California folks.....RECALL, REVOLT & REPEAL!!!!

[Brovane]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage

I lived in Orange County for most of my life and am now 'refugee' in AZ. But even if there was no prop 13 the rise in property taxes wouldn't help the 40 billion dollar short fall 30 years later.

Right, but that wasn't my point. Again as I said, the tax rate changes by Prop 13 aren't the problem, it's the difficulty in budgeting caused by an extremely unstable tax base made necessary by Prop 13 that's the problem. In the stock market runup, California got huge tax receipts from capital gains taxes, etc. Now when the stock market tanked, those have pretty much disappeared. How do you deal with such huge shifts in tax revenue from year to year? That's why Prop 13 was a dumb idea... and honestly that's why the whole proposition thing is a bad idea. People didn't look at long term consequences.

Living in California all my life and South Orange County since 1978 I have a couple of perspectives.

It also doesn't help that large parts of the budget are locked in at certain % by voter referendums. Basically it is way to easy for some special interests to get Propositions onto the ballet which just creates a mess.

The state Assembly and Senate districts are Gerrymandered all to hell. So you wind up with extremists on both sides of the political spectrum since all they have to do is pander to the party base.

It requires a 2/3 vote to pass a budget which just makes the budget process a mess.

Prop 13 hasn't helped the situation creating a unstable tax revenue base.

Certainly certain politicians haven't done much to help the situation in CA.

Basically my view is you get what you pay for. Over 15 years ago Orange County voted in Measure M. A 1/2 cent sale tax for just transportation. The freeways and roads in Orange County are overall very good. It is kind of funny when you drive to LA and right around the county line you go from a 12 lane freeway to a 8 lane freeway. I don't mind paying the extra money for convenience of having better roads. I shudder when I think what the roads would be like without this.

California cannot cut its way out of this budget deficit. Arnold worked with the Democrats to propose a good alternative of tax increases and significant cuts. While I never am very happy about a tax increase however I view it as necessary. I wish the Republicans would start being a little more constructive and stop holding the state hostage. Pass the budget and lets move on.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: marincounty

You wimps need to suck it up and pay the taxes ( and the rent/mortgage) if you want to live in the most beautiful state.

^this

 

[winnar111]

Awww, California can't spend $270 million to prop up the welfare state. What a shame.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Topic: California folks.....CALL YOUR LEGISLATORS!!!!

I recommend you check the price on a moving truck for both leaving and entering California. You'll quickly realize the high demand is in leaving and you're WAY behind the curve on this one. Get out while you still can, I made the escape Dec 06.

PS, we meet a lot of fellow refugees from California.

Where is everone from California moving to?

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: dullard
California has a forced balanced budget. What do you expect. In times of good, they are forced to hire people (because the balanced budget won't let a surplus happen), when times are bad, they can't afford everyone they hired. This budget crunch has happened before and will happen again. Get rid of the stupid balanced budget rule, and your problem wouldn't be there. Sure, you can temporarilly solve it by raising taxes in a recession, but when has that ever been a good idea?

Non-balanced budget will allow for surplusses to build a war chest for when times go bad. No forced hiring in the good times, no massive problems when times are bad.

California's revenue is also dominated by capital gains taxes, in a time when capital gains are minimal, so will be the revenue. California has been systematically reducing or dropping taxes that are more steady (property or vehicle taxes for example). This problem wasn't hard to forsee.

Why is California required to have a balanced budget?
Why can't they be allowed to save money for a rainy day fund during good times to use when times are bad?

Is it something they passed in their state legislature? Is it something in their state constitution?

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Topic: California folks.....CALL YOUR LEGISLATORS!!!!

I recommend you check the price on a moving truck for both leaving and entering California. You'll quickly realize the high demand is in leaving and you're WAY behind the curve on this one. Get out while you still can, I made the escape Dec 06.

PS, we meet a lot of fellow refugees from California.

Where is everone from California moving to?

Texas and Oregon.

And frankly the Texans and Oregonians would like it if they all went back to California.

With that out of the way, the Rebuplicans are just being stupid and short sighted. It's great to fight against new taxes, no one likes them. However I think most people would rather have a functioning government (and government offices). Being obstructionist on new taxes when the state is on the verge of bankruptcy is simply cutting of your nose in spite of your face.
I will bet it will come back to haunt some of them come election time as well.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: marincounty

You wimps need to suck it up and pay the taxes ( and the rent/mortgage) if you want to live in the most beautiful state.

^this

I'll pay taxes to live here. I don't want to pay taxes for other people to live here too.

 

[filetitan]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I'm sorry, but this is what you get for being blue.

hahaha, last time I checked arnie was red and 80% of nation is blue. So... What's your excuse now. And they voted a blue president. You better just pack your ass out of the country.

I'm sure if there was a place to go, they'd leave, willingly. Name me a conservative (and white) country and I'll pack my bags tomorrow.

*crickets*

Uhmmm... why does your new country need to be white?

Because I'm white and it's easier to be productive in a country where you don't have culture clashes. I've lived in Denver, and you have parts of town that were almost like Mexico where all the billboards were in spanish, and going to little cheesers pizza and fighting with the hispanic gal behind the counter because I was speaking English seems to be counter productive. When living in diverse areas, you will learn quickly that things just don't seem to work out very well. One group of people will intimidate another. Much like we see a culture clash when we talk about red vs blue... Having blues tell reds to pack their bags and get lost is not productive and doesn't inspire me to better myself while living in a blue area. Much like minorities in this white country of ours (USA) feel intimidated by whites and are generally less productive as well for the same reasons I just mentioned.

I hope you understand.

I understand.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
The era of expecting something for nothing from Republicans is over.
FDR making fun of Reps short sighted tax policy: "We will do all, do more and it wont cost anyone ANYTHING!"

Same tired ideology of fail from the Reps, how do they expect to run the most populated and wealthy state in the country in poor times when your answer to everything is to cut taxes?

Stop spending all the states money on illegal immigrants and other handout programs.

KAPOW!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I grew up in California Costa mesa, then went to school in SLO left at 26 in 1997 and have not looked back. When we visit my parents flying into Ontario my eyes start watering from smog and you can't even see billboards 400 yards away. The traffic is suffocating the beaches are now filled with gangs and generally it's not the Socal I grew up in. If they raise taxes I think even more people will leave just because it's not worth staying anymore due to quality of life is not as good. But maybe I'm wrong - I left for a job and found other places better and an affinity for rural lifestyle more attractive than cold ass water. my parents and sister still love it though...My favorite place is deserts if I moved back it would be El Centro, Indio or something.

I'm not sure what beaches you are referring to, but the beaches here in San Diego aren't filled with gangs, the air quality isn't bad, and I had worse traffic problems in Philly than I ever have had here.

I'll give you that LA is sort of a hell hole, but it's always been a hell hole, that's nothing new.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Zebo
I grew up in California Costa mesa, then went to school in SLO left at 26 in 1997 and have not looked back. When we visit my parents flying into Ontario my eyes start watering from smog and you can't even see billboards 400 yards away. The traffic is suffocating the beaches are now filled with gangs and generally it's not the Socal I grew up in. If they raise taxes I think even more people will leave just because it's not worth staying anymore due to quality of life is not as good. But maybe I'm wrong - I left for a job and found other places better and an affinity for rural lifestyle more attractive than cold ass water. my parents and sister still love it though...My favorite place is deserts if I moved back it would be El Centro, Indio or something.

I'm not sure what beaches you are referring to, but the beaches here in San Diego aren't filled with gangs, the air quality isn't bad, and I had worse traffic problems in Philly than I ever have had here.

I'll give you that LA is sort of a hell hole, but it's always been a hell hole, that's nothing new.

Visiting La Jolla was certainly a memorable and enjoyable trip. I'd love to go back.

My trip to Oxnard.... not so much.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Brovane

Living in California all my life and South Orange County since 1978 I have a couple of perspectives.

It also doesn't help that large parts of the budget are locked in at certain % by voter referendums. Basically it is way to easy for some special interests to get Propositions onto the ballet which just creates a mess.

The state Assembly and Senate districts are Gerrymandered all to hell. So you wind up with extremists on both sides of the political spectrum since all they have to do is pander to the party base.

It requires a 2/3 vote to pass a budget which just makes the budget process a mess.

Prop 13 hasn't helped the situation creating a unstable tax revenue base.

Certainly certain politicians haven't done much to help the situation in CA.

Basically my view is you get what you pay for. Over 15 years ago Orange County voted in Measure M. A 1/2 cent sale tax for just transportation. The freeways and roads in Orange County are overall very good. It is kind of funny when you drive to LA and right around the county line you go from a 12 lane freeway to a 8 lane freeway. I don't mind paying the extra money for convenience of having better roads. I shudder when I think what the roads would be like without this.

California cannot cut its way out of this budget deficit. Arnold worked with the Democrats to propose a good alternative of tax increases and significant cuts. While I never am very happy about a tax increase however I view it as necessary. I wish the Republicans would start being a little more constructive and stop holding the state hostage. Pass the budget and lets move on.

I agree, the 2/3rds vote for a budget is a horrible, horrible idea. When in American politics can you get 67% of people to agree on anything? Not often.

One thing though, a common misconception about gerrymandering is that it creates large numbers of safe districts and recruits ideologues. The goal of gerrymandering is to maximize seats in the legislature, so generally your goal is a lot of districts where you win by narrow margins while shoving all the opponent's voters into one district where he wins an overwhelming victory. Because of this, I don't think we can really blame gerrymandering for much of the ideological extremes we've been seeing, it seems to be a self sorting mechanism, Thomas Schelling style, that's creating these ultrapartisan districts.

 

[redgtxdi]

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/johnandkenshow/



NEW MOVEMENT EDITED INTO TITLE AND PASTED INTO OP!!!


Time to get to work on behalf of the middle-class and let these bunghole polticians know that we aren't going to tolerate exhorbitant spending anymore at the expense of the taxpayers!!!!

:|

 

[nullzero]

I am not going to buy anything over $50 in stores now (except food)... Im buying all my software, tools, etc. online free of BS sales tax. I am going to vote NO with my wallet.

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/johnandkenshow/



NEW MOVEMENT EDITED INTO TITLE AND PASTED INTO OP!!!


Time to get to work on behalf of the middle-class and let these bunghole polticians know that we aren't going to tolerate exhorbitant spending anymore at the expense of the taxpayers!!!!

:|

Ya know, there's a saying in poker, "if you don't know who at the table is the sucker, then the sucker is you." Well, it applies when it comes to what state you choose to reside in also. Folks like you are far outnumbered by others like Craig234 and TheRedUnderURBed who see you as nothing more than an easy mark to pilfer tax dollars from.

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/johnandkenshow/



NEW MOVEMENT EDITED INTO TITLE AND PASTED INTO OP!!!


Time to get to work on behalf of the middle-class and let these bunghole polticians know that we aren't going to tolerate exhorbitant spending anymore at the expense of the taxpayers!!!!

:|

Ya know, there's a saying in poker, "if you don't know who at the table is the sucker, then the sucker is you." Well, it applies when it comes to what state you choose to reside in also. Folks like you are far outnumbered by others like Craig234 and TheRedUnderURBed who see you as nothing more than an easy mark to pilfer tax dollars from.

Well, safe to say we could all say that about the country too, but we're all a little brighter than that. We haven't seen serious revolt in a long time, but perhaps we're heading into unprecedented times.

Now might just be the time to reclaim coastal beauty, snow-capped mountains, amber waves of grain, Disneyland, Sea World, etc. etc.

Hang on to your butts!

 

[redgtxdi]

Political Human Sacrifice.........



http://recallmaldonado.com/ :evil:

 

[Sk8rdd00]

Maybe we can send the governor of California back in time to prevent the 2009 budget from being passed. Thus saving all of mankind.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Topic: California folks.....CALL YOUR LEGISLATORS!!!!

I recommend you check the price on a moving truck for both leaving and entering California. You'll quickly realize the high demand is in leaving and you're WAY behind the curve on this one. Get out while you still can, I made the escape Dec 06.

PS, we meet a lot of fellow refugees from California.

To raise the over all IQ of Alabama?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
The era of expecting something for nothing from Republicans is over.
FDR making fun of Reps short sighted tax policy: "We will do all, do more and it wont cost anyone ANYTHING!"

Same tired ideology of fail from the Reps, how do they expect to run the most populated and wealthy state in the country in poor times when your answer to everything is to cut taxes?

What they got was tax cuts, alright, tax cuts for the corporations, but the citizens got the tax increases. They are still balancing the budget on the backs of the poor getting poorer.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Idiocy. This is what you get when you let Republicans screw things up, from Prop 13 obliterating the commercial proiperty tax base, to their veto on any new tax - the greatest state in the nation harmed by the Republicans, but still a hell of a lot better place to live than elsewhere, still 'carrying the nation' from tech to entertainment to agriculture.

Democrats have been running the legislative show in Sacramento...sorry, can't push all of the state's problems on the Republicans.

But those Republicans have a lot of power by virtue of California's peculiar requirement to have 2/3 votes for the budget. If they do away with that it's a whole new ballgame.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
What we need is the complete collapse of government, chaos, poverty, disease, and plague. Then when somebody says that government is the problem they'll get a bullet to the head. The country is dying because of Republicans and conservative constipation.

Hah if I had a nickel every time you write something incoherent, I wouldn't have to work for the rest of my life

Nobody's making you work.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Brovane

Living in California all my life and South Orange County since 1978 I have a couple of perspectives.

It also doesn't help that large parts of the budget are locked in at certain % by voter referendums. Basically it is way to easy for some special interests to get Propositions onto the ballet which just creates a mess.

The state Assembly and Senate districts are Gerrymandered all to hell. So you wind up with extremists on both sides of the political spectrum since all they have to do is pander to the party base.

It requires a 2/3 vote to pass a budget which just makes the budget process a mess.

Prop 13 hasn't helped the situation creating a unstable tax revenue base.

Certainly certain politicians haven't done much to help the situation in CA.

Basically my view is you get what you pay for. Over 15 years ago Orange County voted in Measure M. A 1/2 cent sale tax for just transportation. The freeways and roads in Orange County are overall very good. It is kind of funny when you drive to LA and right around the county line you go from a 12 lane freeway to a 8 lane freeway. I don't mind paying the extra money for convenience of having better roads. I shudder when I think what the roads would be like without this.

California cannot cut its way out of this budget deficit. Arnold worked with the Democrats to propose a good alternative of tax increases and significant cuts. While I never am very happy about a tax increase however I view it as necessary. I wish the Republicans would start being a little more constructive and stop holding the state hostage. Pass the budget and lets move on.

I agree, the 2/3rds vote for a budget is a horrible, horrible idea. When in American politics can you get 67% of people to agree on anything? Not often.

One thing though, a common misconception about gerrymandering is that it creates large numbers of safe districts and recruits ideologues. The goal of gerrymandering is to maximize seats in the legislature, so generally your goal is a lot of districts where you win by narrow margins while shoving all the opponent's voters into one district where he wins an overwhelming victory. Because of this, I don't think we can really blame gerrymandering for much of the ideological extremes we've been seeing, it seems to be a self sorting mechanism, Thomas Schelling style, that's creating these ultrapartisan districts.

Your explanation of how it works is right, but the conclusion is not - you correctly explained why the majority party's gerrymandering causes 'moderates' of that party to get elected in narrower races, but as yousaid, the minority party has as many of its voters crammed together as possible, which results in the hardcore candidates far from the center to get elected tfrom that party. I.e., relatively moderate Dems and relatively extreme Republicans.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Idiocy. This is what you get when you let Republicans screw things up, from Prop 13 obliterating the commercial proiperty tax base, to their veto on any new tax - the greatest state in the nation harmed by the Republicans, but still a hell of a lot better place to live than elsewhere, still 'carrying the nation' from tech to entertainment to agriculture.

Democrats have been running the legislative show in Sacramento...sorry, can't push all of the state's problems on the Republicans.

But those Republicans have a lot of power by virtue of California's peculiar requirement to have 2/3 votes for the budget. If they do away with that it's a whole new ballgame.

You can push the ones that are their policies. The issues mentions are the Prop 13 gutting of the commercial property tax, and the blocking of any taxes to balance the budget.

Those are both Republican policies.

They can be blamed for them.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You can push the ones that are their policies. The issues mentions are the Prop 13 gutting of the commercial property tax, and the blocking of any taxes to balance the budget.

Prop 13 was perhaps short sighted on the Republicans' part, but there is nothing wrong with blocking new taxes to balance the budget.

If you give Democrats in Sacramento tax revenues, they will find ways to spend it...if CA Democrats could demonstrate fiscal restraint matched with minor tax increases, I think we can all agree that a balanced budget is a good thing.

But CA politicians are so beholden to special interests, that the money is spend before it is even collected.