News California judge sides with teachers who say their religion requires them to out trans kids

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kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,015
1,321
136
I've known multiple kids that waited years to come out to their parents, even though they're parents couldn't care less. Kids are scared to tell their parents lots of things.
Yea, I don't think your anecdotal evidence is going to convince me here. In any case, do you think it's a good idea for these kids to be outed when they are not ready to tell their parents even though their parents couldn't care less? Or would it be better to first understand why they are not ready to tell their parents?
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,721
10,156
136
Yea, I don't think your anecdotal evidence is going to convince me here. In any case, do you think it's a good idea for these kids to be outed when they are not ready to tell their parents even though their parents couldn't care less? Or would it be better to first understand why they are not ready to tell their parents?
I think it strongly depends on the circumstances, lots of kids won't seek council with their parents when it would be in their benefit. But there are times that parents knowing wouldn't be in the child's benefit. As for my anecdotal evidence, I thought it was pretty widely accepted most teens aren't great communicators with their parents, regardless of how compassionate those parents are. Especially when it's a subject about how they aren't "normal."

Regardless, I don't think there is a religious right to out kids, that's fucking stupid.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,615
4,067
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Andrea Yates?

Our problem might start when all parents are presumed guilty, treated as such, and denied any say in their child's lives. Especially on such important topics.
If the child felt it safe at home to communicate with his parents would have. the child must have felt it a hostile environment to talk of such issues.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,542
5,063
136
That's an interesting question.
I am no expert on excluding parents from their children's lives. I appreciate there are circumstances where abuse may occur, but to presume all parents are automatically guilty of abuse to the point of lying to and hiding critical (mental) health information of ALL children from ALL parents.... To automatically deprive all parents of parental rights. That's one hell of a mess to sort out.
So, teachers are trained in diagnosing psychological/mental and physical symptoms and their underlying causes? What medical schools do you think teachers attend in their spare time?

So, now not only are teachers expected to teach a subject(s), they’re supposed to be professionally trained armed guards (arm all the teachers crap) and be medical/psychological professionals and properly diagnose kids’ thoughts vis a vis talking about gender

Sheesh.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,115
5,644
126
So, teachers are trained in diagnosing psychological/mental and physical symptoms and their underlying causes? What medical schools do you think teachers attend in their spare time?

So, now not only are teachers expected to teach a subject(s), they’re supposed to be professionally trained armed guards (arm all the teachers crap) and be medical/psychological professionals and properly diagnose kids’ thoughts vis a vis talking about gender

Sheesh.

Each new task should be +$1k/month.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,001
7,422
136
Good. I fucking hate kids and I hope more of them kill themselves stupid moochy fucktards.
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/S juuuuuust in case
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,699
2,184
136
I support the religious right to jump off a bridge. I wish interstellar travel* could get here quicker, then either the religious nuts of all stripes could leave the Earth or the rest of us could, I don't care which. They can all go to the same planet and have holy wars for eternity.

*And no I don't think this is feasible nor do I think our societies will last long enough to develop the tech, even shooting DNA and nanobots off to distant stars (which makes a lot more sense than sending huge air-filled ships full of meatbags.)
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,605
3,445
136
I think it strongly depends on the circumstances, lots of kids won't seek council with their parents when it would be in their benefit. But there are times that parents knowing wouldn't be in the child's benefit. As for my anecdotal evidence, I thought it was pretty widely accepted most teens aren't great communicators with their parents, regardless of how compassionate those parents are. Especially when it's a subject about how they aren't "normal."

Regardless, I don't think there is a religious right to out kids, that's fucking stupid.

That's why I proactively let my kids know as long as they live by the golden rule, I'll accept them no matter what.

These people who freak out because their kids want to use different pronouns at school are telling on themselves. And you can definitely tell why the kids didn't want to say anything.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,883
9,985
136
IMO 1A needs to be revised to say something along the lines of protecting one's right to freedom of religious belief but only insofar as one can only make belief-based choices to affect one's own life and no-one else's. At the moment it seems that 1A is being interpreted to allow religious followers to make up random bullshit and force everyone to abide by it otherwise it's infringing on their random bullshit.

IMO ideally the reference to religious belief should simply be removed. The era it was intended for is over (e.g. a monarch tries to enforce their sky-fairy beliefs on their people, tries to eliminate followers of other religions). Without it you simply have a right to believe whatever you want to believe, whether AMD is better than Intel/NVIDIA, ketchup goes in hotdogs, Pink Floyd is better than Taylor Swift, who gives a crap. Having said that, if it was removed, I bet the GQP would have a field day with "wrong religions".
 

VashHT

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2007
3,071
876
136
This whole thing is idiotic anyways, if they force teachers to inform parents of this then kids will just stop revealing it to teachers/counselors and try to hide it even more which doesn't sound healthy really.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,315
12,541
136
I've known multiple kids that waited years to come out to their parents, even though they're parents couldn't care less. Kids are scared to tell their parents lots of things.
I've known multiple kids whose parents were LGBTQ+ allies, up until the moment it was their own kid that came out to them--and the parent still supported everyone else, but not their own kid.
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,462
1,322
136
Yea, I don't think your anecdotal evidence is going to convince me here. In any case, do you think it's a good idea for these kids to be outed when they are not ready to tell their parents even though their parents couldn't care less? Or would it be better to first understand why they are not ready to tell their parents?
I'm trans and intersex. Yes, it happens. I was caught crossdressing as a child and my mom freaked out. I was yelled at and asked, "do you want to be a freak?"

Later in life I transitioned and talked with my parents who are now much more supportive. In the 80s and 90s, if I didn't do a good enough job hiding, they would have taken me to conversion therapy.

I actually came out to my pastor at the time. I think I was 16. Thank God, he had no clue what to do. I was essentially told the equivalent of "pray more" and that was it. I'm 41 now. I finally told my parents when I was 39.

Outing kids can be dangerous. Conversion therapy doesn't work but is available in many states. Just send your kids to "camp." No mental or physical trauma goes on there. /s
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,721
10,156
136
I've known multiple kids whose parents were LGBTQ+ allies, up until the moment it was their own kid that came out to them--and the parent still supported everyone else, but not their own kid.
Yeah, I'm sure that happens. It also happens the other way, bigoted until it's their kid then accept it. See Dick Cheney.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,444
48,773
136
IMO 1A needs to be revised to say something along the lines of protecting one's right to freedom of religious belief but only insofar as one can only make belief-based choices to affect one's own life and no-one else's. At the moment it seems that 1A is being interpreted to allow religious followers to make up random bullshit and force everyone to abide by it otherwise it's infringing on their random bullshit.

IMO ideally the reference to religious belief should simply be removed. The era it was intended for is over (e.g. a monarch tries to enforce their sky-fairy beliefs on their people, tries to eliminate followers of other religions). Without it you simply have a right to believe whatever you want to believe, whether AMD is better than Intel/NVIDIA, ketchup goes in hotdogs, Pink Floyd is better than Taylor Swift, who gives a crap. Having said that, if it was removed, I bet the GQP would have a field day with "wrong religions".
This is how it was (broadly) interpreted until recently. Then maybe 15 years ago or so SCOTUS changed it to the idea that religious people can opt out of any law they don’t like.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
2,595
136
It's a ridiculous ruling. The rule says you cannot discuss this with parents because it's the school and school administrators responsibility to do so at their discretion (they generally do not wish to do so). How is that a violation of your religion? It's simply saying this responsibility is not yours. There's nothing in the bible that says a person must report all sins to all parents all the time.
It's no different than if a kid got in trouble for stealing or fighting and the cops said "hey don't discuss the case". If one of these asshat teachers said it's against my religion to not tell the parents right away because stealing and fighting are sins (they are far more clearly sins than transgenderism for sure), they'd be laughed out of the room.
 
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