Originally posted by: thecoroner
Thanks for the information Aelius.
I've already know some networking skills and know how to run wire. Running network cable through the ceiling at school is one the things I've been helping out with there. I've been getting a lot of hands on experience. But a lot of it I don't think I'll get until I get my first job.
Originally posted by: Imdmn04
Experience > Cisco certs > MCSE certs > dogsh!t > A+
Of course, a 4 year degree is very helpful, maybe not initially, but when you wanna move up the ladder into a management role, it is very handy.
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: classy
LOL thats with any cert in IT outside of CCIE. CCNA harder than a MCSE, lol. Yea right. CCNA is a one book, one test. MCSE 7 books, if your lucky, 7 tests. And personal experience doen't mean anything, I have seen people with 4 year college IS degrees that couldn't install a simple video card. Cranking out mcses like candy huh? Hmmm.....here are some facts. The combined number of NT, 2000, 2003 MCSES certs given out in the entire world are about 1 million. Dude there are about 10 million plus IT people in the US alone. I'll lay any amount of money a person just breaking into IT with a MCSE will get a job faster and make more money than a person with a CCNA. I have met several people with CCNAs who got no job. A lot of places are moving from cisco equipment as well. Where I work right now we use 3 com.
1million people with a MCSE cert eh?
We are proud to announce that Cisco currently has over 500,000 certified individuals in its growing Career Certification Program. This number includes all individuals worldwide certified at the CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCDP, CCSP and CCIP levels of Certification, as well as Cisco Qualified Specialist focused certifications.
Cisco Link
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: classy
LOL thats with any cert in IT outside of CCIE. CCNA harder than a MCSE, lol. Yea right. CCNA is a one book, one test. MCSE 7 books, if your lucky, 7 tests. And personal experience doen't mean anything, I have seen people with 4 year college IS degrees that couldn't install a simple video card. Cranking out mcses like candy huh? Hmmm.....here are some facts. The combined number of NT, 2000, 2003 MCSES certs given out in the entire world are about 1 million. Dude there are about 10 million plus IT people in the US alone. I'll lay any amount of money a person just breaking into IT with a MCSE will get a job faster and make more money than a person with a CCNA. I have met several people with CCNAs who got no job. A lot of places are moving from cisco equipment as well. Where I work right now we use 3 com.
1million people with a MCSE cert eh?
We are proud to announce that Cisco currently has over 500,000 certified individuals in its growing Career Certification Program. This number includes all individuals worldwide certified at the CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCDP, CCSP and CCIP levels of Certification, as well as Cisco Qualified Specialist focused certifications.
Cisco Link
Cisco doesn't have the market share that ms has. So its quite natual you are going to have less folks know or have to know Cisco because it doesn't have the same level of use as ms products. Let me be clear Cisco is good stuff no doubt. There are bogus cisco people just like ms. But, two folks who truly earned their stripes, a msce is significantly more advanced than ccna. Its not even close. A ccna could never walk in and be a network admin running a domain, but I bet a mcse will be able to troubleshoot a router failure. CCNA is a beginner cert and is no way even remotely on the same plain as a mcse cert. Thats what I am saying. I have never taken a Cisco test, will this fall, just for the challenge, have knocked off 5 of the required MCSE tests though. Don't get me wrong I like them both, but a mcse is beyond a ccna, I don't care how you slice it. Cisco does have better testing methods, but the knowledge level required for a CCNA cert is inferior and much lower than that of a mcse. I ain't no expert, but when you have worked in a 10,000 plus user enviroment and now a 2000 plus enviroment like I have, each with IT budgets in the millions, I am no fool either.
Originally posted by: classy
Cisco doesn't have the market share that ms has. So its quite natual you are going to have less folks know or have to know Cisco because it doesn't have the same level of use as ms products. Let me be clear Cisco is good stuff no doubt. There are bogus cisco people just like ms. But, two folks who truly earned their stripes, a msce is significantly more advanced than ccna. Its not even close. A ccna could never walk in and be a network admin running a domain, but I bet a mcse will be able to troubleshoot a router failure. CCNA is a beginner cert and is no way even remotely on the same plain as a mcse cert. Thats what I am saying. I have never taken a Cisco test, will this fall, just for the challenge, have knocked off 5 of the required MCSE tests though. Don't get me wrong I like them both, but a mcse is beyond a ccna, I don't care how you slice it. Cisco does have better testing methods, but the knowledge level required for a CCNA cert is inferior and much lower than that of a mcse. I ain't no expert, but when you have worked in a 10,000 plus user enviroment and now a 2000 plus enviroment like I have, each with IT budgets in the millions, I am no fool either.
Originally posted by: Hyperblaze
You can't really diss off a CCNA cert until you'll actually tried it.
I personally wouldn't even waste my time on any MS cert. But I wouldn't mind going for a CISCO cert. That and a Unix cert would be considered a good use of my time.
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: classy
Cisco doesn't have the market share that ms has. So its quite natual you are going to have less folks know or have to know Cisco because it doesn't have the same level of use as ms products. Let me be clear Cisco is good stuff no doubt. There are bogus cisco people just like ms. But, two folks who truly earned their stripes, a msce is significantly more advanced than ccna. Its not even close. A ccna could never walk in and be a network admin running a domain, but I bet a mcse will be able to troubleshoot a router failure. CCNA is a beginner cert and is no way even remotely on the same plain as a mcse cert. Thats what I am saying. I have never taken a Cisco test, will this fall, just for the challenge, have knocked off 5 of the required MCSE tests though. Don't get me wrong I like them both, but a mcse is beyond a ccna, I don't care how you slice it. Cisco does have better testing methods, but the knowledge level required for a CCNA cert is inferior and much lower than that of a mcse. I ain't no expert, but when you have worked in a 10,000 plus user enviroment and now a 2000 plus enviroment like I have, each with IT budgets in the millions, I am no fool either.
How far along have you actually gotten with the Cisco Certification studying?
That you're saying that it requires much more knowledge for an MCSE than a CCNA leads me to believe you haven't studied much, or taken any practice exams at all.
EDIT: Also, I'm going to agree with you that the MCSE is more desirable in the sense that more companies simply look for it for general baselines and education. It's much more of a broad certification than the CCNA is (which as you said, relates back to marketshare).
Originally posted by: ScottFern
I am kind of in the same boat as the OP. I have considered taking Network+, Security+, Unix+, and MCSE certs. I am thinking of taking the courses at my local community college. Good idea?
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Good luck getting into any sort of IT job. I have a 4 year B.S. in Information Systems and can't get my foot in the door. I'm looking into other fields outside of IT because of it.
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: classy
LOL thats with any cert in IT outside of CCIE. CCNA harder than a MCSE, lol. Yea right. CCNA is a one book, one test. MCSE 7 books, if your lucky, 7 tests. And personal experience doen't mean anything, I have seen people with 4 year college IS degrees that couldn't install a simple video card. Cranking out mcses like candy huh? Hmmm.....here are some facts. The combined number of NT, 2000, 2003 MCSES certs given out in the entire world are about 1 million. Dude there are about 10 million plus IT people in the US alone. I'll lay any amount of money a person just breaking into IT with a MCSE will get a job faster and make more money than a person with a CCNA. I have met several people with CCNAs who got no job. A lot of places are moving from cisco equipment as well. Where I work right now we use 3 com.
1million people with a MCSE cert eh?
We are proud to announce that Cisco currently has over 500,000 certified individuals in its growing Career Certification Program. This number includes all individuals worldwide certified at the CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCDP, CCSP and CCIP levels of Certification, as well as Cisco Qualified Specialist focused certifications.
Cisco Link
Cisco doesn't have the market share that ms has. So its quite natual you are going to have less folks know or have to know Cisco because it doesn't have the same level of use as ms products. Let me be clear Cisco is good stuff no doubt. There are bogus cisco people just like ms. But, two folks who truly earned their stripes, a msce is significantly more advanced than ccna. Its not even close. A ccna could never walk in and be a network admin running a domain, but I bet a mcse will be able to troubleshoot a router failure. CCNA is a beginner cert and is no way even remotely on the same plain as a mcse cert. Thats what I am saying. I have never taken a Cisco test, will this fall, just for the challenge, have knocked off 5 of the required MCSE tests though. Don't get me wrong I like them both, but a mcse is beyond a ccna, I don't care how you slice it. Cisco does have better testing methods, but the knowledge level required for a CCNA cert is inferior and much lower than that of a mcse. I ain't no expert, but when you have worked in a 10,000 plus user enviroment and now a 2000 plus enviroment like I have, each with IT budgets in the millions, I am no fool either.
Originally posted by: RichUK
My only worry is if CISCO?s future is to promote dumb terminals over smart terminals, meaning that eventually running a whole IT infrastructure over the embedded network with just dumb terminal workstations. This could mean that all support could be housed in one place and taken off site, and managed remotely. Of course this is good for business as support costs go down, and hardware breakfix is simple and minimal on site (very cost effective). This is talk I have heard from work colleagues that are in the know.
I see CISCO certs as more specialised, with jobs that pay a lot better in this field of work. The market share for MS certs is obviously going to be greater being the obvious monopoly MS has on its OS. I still don?t regard MS certs that much.
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: RichUK
My only worry is if CISCO?s future is to promote dumb terminals over smart terminals, meaning that eventually running a whole IT infrastructure over the embedded network with just dumb terminal workstations. This could mean that all support could be housed in one place and taken off site, and managed remotely. Of course this is good for business as support costs go down, and hardware breakfix is simple and minimal on site (very cost effective). This is talk I have heard from work colleagues that are in the know.
I see CISCO certs as more specialised, with jobs that pay a lot better in this field of work. The market share for MS certs is obviously going to be greater being the obvious monopoly MS has on its OS. I still don?t regard MS certs that much.
I'll comment...
The push for terminal type computing has been pushed for 10+ years and hasn't really "arrived" yet mainly from the mobility perspective. Even the handheld arena which was supposed to be just terminals still runs an OS and has the support costs that go along with that. If it were me - everything would be terminals booting of the network with no storage.
I do agree that networking professionals are generally higher up in the food chain, are more valuable, higher skilled and much better paid. MCSE types are more "just another PC guy" without an understanding of the big picture or computing in general. However there are good ones out there. You can rest assured however that in general somebody with cisco certifications is a pretty sharp cookie.
But if I have to explain how DNS and IP works to another MCSE I'm gonna lose it.
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: RichUK
My only worry is if CISCO?s future is to promote dumb terminals over smart terminals, meaning that eventually running a whole IT infrastructure over the embedded network with just dumb terminal workstations. This could mean that all support could be housed in one place and taken off site, and managed remotely. Of course this is good for business as support costs go down, and hardware breakfix is simple and minimal on site (very cost effective). This is talk I have heard from work colleagues that are in the know.
I see CISCO certs as more specialised, with jobs that pay a lot better in this field of work. The market share for MS certs is obviously going to be greater being the obvious monopoly MS has on its OS. I still don?t regard MS certs that much.
I'll comment...
The push for terminal type computing has been pushed for 10+ years and hasn't really "arrived" yet mainly from the mobility perspective. Even the handheld arena which was supposed to be just terminals still runs an OS and has the support costs that go along with that. If it were me - everything would be terminals booting of the network with no storage.
I do agree that networking professionals are generally higher up in the food chain, are more valuable, higher skilled and much better paid. MCSE types are more "just another PC guy" without an understanding of the big picture or computing in general. However there are good ones out there. You can rest assured however that in general somebody with cisco certifications is a pretty sharp cookie.
But if I have to explain how DNS and IP works to another MCSE I'm gonna lose it.
sigh
your so full of s*** another pc guy :roll:, yea right. I'll leave you one trick ponys to replace a router and I'll dictate your level of access, lol
Originally posted by: BigJ
Kinda hard to dictate user access when all traffic from and to your IP address is denied cause the Cisco guy cut you off at the router or switch level.
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BigJ
Kinda hard to dictate user access when all traffic from and to your IP address is denied cause the Cisco guy cut you off at the router or switch level.
Yea he will be fired too , you know why because the MCSE admin says so. When I need my switch fixed or a router replaced get up and get it done and if you kiss my tushy enough maybe I'll let you have a few websites to browse and a couple more icons on your desktop. Maybe I won't read your email either
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: BigJ
Kinda hard to dictate user access when all traffic from and to your IP address is denied cause the Cisco guy cut you off at the router or switch level.
Yea he will be fired too , you know why because the MCSE admin says so. When I need my switch fixed or a router replaced get up and get it done and if you kiss my tushy enough maybe I'll let you have a few websites to browse and a couple more icons on your desktop. Maybe I won't read your email either