Canadian Election 2011

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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Wow, that thing has been up for 2 or 3 days and its gotten 570k runs. Impressive.
I'm more curious to see what it says Americans should vote for.


Back during some US election, some US website told me to vote for Dennis Kucinich. I have no idea who that is!
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
According to the survey I should vote Liberal. You can check the party platform on the issues too.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
How about the F35 Lobbyist that is now a Conservative candidate? I couldn't believe it when I heard that.

I think that may be because your instincts are telling you something's amiss with reporting on that item. Are you referring to the Toronto Star article Tory candidate lobbied for firm selling F-35 jets? You likely didn't notice that buried in the story, in the 12th or 13th paragraph is the sentence, "There is no record of Sturgeon having met with any government officials, but there are shiny new pictures on his Facebook page of the candidate sharing an intimate moment with Harper in the Prime Minister’s Office."

It's been rightly denounced as slimy reporting by others in the media.

Believe me, I've been harping about C-32 for a while now. Geist knows it, too (I talk to the guy, and with others) on a regular basis. The problem is that DRM trumps consumer (oh, I HATE that word, I prefer "citizen") rights... and the Conservatives know it, but refuse to budge on this point.

While Cons are known to pander to the "ethnic vote", it would serve them well if the "ethnics" would realize that C-32, in its current form criminalizes the circumvention of ANY digital locks. This includes region coding for DVDs. In other words, watch a DVD from Europe, Asia or Oceania = automatically become a criminal.

Some will say that this is nothing, or "everybody does it, like jaywalking"... but I have serious concerns against broad laws which have the potential to criminalize a large portion of the population - it's like giving any government/authority a "carte blanche" to fine, jail or harass you at will. Could this be used as an excuse to deal with inconvenient people? History says yes... all hyperbole aside, remember that Al Capone was not tried for racketeering - instead, they got him on a tax evasion charge.

Will many people be affected directly and drastically by C-32 in its current form? Common sense says no, but... why should we live under that idiotic threat?

And, on the other hand, does it serve the country to create laws that nobody in their right mind would respect? What does this say about the democratic process? What does it say about the legal system? I've seen this happen in Eastern Europe, it's destructive for the society in the long run.

What are the NDP and Liberals pitching as alternatives to C-32? As I recall, they're on board with it. Oddly the Bloc has a wonderfully progressive stance on the issue but I still wouldn't vote for them.

The Liberals invented pandering to the ethnic vote in this country - the worst of that manifested in their looking the other way and allowing the Tamil Tigers to operate in this country until the Conservatives came into power and declared them a terrorist organization. They continued to collect money for their operations in this country as long as they did because of some people in the Tamil community could nearly guarantee a riding or two here in the Greater Toronto Area. That is a fact.

Offhand, "ethnics" are as capable of understanding discussions of bills and technology as well as "non-ethnics", so I don't think they need anything explained to them.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,210
17,490
126
I think that may be because your instincts are telling you something's amiss with reporting on that item. Are you referring to the Toronto Star article Tory candidate lobbied for firm selling F-35 jets? You likely didn't notice that buried in the story, in the 12th or 13th paragraph is the sentence, "There is no record of Sturgeon having met with any government officials, but there are shiny new pictures on his Facebook page of the candidate sharing an intimate moment with Harper in the Prime Minister’s Office."

It's been rightly denounced as slimy reporting by others in the media.



What are the NDP and Liberals pitching as alternatives to C-32? As I recall, they're on board with it. Oddly the Bloc has a wonderfully progressive stance on the issue but I still wouldn't vote for them.

The Liberals invented pandering to the ethnic vote in this country - the worst of that manifested in their looking the other way and allowing the Tamil Tigers to operate in this country until the Conservatives came into power and declared them a terrorist organization. They continued to collect money for their operations in this country as long as they did because of some people in the Tamil community could nearly guarantee a riding or two here in the Greater Toronto Area. That is a fact.

Offhand, "ethnics" are as capable of understanding discussions of bills and technology as well as "non-ethnics", so I don't think they need anything explained to them.

I am going by this one

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...r-us-fighter-jet-manufacturer/article1959650/


I would like to hear more clarifications on this.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I am going by this one

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...r-us-fighter-jet-manufacturer/article1959650/


I would like to hear more clarifications on this.

Third opinion: CBC - Tory candidate lobbied for F-35 jet firm, with the subtitle "No indication northern Ont. candidate met with government officials".

A candidate running for the Conservative Party was also a lobbyist for Lockeed Martin, the manufacturer of the F-35 fighter jet that has been a source of controversy on Parliament Hill.

Raymond Sturgeon, who is trying to unseat NDP MP Carol Hughes in the northern Ontario riding of Algoma-Manitoulin-Kapuskasing, is a senior partner at the Ottawa-based lobbying firm CFN Consultants. It specializes in defence and security and Lockheed Martin is one of several clients that sells aircraft and equipment to government departments.

Sturgeon, who had a long career in the Canadian military and at the Department of National Defence before becoming a lobbyist, now has an "inactive" registration with the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada on the Lockheed Martin file.

The registry shows he was an active lobbyist for Lockheed Martin until December 15, 2010. There are no records indicating he met with any government officials on behalf of his client. Shortly after his registration as a lobbyist for Lockheed Martin ended, Sturgeon was selected as the Conservative candidate in January.

Registered as a lobbyist, never met with a government official, went inactive, is now a candidate. Doesn't sell as many papers as selective omissions or burying the facts would, but that's our media nowadays.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,210
17,490
126
Third opinion: CBC - Tory candidate lobbied for F-35 jet firm, with the subtitle "No indication northern Ont. candidate met with government officials".



Registered as a lobbyist, never met with a government official, went inactive, is now a candidate. Doesn't sell as many papers as selective omissions or burying the facts would, but that's our media nowadays.

Like I said, I would like to hear more. There would only be a record if the meeting happened in parliamentary office or the government person actually reported it. I am not saying it happened, I just would like to see more clarification.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,670
6,246
126
Third opinion: CBC - Tory candidate lobbied for F-35 jet firm, with the subtitle "No indication northern Ont. candidate met with government officials".



Registered as a lobbyist, never met with a government official, went inactive, is now a candidate. Doesn't sell as many papers as selective omissions or burying the facts would, but that's our media nowadays.

The funny part about this is that it's backwards. Seems that Lobbying is so crappy in Canada that they'd prefer to be Politicians! :biggrin:
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Like I said, I would like to hear more. There would only be a record if the meeting happened in parliamentary office or the government person actually reported it. I am not saying it happened, I just would like to see more clarification.

It's my understanding that both lobbyists and government workers live in mortal fear of the lobbyist registry and wouldn't dare to dream of defying it, but you'll certainly want to verify that on your own.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,989
490
126
@yllus: the NDP (via Charlie Angus) has already indicated that the provisions I referred to should be struck down. The Liberals haven't clarified their stance on it, although there are indications that Marc Garneau may think as I do. Yes, the Bloc is right on this one, but it's not enough to make up for the rest of their zaniness...

Oh, and I'm not criticizing the "ethnic" vote (though wasn't it the Bloc that first blamed the "ethnics" for losing the referendum?), I'm just saying that once the "ethnic voters" gets wind of the idea they're criminals simply for watching films from their countries of origin, they're much less likely to be happy about it...

As far as the Tamils go, they shot themselves in the foot, anyway - after the demonstration in front of Parliament, last year, the public servants in Ottawa were very angry at them
 

Dominato3r

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2008
5,109
1
0
The US Accountability Officials released a report on the F-35, the cost is a lot higher. Conservatives are saying 75million a pop, the report is saying $115million (AFAIK our budget overseers got a similar amount).

We need a new jet, of that there is no debate, the price however is iffy.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Third opinion: CBC - Tory candidate lobbied for F-35 jet firm, with the subtitle "No indication northern Ont. candidate met with government officials".



Registered as a lobbyist, never met with a government official, went inactive, is now a candidate. Doesn't sell as many papers as selective omissions or burying the facts would, but that's our media nowadays.

I'm wondering on the timeline. Goes inactive as a lobbyist, then becomes a Conservative candidate within a few months? Why leave a job unless you have something else lined up?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
The US Accountability Officials released a report on the F-35, the cost is a lot higher. Conservatives are saying 75million a pop, the report is saying $115million (AFAIK our budget overseers got a similar amount).

We need a new jet, of that there is no debate, the price however is iffy.

Eurofighter?
 

lord_emperor

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,380
1
0
Time again to vote based on which turd stinks less. I don't even have a Green, Pirate or Communist candidate in my area to vote for out of spite.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Time again to vote based on which turd stinks less. I don't even have a Green, Pirate or Communist candidate in my area to vote for out of spite.

Really? I thought the Greens were running in every riding. I guess that was only for the 2006 election. In 2008 didn't they agree to not run candidates in some ridings to not dilute the left vote or something?
 

Dominato3r

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2008
5,109
1
0
Eurofighter?

There are a lot of possibilities of what they could purchase but that's up to the DND.

65 is already a really small number, I don't know how they'll keep up with the pace of operations say 10 years down the road.

I've been hoping for two types of fighter aircraft (~30 F-35s, ~70 F-18Es which would come to the same cost of what the government is proposing now), but that's probably just a pipe dream of mine.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,989
490
126
Time again to vote based on which turd stinks less. I don't even have a Green, Pirate or Communist candidate in my area to vote for out of spite.

You know, I've been thinking I'd very much like to vote for a Pirate Party candidate... but with the Canadian electoral system being what it is, my vote would just go to waste, since there are zero chances that the vote would be enough to propel that party - or ANY of the small parties - past the electoral threshold, and into parliament. Pity... Don't get me started on this "first past the line" notion...

As such, I can throw away my vote, or make it count - that's why I have to go with either the Libs or the NDP.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
The National Post's Lorne Gunter stepped up to be the bad guy and wrote a piece today called Liz May doesn’t deserve to be in leaders’ debate.

I disagree with his conclusion, as in my mind a party that generates a million-plus votes should be represented - but if she's just going to act the same way she did last time around I'd almost rather she be excluded because of how much she embarrassed the Green Party by proxy. Shouting down Harper when he was trying to answer, insulting him on his clothing and repeatedly leaning over to giggle after making a "cute" remark with her ideological brothers-in-arms - that was pathetic and displayed an astounding amount of immaturity.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,210
17,490
126
I really think we should go to a more proportional representation. Combine say 5 ridings, everyone gets 5 votes and the top 5 candidates win. This way, if you really like 1 person, you can give all 5 votes to that one person. Currently if in one riding there is 2 good candidates, only one can make it. My proposal would alleviate most of that. I want to get away from partisan voting.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,989
490
126
Proportional representation would provide a more adequate and correct reflection of voter preference.

On the other hand, it would atomize and fragment parliamentary representation, making coalition governments a norm, rather than the exception... What a conundrum...


As for copyright and Bill C-32, here is one of the links most recently posted by Geist on his blog - it points out at exactly the things I was talking about; http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Copyright+reform+close+cigar/4406869/story.html
 
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