Call of Duty: Black Ops

[Kev]

Then I went into the theater to watch the replay, ever since then every match I am in is slideshow city. Sigh.

 

[coldmeat]

Then I went into the theater to watch the replay, ever since then every match I am in is slideshow city. Sigh.

That happens to me too. I figured it was my hard drive though, because my hard drive has had problems since day 1.

 

[Kabob]

The only thing I really liked better about MW2 were the maps. I really feel like the gameplay is more balanced, the perks and killstreaks make more sense, there is nothing that just pisses me off like the commando pro or damage close stuff, a lot of the shit I even used to do seemed cheap at the time (scavanger with claymores) is now gone.

There may have been more fun with some of that stuff, but I believe that the game is better off without it.

I think the maps, though, really aren't as good as the MW2 ones. There isn't a single "great" map in black ops.

Maps are definitely a weak point for Black Ops. I think that one of the issues is that several of the maps have a clear "superior side" to start on, with CoD 4 and MW2 the majority are quite balanced. I HATE starting on the low side on Jungle or Summit, whilst others tend to just degrade into a "chase each other around a circle" game.

Anyone else want to team-up for some Demolition?

You need to get online earlier. I'm not avoiding you but by the time you get online I'm already in a full party!!!

went 41-4 in TDM on Array. I AM A GOD.

Bah, child's play! I did the same thing whilst talking on the phone, preparing all my tax info, and making dinner!

 

[velillen]

Ninja pro can help with the footsteps too.

Yeha i ran ninja pro at first but really found no reason too except in my "all stealth class". I hear other peoples footsteps surprisingly well and didnt really notice that much of a difference with ninja pro. Did notice myself being much quiter

 

[BD2003]

So in conclusion, you have seen trends without actually analyzing why they are trends, and you are basing imbalance on what other people are choosing, instead on any actual imbalance. Because there isn't any. If you want imbalance, go play BC2 where an LMG can't actually kill shit.

That's not true at all. All you have to do is look at the stats to see how bad they fucked it up. And I don't mean the liar stat bars in game, let's look at the actual stats.

Starting with the smgs - first scratch the mac11, kiparis and pm63 off your list of guns - they are both mathematically inferior to the spectre, all by a 50% reduction in clip size, and reserve ammo, which is a HUGE deal for a run an gun smg, and on top of that pm63 and kiparis especially are even worse on accuracy. There's literally no reason to use them over the spectre except for some placebo effect that might make you think there is.

Then scratch off the Uzi, which is simply a less accurate (by a lot) mpl.

Don't bother with the skorpion at all, since it's primary advantage over other smgs is long range accuracy, and if that's what you're looking for, don't use an smg at all.

Now you're down to the ak74 and mp5. Both have same damage and fire rate, but the ak74 has more controllable recoil and reloads about 50% faster. So again, there's a clear winner here.

So you've basically got three real choices out of nine smgs. You can believe otherwise, but you'd be wrong. And in my experience, 90%+ of people running an smg are running one of those three.

I could go through the other classes as well, but it feels like this is all falling on deaf ears anyway. This is not how the weapons used to be in every other CoD game. There was never before a situation where some weapons were mathematically better than others with zero drawbacks. The balance simply isn't well thought out.

For those of you who like to pick a few weapons and stick with them, this isn't a big deal, as you simply won't stick with the inferior ones. I personally liked to use all weapons for varietys sake in previous CoDs, but it's not nearly as fun in BO when you know you're literally handicapping yourself.

 

[BD2003]

Basically, they made a lot of good design decisions in comparison to mw2, but the two most essential elements are lacking. The guns, the fundamental way you interact with the game, are not well balanced. I suppose they intentionally want some weapons to be better than others, but that's just an awful decision. Then the maps, the fundamental world you're interacting with, are just so god awful bland.

It's too bad you can't combine the perks, gimped noob tube, currency and no killstreak stacking of BO with the guns and maps of MW2. That would be a damn near perfect experience.

 

[Anubis]

running a silenced shotgun is silly and hilarious at the same time.
pfft pfft pfft
dead people

 

[Kabob]

Ya know, as much as I enjoy Black Ops and MW2 I secretly wish that everyone would go back to playing CoD 4, IW would release more maps, etc. I know, I can't live in the past but my GOSH that game was phenominal!

 

[dougp]

That's not true at all. All you have to do is look at the stats to see how bad they fucked it up. And I don't mean the liar stat bars in game, let's look at the actual stats.

Starting with the smgs - first scratch the mac11, kiparis and pm63 off your list of guns - they are both mathematically inferior to the spectre, all by a 50% reduction in clip size, and reserve ammo, which is a HUGE deal for a run an gun smg, and on top of that pm63 and kiparis especially are even worse on accuracy. There's literally no reason to use them over the spectre except for some placebo effect that might make you think there is.

Then scratch off the Uzi, which is simply a less accurate (by a lot) mpl.

Don't bother with the skorpion at all, since it's primary advantage over other smgs is long range accuracy, and if that's what you're looking for, don't use an smg at all.

Now you're down to the ak74 and mp5. Both have same damage and fire rate, but the ak74 has more controllable recoil and reloads about 50% faster. So again, there's a clear winner here.

So you've basically got three real choices out of nine smgs. You can believe otherwise, but you'd be wrong. And in my experience, 90%+ of people running an smg are running one of those three.

I could go through the other classes as well, but it feels like this is all falling on deaf ears anyway. This is not how the weapons used to be in every other CoD game. There was never before a situation where some weapons were mathematically better than others with zero drawbacks. The balance simply isn't well thought out.

For those of you who like to pick a few weapons and stick with them, this isn't a big deal, as you simply won't stick with the inferior ones. I personally liked to use all weapons for varietys sake in previous CoDs, but it's not nearly as fun in BO when you know you're literally handicapping yourself.

Most people who play the game aren't like you. And I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with your viewpoint. I see all kinds of weapons being used in the game, because everyone handles them differently.

Side note, Kabob - I've been running with the FAL and find it to be better than the M14. I know you said the FAL has bad recoil, but I notice it's a bit better at range because it clumps as opposed to rises. One of my favorite classes right now is FAL w/ GL, RPG, Semtex, Flashbang, C4, Hardline Pro, SoH Pro and Marathon or Hacker. Man, on Domination I freaking own it up. For regular games I go with the FAL + Reflex, RPG, Semtex, Flashbang, C4, HLP, SoH P and Hacker.

 

[BD2003]

So what are you saying then, that someone can magically make a inferior weapon better by the way they hold the controller? Or that using a inferior weapon is an advantage in some roundabout way?

I'm honestly struggling to understand this POV. Why wouldn't everyone want it so all weapons are viable in some way? How is the presence of mathematically strictly better weapons a good thing, or at worst an irrelevant thing?

 

[Kabob]

Side note, Kabob - I've been running with the FAL and find it to be better than the M14. I know you said the FAL has bad recoil, but I notice it's a bit better at range because it clumps as opposed to rises. One of my favorite classes right now is FAL w/ GL, RPG, Semtex, Flashbang, C4, Hardline Pro, SoH Pro and Marathon or Hacker. Man, on Domination I freaking own it up. For regular games I go with the FAL + Reflex, RPG, Semtex, Flashbang, C4, HLP, SoH P and Hacker.

Meh, I can't convert 'em all. Buc has been running the M14 like crazy lately.

 

[dougp]

So what are you saying then, that someone can magically make a inferior weapon better by the way they hold the controller? Or that using a inferior weapon is an advantage in some roundabout way?

I'm honestly struggling to understand this POV. Why wouldn't everyone want it so all weapons are viable in some way. How is the presence of mathematically strictly better weapons a good thing, or even an irrelevant thing?

It has nothing to do with how they hold the controller. It has everything to do with how someone plays, their reaction speed and how they feel they can control a weapon. There are a LOT of people out there who like to spray-n-pray - there were so many times yesterday that I should have died up close because someone had the first shot on me, but they held down their trigger and started missing and I was able to put two shots from my FAL into them. I always recommend guns to friends, and they give me reasons why they hate them - and most of my friends are the majority of gamers on XBL, not people like us who crunch the numbers.

I'm one of those players that HATES to play like everyone else. I'm getting close to dropping HLP and going with LWP since I don't have any fall damage.

 

[dougp]

Meh, I can't convert 'em all. Buc has been running the M14 like crazy lately.

I'll give it a try again, maybe I'll forgo the grip, but it seems to jump a lot.

 

[BD2003]

It has nothing to do with how they hold the controller. It has everything to do with how someone plays, their reaction speed and how they feel they can control a weapon. There are a LOT of people out there who like to spray-n-pray - there were so many times yesterday that I should have died up close because someone had the first shot on me, but they held down their trigger and started missing and I was able to put two shots from my FAL into them. I always recommend guns to friends, and they give me reasons why they hate them - and most of my friends are the majority of gamers on XBL, not people like us who crunch the numbers.

I'm one of those players that HATES to play like everyone else. I'm getting close to dropping HLP and going with LWP since I don't have any fall damage.

That has nothing to do with the particular weapons though.

I like to spray and pray too. The mac11 and spectre are basically identical except the spectre has 50% more bullets in clip and reserve. Why would anyone who knew this want to use the mac11?

 

[bucwylde23]

Meh, I can't convert 'em all. Buc has been running the M14 like crazy lately.

I really love it, it was the one assault rifle I never used. I will say I think I can fire off rounds on the FAL faster but I seem to be more accurate when fighting multiple enemies with the M14.

 

[dougp]

That has nothing to do with the particular weapons though.

I like to spray and pray too. The mac11 and spectre are basically identical except the spectre has 50% more bullets in clip and reserve. Why would anyone who knew this want to use the mac11?

Because people prefer how one works over another. Sorry, but people do care how cool things looked - honest to god, that's the main reason I used the F2000 in MW2

 

[Anubis]

TBH most people dont care about 90% of what you guys are arguing about, they use what they like using for whatever reasons they may have

 

[JoPh]

this arguement over weapons is getting old. instead of bitching be helpful on how to use guns etc..

like our conversation on the m14 fal.. this weapon superiority thing is old.

 

[BD2003]

Because people prefer how one works over another. Sorry, but people do care how cool things looked - honest to god, that's the main reason I used the F2000 in MW2

Sure, one could want to deliberately handicap themselves to use a weapon they thought looked cooler. If you're more concerned with looks than a 50% clip reduction more power to you, but I suspect you'd be in the minority if you actually understood one is fundamentally better than the other.

It not as if they couldn't have differentiated them if they cared to. They could have given the mac11 a tighter hip spread, or a faster fire rate, or a significantly faster reload. Something to, you know, balance the difference between it and the spectre. But they didn't, and that sucks.

It might not matter to some, maybe most people. But its just another one of those areas where BO falls short where it didn't need to.

 

[bucwylde23]

this arguement over weapons is getting old. instead of bitching be helpful on how to use guns etc..

like our conversation on the m14 fal.. this weapon superiority thing is old.

Amen, I don't care mathematically about any of the weapons. I play with the weapons that feel good to me I don't care if it's clearly "inferior". I use every AR and some LMG's while completing challenges and never have problems getting shitloads of kills with any of them.

I see a huge variety of all the weapons out there, all the time. I've even begun to run into some REALLY good snipers that have figured out how to adapt to the play style of black ops. It's still early in this game, I think peoplea re still adjusting somewhat from MW2.

 

[Kabob]

like our conversation on the m14 fal.. this weapon superiority thing is old.

:'(

 

[BD2003]

this arguement over weapons is getting old. instead of bitching be helpful on how to use guns etc..

like our conversation on the m14 fal.. this weapon superiority thing is old.

I can't see how I could possibly be more helpful than by pointing out why you should only use the 3 best smgs.

For full auto ARs, use the famas/aug, or the commando/galil if you really cant handle the high ROF of the better famas/aug. The rest are inferior.

For lmgs, use the m60, maybe the stoner. The rpk is poor in it role, and the hk21 is a slow AR.

For snipers, use the wa2000 or L96. WA2000 has less recoil than dragunov and psg1 with the same damage and sway. The l96 extends the one shot kill to the stomach, but has significantly more recoil.

For burst, the m16 slightly outranges the one burst kill range of the g11, but the g11 fires significantly faster, has better irons, and is overall superior at the range you'd generally want a burst fire rifle.

Semi auto is quite interesting. The m14 recoils straight up, the fall bounces around. Both have the same center speed so accuracy is technically the same, but sustained fire will give you a spread on the fal but a vertical line on the m14. This may cause a headshot, but it may cause all bullets to fly overhead where the spread of the fal might still net you the kill. I prefer the m14, but there's no clear winner here.

Limit yourself to those superior weapons and you've got an undeniable edge. Might as well take advantage of it if you know it.

 

[Tek_Ed]

Limit yourself to those superior weapons and you've got an undeniable edge. Might as well take advantage of it if you know it.

^ This :thumbsup:

G11, FAMAS, M16, L96 for me = ^K/D

 

[dougp]

Limit yourself to those superior weapons and you've got an undeniable edge. Might as well take advantage of it if you know it.

Weapons do not a player make. Or whatever that oddball term is.

You're acting like a weapon will make or break a player - simply, they don't. Yes, I do bad ass with a Galil, and I LOVE maps where I can go 43-9 or whatever. Who wouldn't pass up a 4:1 ration? Would I do better with say, the Famas? Close range, perhaps - but at a distance, the recoil can mess you up.

The argument is pointless though, and we should probably stop going back and for BD2k3.

 

[bucwylde23]

:'(

Just remembered you had a great shot last night on Havana when the dude was diving onto B. I unloaded half a magazine into his dead body since I didn't realize you killed him before he touched the ground.