Careers in IT

[TheSlamma]

No Vacancy

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: BigJ

Kinda hard to dictate user access when all traffic from and to your IP address is denied cause the Cisco guy cut you off at the router or switch level.

Yea he will be fired too , you know why because the MCSE admin says so. When I need my switch fixed or a router replaced get up and get it done and if you kiss my tushy enough maybe I'll let you have a few websites to browse and a couple more icons on your desktop. Maybe I won't read your email either

heh, that's what is so funny about the PC guys. They think that controlling the OS is some super big deal.

break/fix replacement is not the job of a networking guy. any monkey can do that. Just like any PC monkey can setup a microsoft network and be an MCSE

I really don't want to get into a wagging thing, but an MCSE is really not respected in the industry from what I've seen and in many ways is laughed at. Especially the ones that wear it like a badge. Mainly because of the late 90s and the "paper certifications"

oh, and FYI - I was an MCSE in 1996. Maybe that can add some merit to my comments. Only because if I'm trashing something, at least I have experience with what I'm trashing.

back on topic....
OP - want to have a good career in IT? Get into sales. You will have access to and knowledge of a wide array of technology, meet tons of people, build long lasting professional relationships and make a ton of money.

I couldn?t agree more.

classy, have you done anything other than just ?Sys Admin? work? Depending on your level of responsibility and how big your particular support team is, that job can be really boring, unless your able to get that involved, with the other aspects other than basic administration

in my job I have had the opportunity to work within an integration team, whom are responsible for designing complete system network infrastructures, and designing/working off custom ?life cycles? for given projects/rollouts (which have been designed around a business need), this can be tremendous work but very satisfying, especially for a 15,000 user contract.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: RichUK

I couldn?t agree more.

classy, have you done anything other than just ?Sys Admin? work? Depending on your level of responsibility and how big your particular support team is, that job can be really boring, unless your able to get that involved, with the other aspects other than basic administration

in my job I have had the opportunity to work within an integration team, whom are responsible for designing complete system network infrastructures, and designing/working off custom ?life cycles? for given projects/rollouts (which have been designed around a business need), this can be tremendous work but very satisfying, especially for a 15,000 user contract.

No If by you mean like along the lines of spidey and big j. I have not hand the oppurtunity to see a network build from the ground up. But these guys are way out in left field. MCSE certs here in the phila area are very respected. Maybe where they are they may not be but I find that hard to believe. I am going to study ccna material now and get the cert and compare the two from a knowledge level. This is a good thread, its kinda funny how folks land in different camps when it comes to IT. good stuff

 

[Kromis]

Wow! For some odd reason, this thread got a lot HOTTER than mines! Don't mind if I learn/leech off your thread, eh, thecoroner? We both want the same thing so umm...don't mind if I ask my own questions here once in a while. Toodles!

BTW, I don't have any experience with networking and I am slowly learning Visual Basics 6.0 via independent study (not quite sure if its obsolete yet...)

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: RichUK

I couldn?t agree more.

classy, have you done anything other than just ?Sys Admin? work? Depending on your level of responsibility and how big your particular support team is, that job can be really boring, unless your able to get that involved, with the other aspects other than basic administration

in my job I have had the opportunity to work within an integration team, whom are responsible for designing complete system network infrastructures, and designing/working off custom ?life cycles? for given projects/rollouts (which have been designed around a business need), this can be tremendous work but very satisfying, especially for a 15,000 user contract.

No If by you mean like along the lines of spidey and big j. I have not hand the oppurtunity to see a network build from the ground up. But these guys are way out in left field. MCSE certs here in the phila area are very respected. Maybe where they are they may not be but I find that hard to believe. I am going to study ccna material now and get the cert and compare the two from a knowledge level. This is a good thread, its kinda funny how folks land in different camps when it comes to IT. good stuff

Both the CCNA and MCSE are both very basic, entry level certs. In my experience, neither of them are held in prestige. Back in 2002, as a HSer, I managed to obtain both of them through programs offered at my HS, which should tell you about their difficult in their own right. I interned at Northrop Grummen for several months in their IT/IS department in HS, and I then worked at the University of Maryland in their IT department under FWS last year. My CCNA certification has since lapsed because I simply don't like IT work anymore, and will not be pursuing a career path in that area (I'm CS/Econ).

For Northrop Grumman, the MCSE was absolutely useless. I was working on Cisco Routers/Switches all day long. Whether it was reloading configurations, or having them review my work on test terminals and then implementing it on their LAN, it was ALL Cisco.

For UMD IT work, it was much more oriented towards what I learned when preparing for the MCSE, and basic helldesk stuff.

The certifications are oriented for very different purposes. However, the people I worked with at Grumman, and the IT workers at UMD all looked at the CCNA as a more prestigious cert compared to the MCSE.

Another thing that makes the CCNA difficult to obtain is how damn hard Cisco makes their tests. I was caught especially in a pickle, because this was during the time when Cisco was going over to the new CCNA certification program, so the cert exam they had that year was an asbolute mess. Nobody was sure or even prepared for what was going to be on the exam.

The biggest problem I have with you and your posts has been your complete lack of respect in regard to the CCNA. To even say that one needs to achieve a CCNP certification to be on the same level as an MCSE is extremely laughable. And then to comment on the level of knowledge and that it's "nowhere on the same plain as an MCSE" is just downright wrong. You haven't even gone past the intro level CCNA material, and you can already comment on the knowledge required to acheive the cert?

In my experience, and in the opinions of the people I've worked with and under, the CCNA cert is more difficult and held in higher regard than the MCSE.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: RichUK

I couldn?t agree more.

classy, have you done anything other than just ?Sys Admin? work? Depending on your level of responsibility and how big your particular support team is, that job can be really boring, unless your able to get that involved, with the other aspects other than basic administration

in my job I have had the opportunity to work within an integration team, whom are responsible for designing complete system network infrastructures, and designing/working off custom ?life cycles? for given projects/rollouts (which have been designed around a business need), this can be tremendous work but very satisfying, especially for a 15,000 user contract.

No If by you mean like along the lines of spidey and big j. I have not hand the oppurtunity to see a network build from the ground up. But these guys are way out in left field. MCSE certs here in the phila area are very respected. Maybe where they are they may not be but I find that hard to believe. I am going to study ccna material now and get the cert and compare the two from a knowledge level. This is good thread, is kinda funny how folks land in different camps when it comes to IT. good stuff

heh...yeah.

There is a pecking order to IT "architecture"

1) It's a "network problem/capacity"
2) It's a lack of system resources
3) It's a "bad design" - normally to mean "bad application/programming" but can mean bad architecture that doesn't (and can't) meet the needs of what is required.
4) most likely it is a lack of understanding of computing in general and that drives a poor architecture in general. A system that didn't capture the requirements correctly and a system/business process that was developed by people who just don't know any better.

But normally it isn't uncommon at all for the network guys to tell the server/application guys what is up and the reason why. Server guys (aka, PC guys who play with big PCs), are just a pain to deal with.

Sorry if i come across as harsh, but I tire of telling MCSEs how to design their active directories when that is what they are supposed to be the SME on the project.


But landing in certain camps of IT (or silos) is certainly true. My only career advice would be to have knowledge of how those silos work and be able to manage the strengths of each and recognize the shortcomings of others. For the OP, this can only be done via experience.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: BigJ
In my experience, and in the opinions of the people I've worked with and under, the CCNA cert is more difficult and held in higher regard than the MCSE.

Well I am going to prove this out and when I am done I'll tell the truth.

 

[JOHNGALT99]

I suggest a career in information security or computer forensics.

Get a degree in computer science with a concentration in information security.

For now start learning c++. python, and perl. Pick up a learning TCP/IP book it should be your bible.

Also start capturing packets with ethereal and practice understanding them and parsing them.

During college get a government internship that gets you a clearence. Then when you graduate work for the gov and you can do some really cool things.

In my opinion computer forensics and information security are the most interesting fields in what your calling IT.

PM if you want some links to some sites to learn about computer forensics

GALT

 

[Reckoner]

What if I want to work on the business side of IT? Such as an Entry-level Business Analyst or Jr. Project Manager position. Does anyone who is reading this thread have experience in either role? And what certain skillsets would you recommend for these positions?

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
What if I want to work on the business side of IT? Such as an Entry-level Business Analyst or Jr. Project Manager position. Does anyone who is reading this thread have experience in either role? And what certain skillsets would you recommend for these positions?

College is what will prepare you for the business side of IT. I am sure there are some AAS degrees in this area.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: spidey07
But if I have to explain how DNS and IP works to another MCSE I'm gonna lose it.

Considering that most of Microsoft exams 70-291 and 70-293 is DNS and IP networking.... I have to wonder how they passed...

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: spidey07
But if I have to explain how DNS and IP works to another MCSE I'm gonna lose it.

Considering that most of Microsoft exams 70-291 and 70-293 is DNS and IP networking.... I have to wonder how they passed...

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY...THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF COMPUTING AND I'M TIRED OF EXPLAINING IT TO THEM. THEY ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A PC GUY.

SORRY FOR THE CAPS KEYBOARD IS FUBARED, M9OUSE IS BARELY WORKING...NEED AN MCSE TO FIX IT FOR ME. I'LL CALL THE MONKEYS TOMORROW. THIS LAPTOP IS FRIED.

SORR6Y FOR THE CAPS GUYS

 

[RichUK]

My company will only pay for a CCNA cert. I?ve been researching and would like to set a goal of atleast becoming qualified to CCNP level. Then if and when I pass a CCNP cert, I would like to set a new goal of CCIE.

Basically within the industry would you say that there is a big gap between CCNA and CCNP the way that it is recognised, or between CCNP and CCIE?

And also is it worth being qualified up to that level. My plan is to build experience and become CCNA certified through my company then move on to another company where my skills will be specialised and utilised. I am a person that likes to always further my knowledge.

Knowledge is power!

 

[ultimatebob]

Geez... Why are you guys recommending entering a field that is being taken over by cheap foreign labor? Seriously... the IT job market in the US has been in decline since the dot com boom, and will probably be just a niche market 10 years from now. Sure, you will always need a few folks to reboot servers, run cables, and get laptops and desktops on the network. The rest of the work can (and eventually will) be done remotely overseas for 1/10th the price.

Man.. Why don't you guys recommend buggy whip manufacturing or typewriter repair while you're at it

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Geez... Why are you guys recommending entering a field that is being taken over by cheap foreign labor? Seriously... the IT job market in the US has been in decline since the dot com boom, and will probably be just a niche market 10 years from now. Sure, you will always need a few folks to reboot servers and replace laptop parts, but the rest of the work can (and eventually will) be done remotely overseas for 1/10th the price.

Heh.. Why don't you recommend buggy whip manufacturing or typewriter repair while you're at it

Quite possibly one of the more ignorant replies I've ever read in an ATOT topic. I was going to argue each ridiculous point, but I'm personally very tired of doing so.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Geez... Why are you guys recommending entering a field that is being taken over by cheap foreign labor? Seriously... the IT job market in the US has been in decline since the dot com boom, and will probably be just a niche market 10 years from now. Sure, you will always need a few folks to reboot servers and replace laptop parts, but the rest of the work can (and eventually will) be done remotely overseas for 1/10th the price.

Heh.. Why don't you recommend buggy whip manufacturing or typewriter repair while you're at it

Quite possibly one of the more ignorant replies I've ever read in an ATOT topic. I was going to argue each ridiculous point, but I'm personally very tired of doing so.

LOL.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Geez... Why are you guys recommending entering a field that is being taken over by cheap foreign labor? Seriously... the IT job market in the US has been in decline since the dot com boom, and will probably be just a niche market 10 years from now. Sure, you will always need a few folks to reboot servers and replace laptop parts, but the rest of the work can (and eventually will) be done remotely overseas for 1/10th the price.

Heh.. Why don't you recommend buggy whip manufacturing or typewriter repair while you're at it

Quite possibly one of the more ignorant replies I've ever read in an ATOT topic. I was going to argue each ridiculous point, but I'm personally very tired of doing so.

I think your response was even more ridiculous.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: RichUK
My company will only pay for a CCNA cert. I?ve been researching and would like to set a goal of atleast becoming qualified to CCNP level. Then if and when I pass a CCNP cert, I would like to set a new goal of CCIE.

Basically within the industry would you say that there is a big gap between CCNA and CCNP the way that it is recognised, or between CCNP and CCIE?

And also is it worth being qualified up to that level. My plan is to build experience and become CCNA certified through my company then move on to another company where my skills will be specialised and utilised. I am a person that likes to always further my knowledge.

Knowledge is power!

The gap between CCIE and CCNP is MUCH larger than CCNP and CCNA. I believe there are roughly only 10,000 certified CCIEs in the world.

Unless you work for an extremely larger telecom company, you will never utilize what you learn from the CCIE certification prep. It has a roughly 15% pass rate on the Hands-On Lab, and thats the pass rate for industry professionals with decades of experience in many cases.

Simply put, for many it's not worth it.

 

[gigapet]

nanotechnology
robotics

can't lose if you go into those fields.

 

[Martin]

Here's an idea: instead of being the guy that plays around with what others make, why don't you be one of the guys that make the stuff? Look into engineering, computer or electrical.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Geez... Why are you guys recommending entering a field that is being taken over by cheap foreign labor? Seriously... the IT job market in the US has been in decline since the dot com boom, and will probably be just a niche market 10 years from now. Sure, you will always need a few folks to reboot servers and replace laptop parts, but the rest of the work can (and eventually will) be done remotely overseas for 1/10th the price.

Heh.. Why don't you recommend buggy whip manufacturing or typewriter repair while you're at it

Quite possibly one of the more ignorant replies I've ever read in an ATOT topic. I was going to argue each ridiculous point, but I'm personally very tired of doing so.

I think your response was even more ridiculous.

Yeah. and I'm still waiting for someone to prove that I'm wrong.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: RichUK
My company will only pay for a CCNA cert. I?ve been researching and would like to set a goal of atleast becoming qualified to CCNP level. Then if and when I pass a CCNP cert, I would like to set a new goal of CCIE.

Basically within the industry would you say that there is a big gap between CCNA and CCNP the way that it is recognised, or between CCNP and CCIE?

And also is it worth being qualified up to that level. My plan is to build experience and become CCNA certified through my company then move on to another company where my skills will be specialised and utilised. I am a person that likes to always further my knowledge.

Knowledge is power!

The gap between CCIE and CCNP is MUCH larger than CCNP and CCNA. I believe there are roughly only 10,000 certified CCIEs in the world.

Unless you work for an extremely larger telecom company, you will never utilize what you learn from the CCIE certification prep. It has a roughly 15% pass rate on the Hands-On Lab, and thats the pass rate for industry professionals with decades of experience in many cases.

Simply put, for many it's not worth it.

Thanks for the reply BigJ.

I think my plan at the moment is to get certified through my company, utilise the knowledge i gain from the CCNA, then eventually become CCNP certified in due time.

Once I?m on the brink of accomplishing my CCNP (do you like my positive thinking ), I would probably look at working for an ISP or something along those lines.

I m on a good wage with good benefits ATM, but I want more.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: T3C
Right now, .net developers are hot. And programming will always be a good way to go.

Very, very hot. VS.NET 2005 is very popular with mid sized companies.

Large companies still predominantly use C++/Java, but most of the major companies have projects in .NET to cover their bases.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: RichUK
CISCO, nuf said.

CISCO, Yahoo, and the like are all terrible. The fact that they supplied some pretty jacked up technology to China makes me not want anything to do with their systems.

Microsoft and other have done similar things, but Yahoo and CISCO are proactive in giving China technology that will equip them to crack down on free speech. Ridiculous.

 

[Cal166]

What are some good places to look for information and advice on IT careers?
-It all depends what you want to do. Look on Monster/hotjobs and see what company's are looking for, its a very good start on planning your future for college. While in College, take up an IT major and please take up a MINOR in BUSINESS. It will be helpful if you ever want to move into another field.

What are pros and cons of the field?
-cons: long hours, sometimes you will have to stay till you fixed the problem, 24/7 support and dealing with really stupid people.

Is the salary/work ratio good or bad?
-It all depends on the company and some companies are laid back and easy/friendly to work for. I have seen range from 30k-55k for a desktop support thru system admin.

What different fields in IT can I go into and which are best?
-Networking is the best IMHO, get the network stable and just sit back, relax and get paid...

What would be good things to learn over the next four years?
-Get an internship position, if not, learn how to take apart a computer and put it together. Install most commonly used business software and learn it as much as possible (MS office suite - outlook mainly, lotus notes, Active Directory, DNS, Services. Learn backup software such as Veritas BackupEXEC and the higher end version NETBACKUP.


Like someone above said:

Experience>MCSE>CCNA>Dogsh!t>A+


I was fortunate to have gotten a internship during my sophmore of HS. I stuck with the for company throughout HS and College(money earned from this company helped paid for most of my college tutition). I was with them for 8 years and I've learned a lot. After college I took 6months off and did absolutely nothing, got bored start looking for a new job, one day I received a call from a company, came in as an intern, work for 3 months and they were really impressed with what I can do and offered me a permanent position.

I like what I am doing and I barely get bore of what I am doing. If you are passionate about computers and helping people, then this is the field for you. Eventually it will pay off in the long run.