Canadian Election 2011

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dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
Looks like the current Tory seats in the Quebec City area might be safe afterall. Mayor Labeaume was so successful in convincing the population that his federal-less plan is viable moneywise that the arena is now a nonfactor in this election. It's a done deal in the voters mind... Now the Tory MPs are trying to make as little waves as possible and not stir anything else that might come back to haunt them locally. Just avoiding mistakes is a sound strategy when you're an incumbent.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
Looks like the current Tory seats in the Quebec City area might be safe afterall. Mayor Labeaume was so successful in convincing the population that his federal-less plan is viable moneywise that the arena is now a nonfactor in this election. It's a done deal in the voters mind... Now the Tory MPs are trying to make as little waves as possible and not stir anything else that might come back to haunt them locally. Just avoiding mistakes is a sound strategy when you're an incumbent.

I don't know how the conservatives are doing this. So many things blew up but it is not really affecting them. I guess it's all Iggy's fault.
 

Firebot

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2005
1,476
2
0
I don't know how the conservatives are doing this. So many things blew up but it is not really affecting them. I guess it's all Iggy's fault.

What blew up? All I've seen is bleeps here and there, which no one but the most anti-Harper / anti-conservative advocates would care about. The G20 is the only thing that was truly hurtful to the party in how it was handled, but not ground shaking. If Chretien's strangling of a protestor didn't change votes, why would Harper giving a handshake to his son do it?

Harper did a good job of weathering the recession despite a minority goverment and is the G8 country that came out of it with the least damage. Luckily most Canadians are still sound minded. The truth of the matter is the Conservative party is the closest thing to a centrist party right now, with the Liberal party having shifted so much to the left that people are simply going to Layton who does it better and is a better leader. If you read through both the NDP and Liberal platform (I have) they are so close together the past 2 elections that there is very little separating the two.

There was a time when people with slight conservative values but didn't like some policies could vote for the Liberals. The Liberals have completely lost touch with Canadians and what they want.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
What blew up? All I've seen is bleeps here and there, which no one but the most anti-Harper / anti-conservative advocates would care about. The G20 is the only thing that was truly hurtful to the party in how it was handled, but not ground shaking. If Chretien's strangling of a protestor didn't change votes, why would Harper giving a handshake to his son do it?

Harper did a good job of weathering the recession despite a minority goverment and is the G8 country that came out of it with the least damage. Luckily most Canadians are still sound minded. The truth of the matter is the Conservative party is the closest thing to a centrist party right now, with the Liberal party having shifted so much to the left that people are simply going to Layton who does it better and is a better leader. If you read through both the NDP and Liberal platform (I have) they are so close together the past 2 elections that there is very little separating the two.

There was a time when people with slight conservative values but didn't like some policies could vote for the Liberals. The Liberals have completely lost touch with Canadians and what they want.

To me the biggest thing was In and Out. I pull that shit and I would be in jail for fraud.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,446
214
106
The CP had to move to the centre because of minority government.
If they get a majority we will see the true colours which might be a good thing, If they F-up royal pitched out like Mulrooney or they might succeed and deliver on some fiscal responsibility hopefully not paired with social conservatism. . . .
Looks like they might get a majority if Jack keeps making hay in Quebec!
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Is it me or this is the most boring election campaign we've ever had?

Anyway, I think we are going to end up with a small conservative majority, Iffy will be going back to the US and Jack will become leader of the opposition. Finally, the Conservative will get their opportunity to govern the way they see it fit.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
I would be fine with the Conservatives if they weren't neo-cons using voodoo economics. You can't cut taxes and increase spending. I realize that we needed the stimulus, but they are not showing signs of cutting spending even now. Flaherty made a mess in Ontario when he was the finance minister. If the Conservatives win a majority, it will be a nightmare.

The way in which the stimulus spending was managed is a joke as well. I saw streets that were in perfectly good condition torn up and replaced, along with the concrete sidewalks, while there were tons of major thoroughfares in complete disarray that did not get fixed.

TBH I'm more comfortable with the NDP seeing as they're at least willing to re-allocate money instead of trying to pull it out of thin air. The Liberals seem like they're all over the place, and I'm not a fan of Ignatief.

All of that said, it does look like the Conservatives are going to win. I hope they will surprise me and do a decent job while balancing the books.
 
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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
The NDP keep surging... The only bright side, and I'm not exactly convinced it's a really a brightside, if the polls ring true, it looks like the Conservatives will be denied a majority again.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...cts-100-seats-for-surging-ndp/article1998361/
That's a good start.

A few people I know were upset at the idea of another minority government because it means nothing gets done. That's exactly the point! If the liberals and NDP actually try to work together when it comes to stopping retarded shit, then that successfully stops retarded shit. Having a majority is bad when that majority is retarded.
 

sammyunltd

Senior member
Jul 31, 2004
717
0
0
The NDP keep surging... The only bright side, and I'm not exactly convinced it's a really a brightside, if the polls ring true, it looks like the Conservatives will be denied a majority again.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...cts-100-seats-for-surging-ndp/article1998361/

The poll is s***. No way the NDP wins 30-40 seats in Quebec. NO EFFIN WAY. Period.

AFAIK, the Bloc still leads in most ridings and the Liberals have got Montreal's West Island as always. The NDP is "2nd" in a lot of ridings in the Greater Montreal, but it's still a distant second everywhere else (ie. countryside ridings).

http://threehundredeight.blogspot.com/

308 predicts +8 for the PC, -2 for Libs, -2 for the Bloc and status quo for the NDP compared to the previous election.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
F35 full life cycle cost might be double what the Canadian government is saying...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-than-double-ottawas-estimate/article1998507/


National Defence says it's been told the unit price of the F-35 stealth fighter will be higher than the $75-million it planned for, but the military insisted late Monday it can still deliver the program on budget.
The Pentagon, in a recent report to the U.S. Congress, outlined a laundry list of cost increases in the $382-billion (U.S.) development of the advanced fighter-bomber.
“Canada is not a recipient of the report, however, as an international partner in the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) project, we have been advised that it forecasts an increase in production costs for the JSF Program,” said a written statement released to The Canadian Press.
“Once we have an opportunity to see the details of the report, we will be able to assess how it may impact the cost of Canadian production aircraft.”
The statement downplayed the impending price hike, saying “a degree of cost variation is envisaged in any program” and defence bureaucrats had built a contingency into the estimated $9-billion purchase price.
For weeks, the Harper government has insisted it will pay around $75-million for each F-35 and furiously rejected criticism from the Parliamentary budget officer, who estimated in March that the sticker price for the radar-evading plane would be more like $148-million apiece.
Alarmed by the uncertainty, the Liberals have promised to cancel the purchase.
The acknowledgment of the price change came as another American report suggested the cost of operating the jets could be billions of dollars more than expected.
An estimate by a Pentagon cost-analysis unit projects it will cost $915-billion to keep the U.S. fleet of 2,443 jets flying for 30 years.
The document, leaked to Bloomberg in Washington, forecasts a lifetime maintenance bill of roughly $375-million per aircraft.
Alan Williams, a former senior Canadian defence official, says the costs would be comparable for the 65 planes the Conservative government intends to purchase, starting in 2017.
Using the Pentagon numbers, the 65 planes would cost more than $24-billion to maintain over 30 years, well above Canadian government estimates.
The cost-analysis group works directly for the U.S. defence secretary and challenges the numbers and assumptions of the Pentagon's project offices. It based its projection on the operating costs of the existing fleets of F-18s, F-16s and U.S. marine corps Harrier jump jets.
Much of the debate in Canada over the highly computerized planes has centred the eye-popping purchase price and only passing attention has been paid to long-term maintenance and service, which the Conservatives have projected at no more than $7 billion over 20 years.
The Parliamentary budget officer, in a report just before the Harper government was defeated, pegged service for the F-35 at $19.5-billion over 30 years or roughly $301-million per plane.
Kevin Page faced a storm of criticism from Conservatives in March for suggesting the overall program could cost taxpayers $29.3-billion, but if the new figures from the Pentagon hold, the price tag could go even higher.
“The Pentagon's new forecast represents a significant increase even over what the U.S. expected,” said Williams, who is an outspoken critic of the program. “The simple fact is we just don't know how much we'll spend. It just lends more weight to the argument that we should wait.”
Repeated warnings about costs spurred the F-35 project office at the Pentagon to commit last week to a sweeping review of what it will take to maintain the aircraft over the long haul.
The study, ordered by project executive officer Vice-Admiral David Venlet, will look at the design of the aircraft to try and figure out what is driving the costs into the stratosphere.
“The service chiefs look at the estimates of the maintenance cost and it makes their knees go weak,” said Venlet, according to an April 22 transcript of his remarks. “There is an estimate. We know that is not the right number.”
A second, separate report prepared two years ago by the U.S. naval air systems command said long-term support could hit $443 billion, but that estimate was in 2002 dollars.
Adm. Venlet said even that is too high.
Mr. Williams says there's a lot of uncertainty in the numbers because the plane is still in development and has no maintenance history.
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
I would be fine with the Conservatives if they weren't neo-cons using voodoo economics. You can't cut taxes and increase spending. I realize that we needed the stimulus, but they are not showing signs of cutting spending even now. Flaherty made a mess in Ontario when he was the finance minister. If the Conservatives win a majority, it will be a nightmare.

The way in which the stimulus spending was managed is a joke as well. I saw streets that were in perfectly good condition torn up and replaced, along with the concrete sidewalks, while there were tons of major thoroughfares in complete disarray that did not get fixed.

TBH I'm more comfortable with the NDP seeing as they're at least willing to re-allocate money instead of trying to pull it out of thin air. The Liberals seem like they're all over the place, and I'm not a fan of Ignatief.

All of that said, it does look like the Conservatives are going to win. I hope they will surprise me and do a decent job while balancing the books.

That's the problem though: real conservative governments are difficult (impossible?) to find. You cut too much stuff and the dumb people voting for you will finally figure out that cutting taxes means cutting spending that benefits them. The rich won't mind, but their numbers aren't that big.

If the NDP formed a majority (not gonna happen) they'd do what David Miller did in Toronto: increase spending a lot and jack up taxes; Miller managed a surplus in his final year. The far-left aren't afraid to raise taxes to cover the costs, which is good and bad.

Ignatief seems like he could do the job. Nothing spectacular, but he'd get the job done and maintain the status quo.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
Too bad the people will not stomach the restoration of GST back to 7%. That is really the root of the problem.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
If the NDP formed a majority (not gonna happen) they'd do what David Miller did in Toronto: increase spending a lot and jack up taxes; Miller managed a surplus in his final year. The far-left aren't afraid to raise taxes to cover the costs, which is good and bad.
As much as I hate being taxed, it seems worth it in a lot of cases. My city decided to stop fucking around and start building a ring road, change traffic lights to overpasses, and expand the city's train system. HUGE improvement. Better healthcare would be nice too


Too bad the people will not stomach the restoration of GST back to 7%. That is really the root of the problem.
Because it's regressive taxation. We've gone over this many times in P&N. Poor people spend a higher percentage of their money, so poor people are more strongly affected by sales tax.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
Because it's regressive taxation. We've gone over this many times in P&N. Poor people spend a higher percentage of their money, so poor people are more strongly affected by sales tax.

I don't bother with P&N. Income tax is already at a high enough level and about the right distribution, how would you make up the revenue shortfall?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Ignatieff seems like he could do the job. Nothing spectacular, but he'd get the job done and maintain the status quo.

The entire basis of the Liberal platform is that putting the corporate tax rate back to 18% will generate $6 billion in revenue - a claim not a single economist in Canada agrees with (consensus is about $1.5 billion). Our status quo of a structural deficit will be worsened, not maintained or improved, by the addition of the campaign promises of the Liberals, who are optimistically pegging their new spending promises at $8 billion.

The NDP would like to spend an extra $30 billion over the next two years, and $70 billion over the next four years. The plan to pay for all of this is to implement an environmental fee (cap and trade) system, which the private sector will no doubt gracefully absorb to take lower profits instead of passing them onto the consumer.

Finally, the Conservatives also plan to overspend and continue to run a deficit. So really, a great bunch of options before us.

Too bad the people will not stomach the restoration of GST back to 7%. That is really the root of the problem.

You are absolutely correct. This is the real cause of our structural deficit.
 
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dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,509
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-right-and-left-poll-suggests/article1999681/

The NDP is pulling votes even from the Tories! A big orange wave... I'm a Liberal but a minority NDP government would be interesting. Better than more Harper for sure.

And if the NDP ends up in second place, even if Harper wins, Jack will not let him gain the confidence of the House for long (if at all) before pulling the plug. This might be the only chance in a long time that the NDP has to govern and, to quote the opulence Russian, they'll jump in it.
 
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sammyunltd

Senior member
Jul 31, 2004
717
0
0
The plan to pay for all of this is to implement an environmental fee (cap and trade) system, which the private sector will no doubt gracefully absorb to take lower profits instead of passing them onto the consumer.

Is this a farce?

The private sector will certainly pass the added costs onto the consumer.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I don't bother with P&N. Income tax is already at a high enough level and about the right distribution, how would you make up the revenue shortfall?
Take money from the people who have money. Poor people already have a hard time, so we could at least try to give them some slack on taxes.

I'm doing well these days, but I was poor at one time. I always remember that and I care for my poor people :wub:
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Ontario tried an NDP government for a while. How did it work out for them?
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,446
214
106
Here in Sask we have had lots of NDP governments
Always been very pragmatic and competant if not business stifling though and thats what Layton's NDP offer economy crippling idealology make no mistake without the benefit of pragmatic government.
I voted for Broadbent in the day but Layton is a used car saleman to be sure
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Here in Sask we have had lots of NDP governments
Always been very pragmatic and competant if not business stifling though and thats what Layton's NDP offer economy crippling idealology

That's exactly what my dad has always said. He grew up in rural Saskatchewan in a family with 7 kids. Of those 7 people, only 1 of them still lives in Saskatchewan. The rest moved to Alberta because that's where all the jobs were. Alberta has been a conservative province for a very long time.

iirc, the NDP also destroyed BC's budget. They increased taxes, but they spent more than they increased the taxes, so they still had a huge deficit.

I would like to have a real conservative government, not these neo con assholes we have now. They're carbon copy republicans with retarded ideas like declaring war on drugs, making a prison state, lowering taxes so we can't pay for those prisons, then something something end of the country because they are retarded.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
Good job Conservatives, piss off the right wing media :biggrin:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...on-bogus-ignatieff-iraq-photo/article2000456/

Peladeau hails incident as proof his newspaper chain and TV network are not 'official organs' of Conservative Party

The six men wearing combat gear are posed beside a helicopter in Kuwait, weapons in hand and Christmas hats on their heads. In the centre is a person with a passing resemblance to Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff.
The photo [http://cnews.canoe.ca/cnews/canada/2011/04/27/ignatieff_inset_1024x768.jpg] might've become no more than a curiosity - forwarded among political junkies or perhaps becoming part of a "separated at birth" feature - had it not been fed to Sun Media by a former senior Harper staffer as part of a supposed scoop.
The person in the photo was not, in turns out, Mr. Ignatieff. And now Sun Media president and chief executive Pierre Karl Peladeau has unleashed a blast of righteous indignation at how he says his company was played.
"Over 1500 years ago it was the Greek dramatist Aeschylus who said that in war truth is the first casualty," he wrote in a piece [http://cnews.canoe.ca/cnews/canada/2011/04/27/18071406.html] that appeared Wednesday. "This is about politics as war by other means, and a lie that might have claimed our company as a casualty."
Mr. Peladeau said that the low-resolution photo was part of a package of information given to Sun Media honcho Kory Teneycke, a former Harper spokesman, by Patrick Muttart, once deputy chief of staff in the Prime Minister's Office.
"He claimed to be in possession of a report prepared by a 'U.S. source', outlining the activities and whereabouts of Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff in the weeks and months leading to the American invasion of Iraq in 2003," Mr. Peladeau wrote.
The bombshell allegation was that Mr. Ignatieff had a much greater role than he'd admitted in the planning for the Iraq war. And in fact had spent time on a U.S. base, where he was supposedly cozy enough with his hosts to pose wearing their uniform and holding one of their assault rifles.
But definitively identifying the person in the low-res image was impossible and, after what Mr. Peladeau characterized as "much pressure," a better image was coughed up. It revealed "without a doubt" that the man in the picture "could not be the Liberal leader."
The Conservative Party said in a statement the photo had been dug up through Internet research and they had admitted being unable to determine the identity of the person resembling Mr. Ignatieff.
"Sun Media informed us that it would conduct its own verification and due diligence," the party said in the statement. "Sun Media concluded that the identity could not be verified. The Sun made the right decision. "
The media mogul's public lambasting comes after days of swirling talk about Mr. Ignatieff's supposed role in the unpopular war. Last week Sun parliamentary scribe Brian Lilley wrote [http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/20/ignatieff-linked-to-iraq-war-planning] that the Liberal Leader, then a prominent scholar at Harvard, "was on the front lines of pre-invasion planning" because of his role on an academic advisory team that "helped U.S. state department and American military officials conduct strategy sessions."
On Wednesday, even as Mr. Peladeau blasted dealing in misinformation "when the future governance of country is on the line," he found a silver lining for his company's credibility.
"It is my belief that this planted information was intended to first and foremost seriously damage Michael Ignatieff's campaign but in the process to damage the integrity and credibility of Sun Media and, more pointedly, that of our new television operation, Sun News," he wrote.
"If any proof is needed to dispel the false yet still prevalent notion that Sun Media and the Sun News Network are the official organs of the Conservative Party of Canada, I offer this unfortunate episode as Exhibit A."
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,188
17,482
126
Take money from the people who have money. Poor people already have a hard time, so we could at least try to give them some slack on taxes.

I'm doing well these days, but I was poor at one time. I always remember that and I care for my poor people :wub:

The rich people pay most of the tax already. I think the tax deductions warrant a review though.
 
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