Call of Duty: Black Ops

[GrantMeThePower]

sorry to change the console battle talk, but i may have to eat a bit of crow and call myself a convert.

I gave the FAMAS another try last night. The first couple of rounds felt like i was cheating. I dont know what was wrong with me the first time i tried it. I felt like it had too much recoil which doesn't make any sense because last night it seemed as if i was shooting a laser gun. It barely moves at all, but shoots so fast. The iron sights are, unlike the AUG, good enough to not need a sight (second, IMO, after the commando).

FAMAS is a winner.

 

[Stuxnet]

I can name several PS3 games that graphically destroy any 3rd party game you can bring up, as a matter of fact, most(if not all) 3rd party game get smoked by first party games on PS3.

Gee whiz, really?

Gears of War - the ORIGINAL Gears of War - smokes all third party games on the Xbox, too. GoW, released in 2006, absolutely destroys Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops. When you're not worried about a port, you're free to do a helluva lot more.

Breaking news: first party games look better than third party ports on ANY console. Full story at 11.

Any other earth-shattering news?

 

[purbeast0]

There is now reason for ports to run so poorly, have lower texture depth and have lower framerates. Reason i stick with first party games most of the time, most third party, multi console developers focus on improving the version of the game that shells out the most money. I can name several PS3 games that graphically destroy any 3rd party game you can bring up, as a matter of fact, most(if not all) 3rd party game get smoked by first party games on PS3.

Theoretically, my heart is not broken, i needed something to feed my FPS needs for a little bit, once KZ3 comes out, BO is gone.

Either way, Third party developers aren't having issues porting the games to PS3, they are just too fucking lazy to put in the effort, that is a fact.

sorry my bad, didn't realize you were a professional ps3 game developer, let alone a developer at all.

 

[purbeast0]

Gee whiz, really?

Gears of War - the ORIGINAL Gears of War - smokes all third party games on the Xbox, too. GoW, released in 2006, absolutely destroys Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops. When you're not worried about a port, you're free to do a helluva lot more.

Breaking news: first party games look better than third party ports on ANY console. Full story at 11.

Any other earth-shattering news?

this earth-shattering news even dates back to SNES/Genesis days ... WHO WOULDA THOUGHT?!?!?

 

[Stuxnet]

sorry to change the console battle talk, but i may have to eat a bit of crow and call myself a convert.

I gave the FAMAS another try last night. The first couple of rounds felt like i was cheating. I dont know what was wrong with me the first time i tried it. I felt like it had too much recoil which doesn't make any sense because last night it seemed as if i was shooting a laser gun. It barely moves at all, but shoots so fast. The iron sights are, unlike the AUG, good enough to not need a sight (second, IMO, after the commando).

FAMAS is a winner.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat with you. I condemned the FAMAS at first. Recently I realized that it's just about trigger oontrol. In short bursts, it can't be beat. Now if you go full auto with the thing, it's going to go all over the place and there are more forgiving guns for that (the Galil, for instance).

But if you have good trigger discipline, the FAMAS is great.

 

[RavenSEAL]

sorry my bad, didn't realize you were a professional ps3 game developer, let alone a developer at all.

What does that have anything to do with being a developer?

 

[Stuxnet]

What does that have anything to do with being a developer?

He was saying you were talking out of your ass, but in a nice way.

I'm more of a to-the-point kind of fella: you're talking out of your ass.

 

[BD2003]

What does that have anything to do with being a developer?

He's pointing to the fact that you are clearly incapable of understanding that there really are technical impediments here. Your statement that there's no reason why it can't run as well on the ps3 as it does on the 360 is simply wrong.

 

[purbeast0]

What does that have anything to do with being a developer?

cause you seem to know that ...

There is now reason for ports to run so poorly, have lower texture depth and have lower framerates.

and

Third party developers aren't having issues porting the games to PS3, they are just too fucking lazy to put in the effort, that is a fact.

only someone who is a developer can know these things ... as facts.

so what is your best selling game?

 

[RavenSEAL]

cause you seem to know that ...



and



only someone who is a developer can know these things ... as facts.

so what is your best selling game?

Really? This stuff has nothing to do with game developing, it's common logic. It is not impossible to do a perfect console port, it'll never be, some developers just don't want to put in the time.

 

[purbeast0]

Really? This stuff has nothing to do with game developing, it's common logic. It is not impossible to do a perfect console port, it'll never be, some developers just don't want to put in the time.

lol okay. funny how you are the only person in this thread who understands this 'common logic'

guess the rest of us are just dumb and wrong.

 

[RavenSEAL]

lol okay. funny how you are the only person in this thread who understands this 'common logic'

guess the rest of us are just dumb and wrong.

I'm not saying any of you are dumb and wrong, the developers are.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm not saying any of you are dumb and wrong, the developers are.

so you are calling yourself dumb since you are a ps3 dev?

 

[Stuxnet]

I'm not saying any of you are dumb and wrong, the developers are.

You mean the actual people making the games - the EXPERTS - are dumb and wrong?

BD2003 has offered 2 or 3 times to explain the details behind the technical limitations, but you've shown no interest in hearing them. Are you afraid you're wrong?

 

[BD2003]

Really? This stuff has nothing to do with game developing, it's common logic. It is not impossible to do a perfect console port, it'll never be, some developers just don't want to put in the time.

It's not impossible if they aim for the worst case scenario on the ps3. This will necessarily drag down the 360. They chose not to sacrifice the quality of the 360 version just to satisfy ps3 fanboys. I'm thankful for that.

 

[purbeast0]

You mean the actual people making the games - the EXPERTS - are dumb and wrong?

BD2003 has offered 2 or 3 times to explain the details behind the technical limitations, but you've shown no interest in hearing them. Are you afraid you're wrong?

yea they are so dumb that they created one of the biggest selling titles ever ... what a bunch of idiots!

he still hasn't told us what game he has devved though, maybe his has sold more.

 

[Stuxnet]

I'm a software developer. I don't write games and have never worked on games outside of a few mods I wrote in my downtime at work almost a decade ago.

The software that I am responsible for can be installed on a multitude of platforms (Window 2003 Server, Windows 2008 Server, Linux, etc) and access one of several major database products (SQL Server 20xx, Oracle, etc). This variety PALES in comparison to what game developers face, and I can vouch for the untold amount of money and time it would take to optimize and perfect for each permutation. It's not possible to accomplish that and get the product out in a reasonable amount of time, let alone at a reasonable cost.

Adding a feature that taps into a platform's API means writing it not once, but 5 or 6 times. Then testing it. Optimizing that feature for each individual platform amplifies the time and money involved so, honestly, we usually don't. We know that we could shave a few seconds off an operation or make something a little more flashy on any given platform, but the aggregate affect of that mindset for our development would run us out of business because we'd never actually ship the fucking product.

 

[RavenSEAL]

Think of it this way: Let's say i own a computer repair service, i get called by two different people with the exact same issue, the hard drive need to be replaced, one has an HP, the other one an eMachines.

I go to the home of the person with the eMachines computer, i fix the computer and put in the new hard hard drive that will be specific to that model. The computer is fixed and runs with no issues. I get paid $100 bucks.


Then, i go to the home of the person with the HP, it turns out that HP has issues with certain hard drives and i'm too lazy to wait to repair the computer while the specific hard drive comes in, so i just put in the hard drive from the eMachines computer, format it and somehow make it run "mediocre", the person pays me $100 bucks.

Turns out the person who's HDD i replaced with a non specific, broken model get's pissed because the computer is still not working right. I tell that person that i put in the hard drive and it worked, regardless of how it actually performed and that they can go screw themselves while i enjoy their money.

Does that seem fair at all? That's pretty much what 3arch did.

 

[GrantMeThePower]

If we're going to stay focused on the ports, then i guess i'll throw my two cents in.

Its amazing...frankly increadible, that they can have the game come out on the same day for both consoles looking and working as well as it does. We are all freakin lucky to have that.

That being said, i own both a xbox and a ps3. I think the ps3 is a better machine. That being said, i play the xbox way more. Ports are almost always better on the xbox. More of my friends are on live, and like the way the live works for online.

Uncharted and uncharted 2 may be two of my favorite games of all times and i think killzone 2 is still the best looking game i've ever seen.

The first xbox's were built like crap. I'm on my third and finally they dont have problems and dont break.

I realize that i am also fortunate to own both and not have to choose one system, instead choosing game by game which to get.

Bottom line is...we have amazing games. These arguments get old and its taking away from what the focus of this thread should be.

 

[RavenSEAL]

If we're going to stay focused on the ports, then i guess i'll throw my two cents in.

Its amazing...frankly increadible, that they can have the game come out on the same day for both consoles looking and working as well as it does. We are all freakin lucky to have that.

That being said, i own both a xbox and a ps3. I think the ps3 is a better machine. That being said, i play the xbox way more. Ports are almost always better on the xbox. More of my friends are on live, and like the way the live works for online.

Uncharted and uncharted 2 may be two of my favorite games of all times and i think killzone 2 is still the best looking game i've ever seen.

The first xbox's were built like crap. I'm on my third and finally they dont have problems and dont break.

I realize that i am also fortunate to own both and not have to choose one system, instead choosing game by game which to get.

Bottom line is...we have amazing games. These arguments get old and its taking away from what the focus of this thread should be.

No worries, i'm done here, i've made my point, and since apparently everyone else here are developers, they know more than me.

 

[purbeast0]

No worries, i'm done here, i've made my point, and since apparently everyone else here are developers, they know more than me.

actually i am a developer. i've been doing software development for almost 6 years now professionally, and I do stuff on my own time for mobile platforms as well. so i know a thing or two about development. never done games other than in school, but i understand what is involved in making them and creating them.

and the only point you've made is how stupid you are and how hard headed you are about listening to people who are more knowledgeable on the subject at hand. then you go on to make an awful analogy comparing creating a AAA video game title to changing a HDD in a PC.

 

[Stuxnet]

Think of it this way: Let's say i own a computer repair service, i get called by two different people with the exact same issue, the hard drive need to be replaced, one has an HP, the other one an eMachines.

I go to the home of the person with the eMachines computer, i fix the computer and put in the new hard hard drive that will be specific to that model. The computer is fixed and runs with no issues. I get paid $100 bucks.


Then, i go to the home of the person with the HP, it turns out that HP has issues with certain hard drives and i'm too lazy to wait to repair the computer while the specific hard drive comes in, so i just put in the hard drive from the eMachines computer, format it and somehow make it run "mediocre", the person pays me $100 bucks.

Turns out the person who's HDD i replaced with a non specific, broken model get's pissed because the computer is still not working right. I tell that person that i put in the hard drive and it worked, regardless of how it actually performed and that they can go screw themselves while i enjoy their money.

Does that seem fair at all? That's pretty much what 3arch did.

Are you seriously comparing swapping out hard drives to writing cutting edge code on aging consoles? Are you bloody kidding me?!

 

[BD2003]

Think of it this way: Let's say i own a computer repair service, i get called by two different people with the exact same issue, the hard drive need to be replaced, one has an HP, the other one an eMachines.

I go to the home of the person with the eMachines computer, i fix the computer and put in the new hard hard drive that will be specific to that model. The computer is fixed and runs with no issues. I get paid $100 bucks.


Then, i go to the home of the person with the HP, it turns out that HP has issues with certain hard drives and i'm too lazy to wait to repair the computer while the specific hard drive comes in, so i just put in the hard drive from the eMachines computer, format it and somehow make it run "mediocre", the person pays me $100 bucks.

Turns out the person who's HDD i replaced with a non specific, broken model get's pissed because the computer is still not working right. I tell that person that i put in the hard drive and it worked, regardless of how it actually performed and that they can go screw themselves while i enjoy their money.

Does that seem fair at all? That's pretty much what 3arch did.

That's not at all what they did. You'd think on the message board for a technical pc hardware site the level of understanding really basic stuff like why having separate vertex and pixel shaders presents a serious issue vs unified shaders, to use a small example.

It'd actually be a really interesting discussion between the advantages/disadvantages hardware wise between the two consoles, but that rarely can happen without the discussion deteriorating very very quickly.

 

[Stuxnet]

No worries, i'm done here, i've made my point, and since apparently everyone else here are developers, they know more than me.

Yes, in fact we do. If you're not a developer, you can't possibly comprehend the challenges behind multiplatform development. All you know is what's spood-fed to you by IGN.

The non-homogeneous nature of my target audience is the single biggest challenge I face as a developer and the single biggest time/money vacuum in the cycle, and I don't even have to write code that targets CPU- and GPU-specific instruction sets. My biggest concern is what database my customer is willing to purchase.

 

[RavenSEAL]

That's not at all what they did. You'd think on the message board for a technical pc hardware site the level of understanding really basic stuff like why having separate vertex and pixel shaders presents a serious issue vs unified shaders, to use a small example.

It'd actually be a really interesting discussion between the advantages/disadvantages hardware wise between the two consoles, but that rarely can happen without the discussion deteriorating very very quickly.

The hardware on both consoles are fine, we all know it's the developers.

Stuxnet proved my point, it can be done, but the developers are just too damn lazy.