. I was a young bachelor then. I was looking for somebody to prowl around with.? But, says Mintz, that ?somebody? -- better known to the world now as the president of the United States -- never showed up at Dannelly in 1972. Nor in 1973, nor at any time that Mintz, a FedEx pilot now and an Eastern Airlines pilot then, when he was a reserve first lieutenant at Dannelly, can remember.

?And I was looking for him,? repeated Mintz, who said that he assumed that Bush ?changed his mind and went somewhere else? to do his substitute drill. It was not ?somewhere else,? however, but the 187th Air National Guard Tactical squadron at Dannelly to which the young Texas flyer had requested transfer from his regular Texas unit ? the reason being Bush?s wish to work in Alabama on the ultimately unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign of family friend Winton "Red" Blount.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
Although not AWOL, Bush learned to work the Reserve system to allow his non-participation. While it is not the stand-up thing to do, it was not illegal, and he earned his time by signing into a unit without pilots. He never made any statements contrary to the fact that he did not approve of the Viet-Nam war, and found a legal way to avoid it. Other VERY notable politicians in another party have done the same, but with far less hoopla from the opposition.

The issue is whether he broke regulations....he didn't. Did he play within the spirit of his obligation.....no. Unless someone has proof that he was listed as AWOL............put up or shut up. There are no records of this status, nor claims by anyone that there ever were.

As far as the infamous missed flight physical...Bush likely missed his flight physical because he had alcohol in his system. That's a no-no for pilots. Bush knew this, so to avoid legal issues, took the no-fly status. He was a party animal at the time.

Nothing to see here.....Moveon
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Originally posted by: maluckey
The issue is whether he broke regulations....he didn't.
I disagree. Bush has publically stated he flew during the period in question. I wouldn't care if he just gamed the system to minimize his service time and chances of going to Vietnam. Lots of people were able to do that, but if he didn't fly, it raises strong questions about his personal integrity and credibility.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
maluckey
"Although not AWOL, Bush learned to work the Reserve system to allow his non-participation. While it is not the stand-up thing to do, it was not illegal, and he earned his time by signing into a unit without pilots."

In his annual evaluation report, Bush's two supervising officers, Lieutenant Colonel William D. Harris Jr. and Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian, made it clear that Bush had "not been observed at" his Texas unit "during the period of report" -- the twelve month period from May 1972 through the end of April 1973.

In the comments section of this evaluation report Lieutenant Colonel Harris notes that Bush had "cleared this base on 15 May 1972, and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying role with the 187th Tac Recon Gp at Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama" (the Air National Guard Tactical Reconnaissance Group at Dannelly Air Force Base near Montgomery, Alabama).

This was incorrect. Bush didn't apply for duty at Dannelly Air Force Base until September 1972. From May until September he was in limbo, his temporary orders having been rejected. And when his orders to appear at Dannelly came through he still didn't appear. Although his instructions clearly directed Bush to report to Lieutenant Colonel William Turnipseed on the dates of "7-8 October 0730-1600, and 4-5 November 0730-1600," he never did. In interviews conducted with the Boston Globe earlier this year, both General Turnipseed and his former administration officer, Lieutenant Colonel Kenneth Lott, said that Bush never put in an appearance.




"The issue is whether he broke regulations....he didn't. Did he play within the spirit of his obligation.....no. Unless someone has proof that he was listed as AWOL............put up or shut up. There are no records of this status, nor claims by anyone that there ever were."

Who needs proof to make allegations?? Certainly not the Swifities and not me either. Isn't not reporting for duty considered brealking regulations?


"As far as the infamous missed flight physical...Bush likely missed his flight physical because he had alcohol in his system. That's a no-no for pilots. Bush knew this, so to avoid legal issues, took the no-fly status. He was a party animal at the time."

The taxpayers spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on his training so when the spoiled rich kid can't keep his "nose" clean he just doesn't want to fly anymore??? He agreed to "fulfill the obligation to the utmost of his ability"

Utmost of his ability

I guess he was just lying to keep his ass out of Vietnam and learn to fly at the taxpayers expense at the same time. He sure wasn't serious about being a pilot, even though he was being paid for it.

AWOL is absent from duty for 30 days or less. His infraction seems considerably more then that. I had friends over there that were killed while he was playing "report for duty" tag!!
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Bush has found military readiness to be a handy campaign issue. Yet even though more than two decades have passed since Bush left the Air National Guard, some military sources still bristle at his service record -- and what effect it had on readiness. "In short, for the several hundred thousand dollars we tax payers spent on getting [Bush] trained as a fighter jock, he repaid us with sixty-eight days of active duty. And God only knows if and when he ever flew on those days," concludes a military source. "I've spent more time cleaning up latrines than he did flying

This maybe the first valid complaint leveled against Bush's guard service in this thread. No doubt he could have done more drills, but he however did what was required.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison care to refute these claims?

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

Do you refute that bush completed all required training and got an honorable discharge?

There really is nothing to see here.
Why was Bush given extra time to complete his required training? Why wasn't he brought up on AWOL charges or charges of desertion? What strings did he manage to pull?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison care to refute these claims?

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

Do you refute that bush completed all required training and got an honorable discharge?

There really is nothing to see here.
Why was Bush given extra time to complete his required training? Why wasn't he brought up on AWOL charges or charges of desertion? What strings did he manage to pull?

Given extra time? What are you talking about? IF anything he left the guard 6 months early.

And once again the guard is flexible with the schedules of those in the guard.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison care to refute these claims?

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

Do you refute that bush completed all required training and got an honorable discharge?

There really is nothing to see here.

There's nothing to see here...if your BLIND

I however am not. I refute that he deserved an honorable discharge. He broke every rule in the book! He got his wings, but was 200 hours short of the required flying time. He got accepted into the Air National Guard by being moved to the head of the line even though he only a 25% score on his test. He continued to abuse and manipulate the system the whole time he was in.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison care to refute these claims?

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

Do you refute that bush completed all required training and got an honorable discharge?

There really is nothing to see here.
Why was Bush given extra time to complete his required training? Why wasn't he brought up on AWOL charges or charges of desertion? What strings did he manage to pull?

Given extra time? What are you talking about? IF anything he left the guard 6 months early.

And once again the guard is flexible with the schedules of those in the guard.


The standard policy was to put pilots who had attendance problems on active duty.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
charrison care to refute these claims?

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

Do you refute that bush completed all required training and got an honorable discharge?

There really is nothing to see here.

There's nothing to see here...if your BLIND

I however am not. I refute that he deserved an honorable discharge. He broke every rule in the book! He got his wings, but was 200 hours short of the required flying time. He got accepted into the position and moved to the head of the line with only a 25% score on his test.

I am not blind either. But there is nothing to see here. Required training was complete, honorable discharge....
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Bullshit

Did you witness GW Bush performing any National Guard Service between May 1972 and October 1973, in either Alabama or Texas? If so, you could be eligible for thousands of dollars in unclaimed reward money!! Here are the details of the Texas and Alabama rewards...or the latest reward offer, $10,000.00 for proof of service at Dannelly AFB!

If you can prove he was there, fill me in, i can always use an extra 10 Grand

Linky
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
3 blind mice, see how they run

Well actually i think it sucks that we are going back to vietnam for this campaign. Your man Kerry is sucking air because folks like you made it ok to question military records. The press has looked at his records and sees there his guard history is a nonstory. Maybe Kerry can release his records as well and make the claims against him nonstories.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Excuse me for fighting back against the SBVFTT. They started it, at least in this campaign. I don't know the particulars of who smeared John McCain or Max Mclellan,

I guess the moral of the story is, LOL, "Don't start something you can't finish." That applies to wars with foreign nations as well as Air National Guard duty.

Questions about Bush's Guard service unanswered
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Excuse me for fighting back against the SBVFTT. They started it, at least in this campaign. I don't know the particulars of who smeared John McCain or Max Mclellan,

I guess the moral of the story is, LOL, "Don't start something you can't finish." That applies to Air National Guard duty and wars with foreign nations.
Questions about Bush's Guard service unanswered

They started it? people have been questions bushs guard record for almost 5 years now...
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Maybe so, I didn't like Bush or Gore last election so I didn't bother with the hype. This year the Dem's had someone I could support, but then the SBVFTT started their smear campaign.
 
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